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Beyond the surge {MUST READ}
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 11/18/7 | Editor

Posted on 11/18/2007 1:18:25 PM PST by SmithL

President Bush's surge strategy is about to be put to the test.

Until now, all claims of failure or success were to be treated with caution. Too often they were theories infused with hope or pessimism - depending on one's view of the war - and political spin.

Bush's gamble was that a temporary infusion of 30,000 extra troops in and around Baghdad would provide a span of relative stability that would give the Iraqis the time - and confidence - to assume far more responsibility for their own security.

Supporters of the surge see cause for optimism. Violence has declined significantly in recent months. The 369 rocket and mortar attacks against U.S. troops in October compares with more than 1,000 such attacks in June. The 880 Iraqi deaths in October compares with almost 2,000 in January.

. . . We are about to find out.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; iraq; oif; patraeus; surge
All Americans, however, should hope that Bush's calculation about the surge was correct. If the drop in violence holds through the phaseout, then a path may be cleared for a bipartisan consensus to leave Iraq.

Bingo!

1 posted on 11/18/2007 1:18:27 PM PST by SmithL
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To: SmithL

We’ll still be in Iraq long after many of us are gone.


2 posted on 11/18/2007 1:26:38 PM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: SmithL
There's been just a little setback in Baghdad today.

Nothing too serious, but wanted to get that in before the media starts screeching and crowing about it.

3 posted on 11/18/2007 1:26:53 PM PST by Allegra (Greetings from a kinder, gentler Iraq. God bless US and Coalition Forces.)
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To: SmithL
Following major wars (or conflicts) to achieve goals:

Our armed forces have remained in Europe more than 60 years resulting in peace and prosperity

Our armed forces have remained in Japan more than 60 years resulting in peace and prosperity.

Our armed forces have remained in South Korea more than 50 years resulting in peace and prosperity.

Our armed forces must remain in Iraq for many years to have peace and prosperity in that part of the world.

4 posted on 11/18/2007 1:28:47 PM PST by elpadre
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To: Allegra

Care to elaborate?


5 posted on 11/18/2007 1:29:41 PM PST by Philistone (If someone tells you it's for the children, he believes that YOU are a child.)
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To: SmithL

The Government can now stabilize and give control to the leaders of various areas a place to meet and set a path for success.


6 posted on 11/18/2007 1:31:45 PM PST by eyedigress
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To: Allegra

?


7 posted on 11/18/2007 1:32:21 PM PST by eyedigress
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To: elpadre

How dare you talk sense! And how dare you cite historical facts. I’d probably not be surprised to read a poll of Americans who “favor withdrawal” from Europe. The only reason that continent hasn’t had a third World War yet is because of our continued presence there.


8 posted on 11/18/2007 1:33:09 PM PST by boop (Who doesn't love poison pot pies?)
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To: Philistone
Since the news isn't saying anything at this point, I should probably keep it zipped. That's been my policy---just to be on the safe side.

It's not anything unusual...for six months ago. Whoever is doing it, I feel confident the good guys will get 'em.

9 posted on 11/18/2007 1:33:53 PM PST by Allegra (Greetings from a kinder, gentler Iraq. God bless US and Coalition Forces.)
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To: Allegra

Please elaborate!


10 posted on 11/18/2007 1:34:27 PM PST by SolidWood ("I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.")
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To: Allegra

Got it.

Thanks for the heads up.


11 posted on 11/18/2007 1:34:37 PM PST by Philistone (If someone tells you it's for the children, he believes that YOU are a child.)
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To: Allegra
Since the news isn't saying anything at this point, I should probably keep it zipped.

Ok.

12 posted on 11/18/2007 1:36:06 PM PST by SolidWood ("I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.")
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To: SmithL
Count us among those who would like to see a far more aggressive timeline for bringing all the troops home from this disastrous war that has cost more than 3,800 U.S. lives, hundreds of billions of dollars and immeasurable U.S. stature in the world.

Failed to explain the turn around in Germany, France and the continued support of England, Canada and a whole slew of former Soviet Bloc countries.

SF fishwrap still living in a parallel universe.

13 posted on 11/18/2007 1:37:32 PM PST by BOBTHENAILER (One by one, in small groups or in whole armies, we don't care how we do it, but we're gonna getcha)
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To: SmithL
Bush's gamble was that a temporary infusion of 30,000 extra troops in and around Baghdad would provide a span of relative stability that would give the Iraqis the time - and confidence - to assume far more responsibility for their own security.

I'm not sure that's an accurate characterization of what the surge was about. I thought it was a shift away from "holding ground" to going on the offensive so as to leave no quarter for their enemies. Like a full-court press in basketball.

14 posted on 11/18/2007 1:39:43 PM PST by Puddleglum
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To: Philistone; SolidWood; eyedigress
I've give you a hint: BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!

I'm off to sleep now...

Hope and pray that today was just a hiccup. We're bound to get the little onesie-twosies once in a while, I suppose.

15 posted on 11/18/2007 1:40:23 PM PST by Allegra (Greetings from a kinder, gentler Iraq. God bless US and Coalition Forces.)
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To: elpadre

Please feel free to contribute my share of income taxes for the next 60 years to accomplish your goal (don’t forget to pick up the kids’ and grandkids’ tabs).

Besides, there is a logical fallacy in your statements. As though “peace and prosperity” wouldn’t have occurred in Japan or Europe, say, if the U.S military hadn’t left decades ago. The economic progress and internal peace has nothing to do with U.S. forces.


16 posted on 11/18/2007 1:41:26 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture )
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To: boop
The only reason that continent hasn’t had a third World War yet is because of our continued presence there.

Accurate from 1945 ro 1989.

Since then? Don't be silly. Who would the combatants be?

There is no logical reason for our continued military presence in Europe.

17 posted on 11/18/2007 1:43:36 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: steve86

Uhm... without US Forces in place, the Communists would have steamrolled over Europe and East Asia. And if there are two things lacking in communism it’s peace and prosperity.


18 posted on 11/18/2007 1:43:39 PM PST by SolidWood ("I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.")
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To: SmithL
The fallback positions are already being prepared in the media - note a "bipartisan consensus to leave Iraq" meaning that the Republicans may be represented as coming around to the Democrats' point of view. That may be how it is represented but it isn't how it happened.

The issue should never have been a partisan business to begin with - it didn't actually start that way - and if the Dems are scurrying back to "bipartisan" now it is because of a belated recognition of how an outright victory will make the quagmire hucksters appear. The latter made it partisan and will, if recent history is a guide, be permitted to avoid the consequences, an advantage conferred by their domination of the American media.

The international media are under no such constraint and will be able to bury the embarrassment in a flood of denial, misrepresentation, and misdirection after their usual fashion. American withdrawal from Iraq will be represented as a victory for the defeated insurgency and the crushed al-Qaeda. Many, probably most, of their readers, listeners, and viewers will believe it, and that will serve them poorly in their own upcoming fight against radical Islam. These things do have consequences even if they aren't immediately apparent.

And so the drumbeat for internationalism, collectivism, increased social control, and increased subordination to a bureaucratic class will continue, having been successfully defended by the very people it cursed. Parts of the world will survive the idiocy. Parts will not.

19 posted on 11/18/2007 1:44:19 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: SolidWood

Uhm...I said internal peace. LEARN TO READ.


20 posted on 11/18/2007 1:45:32 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture )
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To: Allegra

May God be with you. Good-Night.


21 posted on 11/18/2007 1:46:07 PM PST by eyedigress
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To: SmithL
The surge worked even better than I had hoped.
The Iraqi citizens have been so unsure if we would continue to support them against the terrorists in their towns and villages, that they laid low about these terrorists and their cache of weapons. (Helped by the MSM/democrats)
They now understand we are not throwing them out to dry, so they are turning over both terrorists and weapons.

This is the best sign since their vote!

22 posted on 11/18/2007 1:49:56 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran (Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto)
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To: SmithL
"Count us among those who would like to see a far more aggressive timeline for bringing all the troops home from this disastrous war that has cost more than 3,800 U.S. lives, hundreds of billions of dollars and immeasurable U.S. stature in the world."

It would just kill these fags to print something positive about our troops efforts without injecting their anti-war anti-American tripe.

23 posted on 11/18/2007 1:50:16 PM PST by 2111USMC
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To: Sherman Logan
"Since then? Don't be silly. Who would the combatants be?"

I still don't trust russia. And the wee problem of Islamicist influence in Europe.

24 posted on 11/18/2007 1:51:46 PM PST by boop (Who doesn't love poison pot pies?)
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To: boop

Russia does not presently have a military capable of invading Western Europe. They could destroy it with nukes, but not invade and conquer.

Islamist and Islamic influence in Europe is a huge problem, but it is within countries, not between them


25 posted on 11/18/2007 1:54:14 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Puddleglum

It also ignores the 10 IA Bdes formed/forming from the time the Surge was announced to the time it ends. Two for one replacement rate...


26 posted on 11/18/2007 1:55:21 PM PST by DJ Elliott
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To: steve86

Let’s just leave so your kids and grandkids can get killed “retaking the hill”.

How much will you be saving then?


27 posted on 11/18/2007 1:56:39 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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To: Philistone
This might be what Allegra was referring to. link

... "Today's mortar and rocket attacks demonstrate that the enemy has the capacity to wage violence."

There were believed to be casualties, but no deaths from Sunday's attacks, Smith said.

Al Jazeera's John Cookson reporting from Baghdad said Smith also told journalists about a number of car bombs found "primed and ready to go" in the north of Baghdad on Saturday.

Also on Sunday, a car bomb exploded by the convoy of a senior Iraqi finance ministry official in Baghdad's Karrada neighbourhood, killing at least five people and wounding nine more, security officials said.

Another car bomb killed three policemen in the city of Mosul, besides wounding 16 people.

28 posted on 11/18/2007 1:59:27 PM PST by Gumption
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To: Berlin_Freeper

You nailed ‘em. Check his homepage. Banned, zotted, terminated


29 posted on 11/18/2007 2:10:17 PM PST by BOBTHENAILER (One by one, in small groups or in whole armies, we don't care how we do it, but we're gonna getcha)
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To: Gumption
In the interest of equal time:

Title: COALITION FORCES TARGET AL-QAEDA NETWORKS; TWO TERRORISTS KILLED, 12 DETAINED

Release Date: 11/16/2007

Release Number: 07-01-03P

Description: BAGHDAD, Iraq – Coalition forces killed two terrorists and detained 12 suspects Friday during operations targeting terrorist networks in central and northern Iraq.

Coalition forces captured a wanted individual southeast of Baghdad during operations targeting foreign terrorist facilitators in the Southern Belt. Reports also indicate the individual was involved in planning attacks on coalition aircraft.

The ground force approached the target building and called for the occupants to come out, but the individuals did not comply.

One of the men was wearing a vest loaded with grenades. Perceiving hostile intent, the ground force engaged, killing two of the men. In addition to the wanted individual, Coalition forces detained three other suspects on site.

In other operations in Ramadi, Mosul and Kirkuk, Coalition Forces detained eight suspects while targeting associates of al-Qaeda in Iraq leaders and those believed to be involved in kidnappings, assassinations and small arms attacks against Iraqi police and Coalition forces.

“Iraqi and Coalition forces will continue targeting al-Qaeda to diminish their ability to attack Iraqis,” said Maj. Winfield Danielson, MNF-I spokesman.

30 posted on 11/18/2007 2:12:08 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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To: BOBTHENAILER

I wish I were *that* good.

He must have been a very baaaad boy.


31 posted on 11/18/2007 2:14:47 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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To: BOBTHENAILER

Sorry but it appears that his “zot” notice is about as authentic as his views..


32 posted on 11/18/2007 2:31:18 PM PST by rockrr (Global warming is to science what Islam is to religion)
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To: SmithL

IRAQ IS A SUCCESS

DEMOCRATS ARE THE FAILURES

(bumper sticker alert)


33 posted on 11/18/2007 2:35:35 PM PST by Edit35
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To: Allegra

So what’s your point? Sheesh.


34 posted on 11/18/2007 2:40:19 PM PST by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: rockrr; steve86
Sorry but it appears that his “zot” notice is about as authentic as his views..

You mean his homepage is his own fake?

I'm gonna turn in my super secret FR badge if I got duped by a troll.

35 posted on 11/18/2007 2:40:23 PM PST by BOBTHENAILER (One by one, in small groups or in whole armies, we don't care how we do it, but we're gonna getcha)
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To: Billthedrill
I may remember this wrong, but I remember some demorats and some RINOs getting on Bush and Rumsfeld because they wanted Troop levels to increase. Rumsfeld stood his ground and said he did not want to look like an occupier. He said he wanted to look like a liberator. Bush finally relieved Rumsfeld, placed Gates and Petraus in charge. And they implemented the surge.

But before the Surge was even in place, people like Scary Reid declared Al qeada victory. Oh, I am sorry, he said we lost the war. Code Pink and other Commie, far left, moonbat, freaks started chanting pull out now. So, a lot of idiot demooratic leaders started chanting the same.

If the demorats were smart, and we know they aint, they would have came out and said, we wanted a Troop increase and that is what fixed the problem. And then they could ask the American People for the honor to fight our enemy. But instead, it is in the demorats DNA to shoot themselves in the foot. And that is the only hope the spineless Republicans have.

I may be wrong, but I remember it this way.

36 posted on 11/18/2007 2:47:26 PM PST by do the dhue (They've got us surrounded again. The poor bastards. General Creighton Abrams)
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To: cll

I demand that we leave Iraq 60 years after we leave Germany!


37 posted on 11/18/2007 7:45:46 PM PST by Uncle Miltie (Mitt bit the apple. Hillary will stuff it down your throat!)
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