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Beyond the surge {MUST READ}
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 11/18/7 | Editor

Posted on 11/18/2007 1:18:25 PM PST by SmithL

President Bush's surge strategy is about to be put to the test.

Until now, all claims of failure or success were to be treated with caution. Too often they were theories infused with hope or pessimism - depending on one's view of the war - and political spin.

Bush's gamble was that a temporary infusion of 30,000 extra troops in and around Baghdad would provide a span of relative stability that would give the Iraqis the time - and confidence - to assume far more responsibility for their own security.

Supporters of the surge see cause for optimism. Violence has declined significantly in recent months. The 369 rocket and mortar attacks against U.S. troops in October compares with more than 1,000 such attacks in June. The 880 Iraqi deaths in October compares with almost 2,000 in January.

. . . We are about to find out.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bush; iraq; oif; patraeus; surge
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All Americans, however, should hope that Bush's calculation about the surge was correct. If the drop in violence holds through the phaseout, then a path may be cleared for a bipartisan consensus to leave Iraq.

Bingo!

1 posted on 11/18/2007 1:18:27 PM PST by SmithL
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To: SmithL

We’ll still be in Iraq long after many of us are gone.


2 posted on 11/18/2007 1:26:38 PM PST by cll (Carthage must be destroyed)
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To: SmithL
There's been just a little setback in Baghdad today.

Nothing too serious, but wanted to get that in before the media starts screeching and crowing about it.

3 posted on 11/18/2007 1:26:53 PM PST by Allegra (Greetings from a kinder, gentler Iraq. God bless US and Coalition Forces.)
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To: SmithL
Following major wars (or conflicts) to achieve goals:

Our armed forces have remained in Europe more than 60 years resulting in peace and prosperity

Our armed forces have remained in Japan more than 60 years resulting in peace and prosperity.

Our armed forces have remained in South Korea more than 50 years resulting in peace and prosperity.

Our armed forces must remain in Iraq for many years to have peace and prosperity in that part of the world.

4 posted on 11/18/2007 1:28:47 PM PST by elpadre
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To: Allegra

Care to elaborate?


5 posted on 11/18/2007 1:29:41 PM PST by Philistone (If someone tells you it's for the children, he believes that YOU are a child.)
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To: SmithL

The Government can now stabilize and give control to the leaders of various areas a place to meet and set a path for success.


6 posted on 11/18/2007 1:31:45 PM PST by eyedigress
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To: Allegra

?


7 posted on 11/18/2007 1:32:21 PM PST by eyedigress
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To: elpadre

How dare you talk sense! And how dare you cite historical facts. I’d probably not be surprised to read a poll of Americans who “favor withdrawal” from Europe. The only reason that continent hasn’t had a third World War yet is because of our continued presence there.


8 posted on 11/18/2007 1:33:09 PM PST by boop (Who doesn't love poison pot pies?)
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To: Philistone
Since the news isn't saying anything at this point, I should probably keep it zipped. That's been my policy---just to be on the safe side.

It's not anything unusual...for six months ago. Whoever is doing it, I feel confident the good guys will get 'em.

9 posted on 11/18/2007 1:33:53 PM PST by Allegra (Greetings from a kinder, gentler Iraq. God bless US and Coalition Forces.)
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To: Allegra

Please elaborate!


10 posted on 11/18/2007 1:34:27 PM PST by SolidWood ("I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.")
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To: Allegra

Got it.

Thanks for the heads up.


11 posted on 11/18/2007 1:34:37 PM PST by Philistone (If someone tells you it's for the children, he believes that YOU are a child.)
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To: Allegra
Since the news isn't saying anything at this point, I should probably keep it zipped.

Ok.

12 posted on 11/18/2007 1:36:06 PM PST by SolidWood ("I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.")
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To: SmithL
Count us among those who would like to see a far more aggressive timeline for bringing all the troops home from this disastrous war that has cost more than 3,800 U.S. lives, hundreds of billions of dollars and immeasurable U.S. stature in the world.

Failed to explain the turn around in Germany, France and the continued support of England, Canada and a whole slew of former Soviet Bloc countries.

SF fishwrap still living in a parallel universe.

13 posted on 11/18/2007 1:37:32 PM PST by BOBTHENAILER (One by one, in small groups or in whole armies, we don't care how we do it, but we're gonna getcha)
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To: SmithL
Bush's gamble was that a temporary infusion of 30,000 extra troops in and around Baghdad would provide a span of relative stability that would give the Iraqis the time - and confidence - to assume far more responsibility for their own security.

I'm not sure that's an accurate characterization of what the surge was about. I thought it was a shift away from "holding ground" to going on the offensive so as to leave no quarter for their enemies. Like a full-court press in basketball.

14 posted on 11/18/2007 1:39:43 PM PST by Puddleglum
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To: Philistone; SolidWood; eyedigress
I've give you a hint: BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!

I'm off to sleep now...

Hope and pray that today was just a hiccup. We're bound to get the little onesie-twosies once in a while, I suppose.

15 posted on 11/18/2007 1:40:23 PM PST by Allegra (Greetings from a kinder, gentler Iraq. God bless US and Coalition Forces.)
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To: elpadre

Please feel free to contribute my share of income taxes for the next 60 years to accomplish your goal (don’t forget to pick up the kids’ and grandkids’ tabs).

Besides, there is a logical fallacy in your statements. As though “peace and prosperity” wouldn’t have occurred in Japan or Europe, say, if the U.S military hadn’t left decades ago. The economic progress and internal peace has nothing to do with U.S. forces.


16 posted on 11/18/2007 1:41:26 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture )
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To: boop
The only reason that continent hasn’t had a third World War yet is because of our continued presence there.

Accurate from 1945 ro 1989.

Since then? Don't be silly. Who would the combatants be?

There is no logical reason for our continued military presence in Europe.

17 posted on 11/18/2007 1:43:36 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: steve86

Uhm... without US Forces in place, the Communists would have steamrolled over Europe and East Asia. And if there are two things lacking in communism it’s peace and prosperity.


18 posted on 11/18/2007 1:43:39 PM PST by SolidWood ("I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.")
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To: SmithL
The fallback positions are already being prepared in the media - note a "bipartisan consensus to leave Iraq" meaning that the Republicans may be represented as coming around to the Democrats' point of view. That may be how it is represented but it isn't how it happened.

The issue should never have been a partisan business to begin with - it didn't actually start that way - and if the Dems are scurrying back to "bipartisan" now it is because of a belated recognition of how an outright victory will make the quagmire hucksters appear. The latter made it partisan and will, if recent history is a guide, be permitted to avoid the consequences, an advantage conferred by their domination of the American media.

The international media are under no such constraint and will be able to bury the embarrassment in a flood of denial, misrepresentation, and misdirection after their usual fashion. American withdrawal from Iraq will be represented as a victory for the defeated insurgency and the crushed al-Qaeda. Many, probably most, of their readers, listeners, and viewers will believe it, and that will serve them poorly in their own upcoming fight against radical Islam. These things do have consequences even if they aren't immediately apparent.

And so the drumbeat for internationalism, collectivism, increased social control, and increased subordination to a bureaucratic class will continue, having been successfully defended by the very people it cursed. Parts of the world will survive the idiocy. Parts will not.

19 posted on 11/18/2007 1:44:19 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: SolidWood

Uhm...I said internal peace. LEARN TO READ.


20 posted on 11/18/2007 1:45:32 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture )
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