Posted on 11/19/2007 10:09:26 AM PST by BnBlFlag
Yep.
‘...gave in to political appointments for combat units with disasterous results.’
‘As did Lincoln, to be fair.’
While thats true, it has nothing to do with this. And Lincoln finally learned better. Davis didn’t, he just knew if he kept Bragg or Polk in command, he was running the risk of having bonafide officers like Longstreet resign, or Bedford Forrest, just to name two of many.
Well, you’re just doing the usual “the side that wins gets to pick the heroes” routine. I’d place Lee over Davis because he was the more gallant and competent figure, but this constant Confederacy bashing is wrong and it’ll someday backfire bigtime on the PC Cons (Politically Correct conservatives) who join with the radical lefties in trying to bury any positive memory of the South’s forces. The anti-Dixie crusade, launched about fifteen years ago by leftist senators led by Carole Moseley-Braun, is just a warm up for a future purge of the Founding Fathers.
(1) The South never had a chance at winning the war - the secession and the initiation of hostilities were two of the most colossally avoidable blunders in US history.
(2) The South's cause was not only legally flawed and morally indefensible, but its supporters at the time endeavored to misrepresent it from the very beginning.
(3) If the impossible happened and the Confederacy had managed to live for any length of time, it would have had devastating effects on the South, the North and strengthened America's traditional enemies immeasurably.
The victory of the Union was ultimately to the benefit of all the states and their people.
No American who knows his history can give unqualified praise to the Confederacy.
The same Story who said:
" The constitution of the United States, then, forms a government, not a league; and whether it be formed by compact between the states or in any other manner, its character is the same. It is a government, in which all the people are represented, which operates directly on the people individually, not upon the states; they retained all the power they did not grant. But each state having expressly parted with so many powers, as to constitute jointly with the other states a single nation, cannot from that period possess any right to secede, because such secession does not break a league, but destroys the unity of a nation; and any injury to that unity is not only a breach, which would result from the contravention of a compact; but it is an offence against the whole Union To say, that any state may at pleasure secede from the Union, is to say, that the United States were not a nation; because it would be a solecism to contend, that any part or a nation might dissolve its connexion with the other parts, to their injury or ruin, without committing any offence. Secession, like any other revolutionary act, may be morally justified by the extremity of oppression; but to call it a constitutional right, is confounding the meaning of terms; and can only be done through gross error, or to deceive those, who are willing to assert a right, but would pause before 'they made a revolution, or incur the penalties consequent on a failure."
You're probably thinking of William Rawle, whose book did allow for the possiblity of secession, and which was used for one year (1826) at West Point.
“I thought in the PBS Special Civil War said while imprisoned at Fort Monroe he was basically an outcast and died later after being released without many friends”.
Never believe anything you hear on PBS. (Radio or TV)
Here is the story of Davis’ “Second Funeral” when his Body was moved to Richmond to his final resting place as an example as to the esteem for which he was held not only in the South, but in the rest of the Country as well:
Jefferson Davis’ Funeral Train to Richmond
June 3, 2003 marked the 195th birthday of American Icon and Hero, Jefferson Davis.
The following was contributed by Calvin E. Johnson, Jr. Kennesaw, Georgia
There is a highway that begins in Washington, D.C. and runs through Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California and Oregon. Some call it the largest monument to an American.
That highway is the Jefferson Davis Highway, a memorial to a man who graduated from West Point Military Academy, served in the United States Army, was elected as United States Senator and the Confederate States of America’s first and only President-1861-1865.
This story is about a man who served his God, his family and his country. This is about the strong love the people of the South had for a man who never asked anything for himself, but was always ready to help his fellow man.
Jefferson Davis was born on June 3, 1808, in Christian County (now Todd), Kentucky. He died at the home of a friend in New Orleans, Louisiana on December 6, 1889, from severe bronchitis, complicated by malaria.
The funeral of Jefferson Davis was no simple affair. Two hundred thousand attended the services at Metairie Cemetery in New Orleans. He was laid to rest in a temporary tomb of the Army of Northern Virginia.
The events of May 29, 1893, would overshadow all other news events covered by Dixie’s Newspapers. It was the day the mortal remains of Jefferson Davis were removed from Metairie Cemetery, placed in a new casket and taken to Confederate Memorial Hall to again lay in state. On the evening of May 29, 1893, Davis’ funeral procession started toward the New Orleans railroad station where train Engineer Frank Coffin and his locomotive would start the 1,200 mile trip to Richmond, Virginia. Davis would be re-interred at Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond.
Mrs. Jefferson (Varina) Davis began three years previous to secure a special funeral train and military escort. The train was No. 69 of the Louisville and Nashville Railroad and the Conductor was George Crammer. Davis’ body was placed on a catafalque inside a converted observation car. The windows of the car were removed so the people could view the casket. The crowd was so huge that the funeral procession had a difficult time getting to the train station. The L & N train No. 69 pulled out of New Orleans at midnight.
Uncle Bob Brown, a former servant of the Davis family and a passenger on the train, saw the many flowers that children had laid on the side of the railroad tracks. Brown was so moved by this beautiful gesture that he wept uncontrollably.
The train stopped near Gulfport, Mississippi at Beauvoir which was the last home of Jefferson Davis. In Mobile, Alabama the train was met by a thousand mourners and the Alabama Artillery fired a 21-gun salute. Locomotive No. 25 was also added with C.C. Dewinney as Engineer and Warren Robinson as Fireman. In Montgomery church bells rang as a caisson carried Davis to the Alabama Capitol. A procession carried the casket through the portico where Jefferson Davis had taken the oath of office as President of the Confederacy. The casket was placed in front of the bench of the Alabama Supreme Court room. Above the right exit of the room was a banner with the word ‘Monterey’ and above the left exit was a banner with the words ‘Buena Vista.’ The significance of these words were that Jefferson Davis was a hero at Monterey and wounded at Buena Vista in the War with Mexico.
The train continued to the Georgia State line going through West Point, LaGrange and finally pulling into Union Station in Atlanta. A caisson carried the Southern Leaders body to the Georgia Capitol and there laid in state.
The Jefferson Davis Funeral Train continued through South Carolina, Raleigh, North Carolina and in Danville, Virginia a large throng gathered around the train and the people sang,” Nearer My God To Thee” as city church bells tolled.
Finally the train reached Richmond, Virginia. On Wednesday, May 31, 1893, in the morning, and Mrs. Alberta Lee Thompson described it best as follows: “On Arriving in Richmond on Wednesday morning, May 31, the body lay in state in the Virginia capitol building until final rites in the cemetery in the afternoon. With Mrs. Davis were her two daughters, Winnie and Margaret (Mrs. J. Addison Hayes) and Mr. Hayes. Six state governors acted as pallbearers. Thousands attended the service in Hollywood Cemetery, including Confederate military leaders and privates, where with the Presidential twenty-one gun salute the beloved leader was laid to final rest.”
Lest we forget those who helped make America great!
Jefferson Davis
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I’m a Republican. Jefferson Davis is a Democrat. Naturally I don’t like him.
Very little worth telling.
For the most part he was treated far better than Union POWs were treated in the South.
If yu want to be a great statesman or military leader, it helps if your armies win their battles. Chance always plays a role. But for the discovery of orders wrapped around some cigars, McClellan would never had cornered Lee at Antietam.
Hey, we finally got one! See post #16.
How the Union treated him while he was there for two years is one of the uglier post Civil War incidents you’ll never read about in any highschool history book.
‘For the most part he was treated far better than Union POWs were treated in the South.’
Irrelevant.
He was never tried for treason — because there were no grounds for such an action.
If not for McClellan, Lee would have been destroyed completely and utterly during the Peninsula campaign, or at Antietam.
It was Grant’s decision to stop the exchange of prisoners that led to the pile up of prisoners in places like Andersonville. Northern prisons were no resorts either.
I think you're confusing Joseph Story with William Rawle, and Rawle's book wasn't written when Davis was at West Point.
That’s your loss.
Using federal troops to make war on States which had voluntarily and peaceably seceded from the Union. Article VI, Sect. 2 does not negate secession - the actual text of the section merely states that Federal laws and treaties trump State laws which might conflict, and that State officials are bound to enforce those laws - the unspoken assumption, at least for the Founders, would have been that this is limited to areas in which the federal Constitution gave specific competency to the federal government to make laws and conduct policy. This says nothing about denying States the option of secession (thus reversing the accession they previously made), and in fact, before the Civil War, secession was recognised right of the States (and not just by John C. Calhoun, either). The danger of secession was not that it was unconstitutional, but that it would weaken the union and make the parts more susceptible to foreign influence (a primary cause of the drive for federacy in the first place, per the Federalist Papers). Other sections had threatened secession before the South - There were several prominent statesmen in New England who advocated it as early as the 1790s, but never acted on it. IIRC, the "Northwest" (what we'd now call the "Upper Midwest") also flirted with the idea for a while. In all cases, secession was basically grounded in perceived economic interests. New England wanted supports for its manufactured and shipping that the other sections weren't that keen on giving. The Northwest wanted policies that would grant freer access to the Ohio and Missouri Rivers, which was often opposed by shippers in coastal States. The South wanted free trade to promote the sale of its agricultural products, which the tariff-loving North didn't want. Slavery, while being one of many issues, was NOT as much of a driving force as our pabulum-fed school kids are taught today to believe.
Further, Lincoln's mobilisation of forces to move against the States was unconstitutional and hypocritical (since he believed they were still, or should be, in the Union) because of Article 4, Sect. 4,
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.
It's a little hard to protect States you believe to still be in the union when you are actively invading them, and are doing so because they don't want to be part of that union anymore (i.e. they certainly aren't asking you for "protection from domestic violence").
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