Rendell puts gun divide to the test (PA)

Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | Nov. 18, 2007 | Thomas Fitzgerald and Amy Worden

[neverdem]

"This does not break down on partisan lines. It's rural vs. urban," an observer said. A showdown comes Tuesday.

Gun-control bills have tended to die obscurely in the halls of the Pennsylvania Capitol, rarely requiring a legislator to cast a recorded vote. The popularity of hunting in the state, and the lobbying power of the National Rifle Association, taught legislative leaders not to bother.

This week, Gov. Rendell will force a public reckoning.

In a highly unusual move, the governor plans to testify Tuesday before the House Judiciary Committee to urge passage of three bills, including one - to limit handgun purchases to one a month - that has languished for a year. The committee chairman, Thomas Caltagirone (D., Berks), agreed to schedule votes the same day - this after a call from the governor.

Despite Rendell's gambit and a wave of gun crimes in Philadelphia and smaller cities, longtime political pros say committee passage of the bills is iffy - and approval by the full House and the Senate even less likely.

"Rendell is fighting a series of political and cultural forces in this state," said pollster Terry Madonna of Franklin and Marshall College.

An angry Rendell, clenching his teeth and pounding the lectern so hard it rocked, on Friday implored lawmakers to take guns out of the hands of thugs to protect citizens and police. The governor's passionate outburst came on the heels of the murder of Philadelphia Officer Chuck Cassidy.

"How much will it take? What does the toll have to be before we do anything?" Rendell said during a news conference. He noted that two more Philadelphia police officers had been wounded by gunmen since Nov. 9, the date he proposed a mandatory 20-year sentence for shooting at a police officer.

"We have a problem," Rendell said, pausing. "Houston, we have a problem."

Advocates say they hope Tuesday's spectacle - and the committee votes to follow - will put pressure on lawmakers who have opposed handgun-control measures despite polls showing that majorities of their constituents support the bills.

If ever there was a time for the governor and his allies to push, it is now, with Philadelphia facing a series of fatal shootings and other cities in the state struggling with gun violence.

In addition to one-gun-a-month, the package includes a measure that would allow municipalities to enact their own gun laws. Philadelphia City Council passed a far-reaching package of gun-control bills, but cannot enforce them.

A third bill would require people to report lost or stolen guns to the police, and create a state police database to track the guns.

The House defeated similar versions of all three bills last fall during a symbolic special session on gun violence, with none of the votes officially recorded.

The stolen-guns bill, perhaps the least controversial of the three, did come up for a rare recorded vote in the Judiciary Committee on June 27 - and was defeated, 17-11, with five of Rendell's fellow Democrats joining Republicans to oppose it.

That illustrates the political difficulties.

"This does not break down on partisan lines. It's rural vs. urban, and Democrats have a strong rural base in the southwest and northeast," Madonna said.

Democratic media consultant Larry Ceisler, a Philadelphian who grew up in rural southwestern Pennsylvania, agreed that the politics are tough but noted that Rendell had some leverage.

"The fact is legislative hearings in Harrisburg don't usually make the 6 and 11 o'clock news, but this one will," Ceisler said. Ultimately, though, "it's a campaign, and there's going to have to be a lot of grassroots work" to win acceptance of gun control in Pennsylvania, he said.

"In the end, it won't have the votes to pass," said Jeff Coleman, a former Republican legislator and now a political consultant. "It will end up being a terrific fund-raising tool for Republicans in rural areas running for reelection, and it will do the same thing for Gov. Rendell in his attempts to widen the Democratic majority in the House."

A poll done in six legislative districts for CeaseFire PA found that constituents favored one-gun-a-month legislation by a 2-1 ratio, said Phil Goldsmith, president of the gun-control group.

"At some point in time, these legislators are going to have to worry what their constituents think," he said.

Steve Miskin, a spokesman for the House GOP, said there was little sentiment in his caucus for more legislation on guns.

"The way we look at it, the governor's got a bully pulpit, and if he would spend even half the time enforcing the laws already on the books . . . we'd be further along," Miskin said.

Rendell said that was just "propaganda" from the NRA.

"The prisons are bulging. Don't tell me enforcement's the problem," he said. Limiting sales of handguns is imperative, Rendell said, because "a high percentage of crime guns are purchased by people other than the actor."

He said he was not certain any of the bills would make it out of committee.

"If we didn't do this, we wouldn't be in any better shape than we are now. If I try and fail, we're not in any worse shape," he said. "This is not a game. It doesn't matter whether I succeed or fail. . . . It sure matters to people out there."

Contact staff writer Thomas Fitzgerald at 215-854-2718 or tfitzgerald@phillynews.com.

[neverdem]

BANG! Dhimwits go for it again.

[2banana]

An angry Rendell, clenching his teeth and pounding the lectern so hard it rocked, on Friday implored lawmakers to take guns out of the hands of thugs to protect citizens and police. The governor's passionate outburst came on the heels of the murder of Philadelphia Officer Chuck Cassidy.

BTW - this was a teenage (illegal to have a gun) who took his mom's gun. The mom had a gun because she works for the correction department (ie - it was a government gun).

So, in the end, none of these would have help at all...

[stevio]

Bump!

[Racer1]

Is there anyone who really believes that this will take one gun from a crook? Not this person. Rendell is a joke.

[philsfan24]

i knew it was only a matter of time before rendell and his crew would use officer cassidy to push their gun control agenda. 2010 cant come quick enough.

[SWAMPSNIPER]

It isn’t a rural vs urban thing, it is American Liberty vs the barbarians. The solution is simple, but it might be a little messy!

[neverdem]

Thanks for the details.

[trimom]

I live in the part of Pennsylvania between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, a huge expanse that people think of as Pennsyltucky.

They can pass all the bills and laws they want. They won’t get the guns out of here.

[Myrddin]

The "one gun a month" laws are just stupid. Most people don't have enough disposable income to buy more than one a month anyway. It only hurts people who want to buy a set of guns with consecutive serial numbers for a collection.

The VA Tech shooter was limited to one gun a month. His crime was planned well in advance. He turned loose within a couple days after acquiring the 2nd gun following the 30 day window. The limitation does nothing except annoy a few select collectors.

[Apple Blossom]

ping.

[ArrogantBustard]

An angry Rendell, clenching his teeth and pounding the lectern so hard it rocked, shouted "WE WILL BURY YOU!!!!!!!"

[goldstategop]

Fast Eddie doesn't understand its not gun owners that murder police officers. Its the criminals who do. He should be advocating the latter be locked up. But that is odds with the felon voter base of today's Democratic Party.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Kid Shelleen]

he was also wanted on an arrest warrant and had been seen in the neighborhood regularly..

[Tallguy]

Poor Eddy! First governor born without a brain.

[bmwcyle]

Fast Eddie is afraid of being shot by a PA gun owner and as all corrupt politicians fear.

[pabianice]

psychosis [sy.KO.sis] (n).

“The inability to distinguish between what is real and what is imaginary. Psychosis is a term used to describe a severe mental illness. Psychotics are characterized by a variety of symptoms that most people consider abnormal. These include experiencing delusions, such as the notion that one is being persecuted or conspired against. Psychotics may see things which don't actually exist and hear Voices (i.e. God) when no one is around. They often exhibit compulsive, irrational, ritualized behavior, esp. when such behavior serves no purpose or is even harmful or disruptive to those around them. They show no concern for others but may exhibit total self-centered behavior. Includes sociopathy, schizophrenia.”

DSM-IV

“22,310 gun laws is not enough! We won’t stop this senseless violence until we have 22, 311 gun laws! And a GPS installed in every gun! And we hang everyone who buys more than one gun a year! And we let convicted Level III sex offenders vote! I am the Walrus, Ko Ko Katchoo!”

[robertpaulsen]

"the package includes a measure that would allow municipalities to enact their own gun laws."

I think they mean, "the package includes a measure that would allow municipalities to enact their own gun control laws."

I do NOT think they mean, "the package includes a measure that would allow municipalities to enact their own gun laws allowing concealed carry and automatic weapons."

[Iron Munro]

"This does not break down on partisan lines. It's rural vs. urban," an observer said."

Right!!!

I think we all know the identity of many of the urban gun lovers and what kind of prey they hunt.

Urban Sportsman At Work

[linn37]

Nice timing,right in the midst of the fall hunting season. That will piss alot of gun owners off .

[Bob]

Limiting sales of handguns is imperative, Rendell said, because "a high percentage of crime guns are purchased by people other than the actor."

Excuse me, Mr. Governor -- That is known as a 'straw purchase' and is already illegal. Are you proposing to make it doubly illegal or do you just want to impede law-abiding citizens from buying guns as they see fit?

[Dahoser]

"How much will it take? What does the toll have to be before we do anything?" Rendell said during a news conference. He noted that two more Philadelphia police officers had been wounded by gunmen since Nov. 9, the date he proposed a mandatory 20-year sentence for shooting at a police officer.

"We have a problem," Rendell said, pausing. "Houston, we have a problem."

No, Fast Eddie, your problem has zip to do with Houston, it's in Philly. City Hall to be exact where John Street has done his criminal best to destroy the city.

[Dead Corpse]

Victim disarmament laws to not PROTECT victims. It is past due time morons like this get sent a message.

[Safetgiver]

Philly is a quagmire. More people are killed there than in Baghdad. We must surrender. Better yet, give it to Delaware.

[MSF BU]

Hmmmmmm, how did a photo of draftdodgingTomMenino get into a thread regarding Pennsylvania? Has the little salami been traveling?

[woollyone]

FWIW and speaking of straw purchases...

What do these statists consider NOT a straw purchase?
IOW, in their minds, how many years/months/weeks/days must elapse between the new purchase and the private sale in order for a private sale to NOT be considered a “straw” purchase? Because depending upon that time span, ANY private sale could randomly be termed a straw sale!

Inquiring minds wanna know!

...and BTW...purchasing a straw?
...that ain’t a gun!
...that’s a spitball tube!

[Stentor]

Philly is a quagmire. More people are killed there than in Baghdad. We must surrender. Better yet, give it to Delaware.

I'm waiting for Nutter and Ramsey to clean up the city. I'm certainly not going to be holding my breath.

[HKMk23]

"We have a problem," Rendell said...

To quote one of my favorite movie one-liners,

"What's this 'we' s#!+, white man??"

"We" ain't got no problem, Eddie; YOU'VE got a problem.

It's called "LIBERALISM", and it's all in your head.

"We" don't need another gun control law; YOU need a one-way ticket into the "HAS BIN" of history.

THAT'S the direct solution to this issue.

[PapaBear3625]

The "one gun a month" laws are just stupid. Most people don't have enough disposable income to buy more than one a month anyway. It only hurts people who want to buy a set of guns with consecutive serial numbers for a collection.

In order for the law to work, the state needs to have a centralized computer registry of gun purchases, so that they can tell if a particular person has purchased a gun within the last 30 days. Naturally, records will NOT be purged after 30 days

The central gun registry is the real reason for the law

[Reagan is King]

Gun control is kind of like communism. It’s never worked anywhere it’s been tried but they just keep trying anyway. Please boot Rendell out of office at the next opportunity.

[Bob]

What do these statists consider NOT a straw purchase?

IOW, in their minds, how many years/months/weeks/days must elapse between the new purchase and the private sale in order for a private sale to NOT be considered a “straw” purchase? Because depending upon that time span, ANY private sale could randomly be termed a straw sale!

I really don't know. There must be some delineation, although I've never seen it defined. Perhaps it comes down to 'intent', which is very hard to prove.

If I bought a gun this morning and sell it to someone this afternoon, I'd expect that transaction would be considered a suspected straw purchase. On the other hand, if I bought it last year, used it, and then sold it, I would expect that the suspicion of a straw purchase would be much less.

[oldfart]

Well, for the government to make that distinction they’ll just have to keep track of every private sale too. Get ready for Kaliforniastan-type laws!

[woollyone]

yep.
I agree that intent is probably the operative determination.

[Archon of the East]

Illiberalism creates the culture for violence then demands the relinquishment of rights as the solution.

[infidel29]

Mr. Rendell, the PA Constitution is very clear in regards to gun ownership in the state. You can look it up on the internet, you know, the internet? Al Gore invented it? Anyways it states:
"The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."

Further attempts to infringe upon Pennsylvania residents' rights should be viewed as a violation of the Constitution and your oath of office.

[brazzaville]

Good afternoon.
“Rendell is a joke.”

Jokes are funny, supposedly. Rendell is a humorless tyrant who wants to get rid of the 2nd Amendment because it is there to defend us from people like him.

Michael Frazier

[paul51]

"At some point in time, these legislators are going to have to worry what their constituents think," he said.

and hopefully the constituents aren't thinking that disarming responsible law abiding citizens is going to do any good at all. Throw this fool out of office is what they should be thinking

[SatinDoll]

“How much will it take? What does the toll have to be before we do anything?” Rendell said...”

It ain’t the guns, silly. It’s the people using the guns who needs to be controlled.

[stevie_d_64]

What a bunch of idiots...

Its all crocodile tears exploiting the death of a Law Enforcement officer...

He doesn’t give a rats about that...

But...Some people keep voting for these numbnuts...sigh...

[Nextrush]

People in Philly, his home base politically, are up to here with crime and Ed Rendell has to “remind” them what the “cause” is.

Besides that, the PA Attorney General is pushing an issue of his own, the Democrats in the State House of Representatives handed out 1.9 million dollars in bonuses to their employees last year.

It turns out the employees took a lot of days off from working in Harrisburg to travel around the state to work for political campaigns.

The appearance is that the Democrat House leaders gave out the bonuses as pay for campaign work. That’s illegal under state law.

A grand jury has been hearing testimony from the legislative staff and some Dem staffers have already left their positions because of the investigation.

[ZULU]

“Rendell is fighting a series of political and cultural forces in this state,”

Yes. Its called AMERICANISM.

Rendell should tell his political buddies in the cities to tell THEIR constituents to keep their rockets in their pockets unless they are willing to accept the responsibility of any of the results of their indoor “sport” within the bounds of marriage in a two parent family. THAT would go further than these un-American, un-Constitutional Laws.

[Erik Latranyi]

This is liberalism at work.

First, the city of Philadelphia has never elected a conservative in the last 150 years. The police are hamstrung and the criminals have free reign.

Now they use crocodile tears for dead police officers (liberals prefer dead police officers over enacting the death penalty for criminals) as a lever to deconstruct pre-emption.

Pre-emption prevents liberal cities like Philadelphia from enacting their own gun control laws. This is crucial to a state where concealed carry is widespread among the rural population (where crime is low) and a simple incursion through a city with strict gun control could bring a jail sentence.

Of course, this is what liberals want. Honest concealed carry citizens arrested in Philadelphia and having their firearm privileges revoked for daring to drive through a warzone protected.

[Roklok]

Pennsylvania already has a gun registry. The State Police will deny it, but it exists.

[Lions Gate]

If Gov. Rendell would bother to look at crime statistics from concealed and open carry states he would notice that the violent crime rates are much lower.

When citizens are armed, criminals fear being shot and killed. When citizens are disarmed, criminals have nothing to fear.

This just tells you yet again how foolish, weak, and pathetic the liberal viewpoints truly are.

[PapaBear3625]

When citizens are armed, criminals fear being shot and killed. When citizens are disarmed, criminals have nothing to fear.

Rendell understands perfectly. It's just that the people who voted him into office come disproportionately from the segment of the population that would be in increased fear of getting shot, plus their relatives

[PapaBear3625]

If I bought a gun this morning and sell it to someone this afternoon, I'd expect that transaction would be considered a suspected straw purchase. On the other hand, if I bought it last year, used it, and then sold it, I would expect that the suspicion of a straw purchase would be much less.

For handguns these days, there are no private sales (at least in PA). You must perform the transaction either through a licensed dealer or through the sheriff's office, to get the Brady check done on the buyer. I was told by the Sheriff's office that I must do this even to transfer a handgun to my own (adult) daughter

[Bob]

For handguns these days, there are no private sales (at least in PA). You must perform the transaction either through a licensed dealer or through the sheriff's office, to get the Brady check done on the buyer. I was told by the Sheriff's office that I must do this even to transfer a handgun to my own (adult) daughter

I believe that's the case here in California as well.

[samm1148]

“An angry Rendell, clenching his teeth and pounding the lectern so hard it rocked, on Friday implored lawmakers to take guns out of the hands of thugs to protect citizens and police. The governor’s passionate outburst came on the heels of the murder of Philadelphia Officer Chuck Cassidy.”

Then go to PHILADELPHIA and PITTSBURGH and get the guns governor. Taking guns away from law abiding citizens in Juniata or Perry County is just a straw man. You aren’t dealing one wit with crime. Rendell is another supporter or criminals just like the rest of the gun control crew. There are the democrats you Pennsylvanians voted in: Supporters of mobsters and drug dealers all.

[School of Rational Thought]

In addition to one-gun-a-month, the package includes a measure that would allow municipalities to enact their own gun laws. Philadelphia City Council passed a far-reaching package of gun-control bills, but cannot enforce them Like the ghost riders of antibellum south, today's gun controllers are targeting the civil liberties of African Americans. Redlining of geographic areas with high African American populations is thinly veiled redlining based on race.

[TXnMA]

"The prisons are bulging. Don't tell me enforcement's the problem,"

Apparently not "bulging" enough -- since you still have a bunch of gun-toting criminals running loose.

So... your answer is to create additional "criminal" classes (by criminalizing behavior that is now legal) instead of capturing and incarcerating those who have already demonstrated that they are criminals...

Rendell: DUmmie logic at its most DUmmified...