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The Crash of 2008?
The American Cause ^ | November 16 , 2007 | Patrick Buchanan

Posted on 11/20/2007 11:28:46 AM PST by fweingart

In March 1929, the Harding-Coolidge era came to an end. The eight years had witnessed the greatest peacetime prosperity of any nation in history: America in the Roaring Twenties. Early that March, Calvin Coolidge handed the presidency over to Herbert Hoover, who had just pulled off a third straight Republican landslide.

"I do not choose to run," said Coolidge, who could easily have won a second full term. Silent Cal went home. Hoover, whom he privately derided as "Wonder Boy," presided over the Crash of '29 and the first three years of the Great Depression.

History holds Harding, Coolidge and Hoover responsible for the Depression, with Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon, and Reed Smoot and Willis Hawley of Smoot-Hawley fame, as accessories. As Voltaire observed, history is a pack of lies agreed upon.

Two men debunked the myth that the low-tax, high-tariff policy of the 1920s brought on the Depression. The more famous is Milton Friedman, who proved to the satisfaction of a Nobel Prize committee that the Depression was a monetary phenomenon. The Fed had opened the sluices, and the money had swamped the stock market.

When Wall Street crashed, there came a run on the banks by men who had bought on margin, a depositors' stampede, a bank collapse, a wipeout of uninsured savings and the loss of a third of the money supply, lifeblood of the economy. The Fed never gave the nation the needed transfusions. Hoover and FDR, misdiagnosing the crisis, raised taxes and wrote up new regulations, which was like putting a body cast on a patient in shock from the loss of a third of his blood

The Smoot-Hawley myth, repeated by John McCain in the Detroit debate, was demolished by Alfred Eckes of Ohio University, Reagan's man at the FTC and America's foremost authority on the history of trade and tariffs, in his 1995 "Opening America's Markets."

The point of this brief history: The recent hand-off from Alan Greenspan, the maestro of the Global Economy, to Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke may turn out to have been a lateral far behind the line of scrimmage, leaving Bernanke holding the bag for a recession for which he is no more responsible than was the hapless Hoover.

Last week, the stock market saw 4 percent of its value wiped out. Oil reached nearly $100 a barrel. The dollar fell to record lows against the Canadian dollar and the euro. The price of gold was $850 an ounce, signaling inflation and a worldwide lack of confidence in the Fed's ability or determination to defend the world's reserve currency.

The Chinese, with $1.4 trillion in reserves, perhaps 80 percent in dollar assets, indicated they may dump dollars and move into euros. Merrill-Lynch took an $8 billion hit. Citibank is signaling massive losses from its subprime mortgage debt. General Motors reported an operating loss of $1.6 billion for the quarter and a whopping $39 billion charge that is among the biggest profit hits ever reported

Where does this leave Bernanke? On the horns of a dilemma.

Exposure of all that subprime debt going rotten on the books of our biggest banks, the staggering losses being reported, the inability of homeowners to refinance or borrow any further against their equity, the credit crunch -- all argue for an easy money policy to get capital back into the economic bloodstream.

Thus the Fed has cut interest rates from 5.25 percent to 4.5 percent, thus the howls for deeper cuts, thus the market anticipation of another cut, though the Fed has said no more.

But the Fed is responsible not only for the national economy. It is responsible for defending the dollar, which represents the real savings and wealth of the nation. And that dollar has lost more value in seven years than in any similar period in modern history. A euro, worth 83 cents the year Bush was elected, has risen in value to $1.47.

As the dollar sinks, exporters may cheer rising sales, but at home we will soon find that the prices of all those imported goods from Europe and Asia down at the mall are starting to rise. U.S. soldiers, diplomats, tourists and businessmen overseas are already feeling the pain of a falling dollar.

If a recession is generally a sign the Fed should loosen up, a run on the dollar is a sign the Fed should tighten by raising interest rates to make dollars and dollar-denominated assets more attractive.

But the Fed's raising of interest rates would push up the rates on mortgages, credit cards and auto loans, and push millions of marginal folks into bankruptcy and the country into recession, a disaster for the Republicans.

But, given their free-trade fanaticism and free-spending ways, that fate would not be undeserved. Say a prayer for Ben Bernanke. He may have to eat the football that scrambling quarterback Greenspan tossed to him far behind the line of scrimmage.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: patbuchanan; vulturegram
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The Fed had opened the sluices, and the money had swamped the stock market. ?

Crank up the presses. Print more money. Who cares what the dollar is worth. It's only a meaningless statistic, right?

1 posted on 11/20/2007 11:28:46 AM PST by fweingart
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To: fweingart
and the loss of a third of the money supply

kind of a throw-away line. the Feds actually removed the money from circulation. In the U.S., a dollar was worth something, but nobody had one.
In Germany, everyone had Deutschmarks and they were worth nothing.

this would be a different kind of crash.
2 posted on 11/20/2007 11:36:02 AM PST by stylin19a
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To: fweingart
First, I think that the we have a tighter rein on the money supply now and have learned lessons from the depression. Second, Hoover is almost always blamed for the depression even though illegal gold speculation, drought and communist fanaticism was taking root. Could it be because he was a Republican. Hmm...
3 posted on 11/20/2007 11:42:09 AM PST by TheThinker
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To: stylin19a

This will be a different kind of crash!


4 posted on 11/20/2007 11:58:04 AM PST by glide625
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To: glide625; Grampa Dave; BOBTHENAILER
"This will be a different kind of crash!"

Yes! It'll be exactly like the great PJB political crash of 1988!!!

5 posted on 11/20/2007 12:02:54 PM PST by SierraWasp (If Dems had brains they'd be Repubs. And when they learned to use 'em, they'd be CONSERVATIVES!!!)
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To: fweingart

Selling short, are we, Pat?


6 posted on 11/20/2007 12:12:49 PM PST by pabianice
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To: fweingart

The USA is so powerful it doesn’t need the $US but can run and outrun all the rest on any currency. BTW, oil up $4 today, and so is everything else. Gasoline you don’t want to hear about.


7 posted on 11/20/2007 12:17:07 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: Hydroshock

ping a rooni


8 posted on 11/20/2007 12:18:09 PM PST by L,TOWM (Liberals, The Other White Meat)
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To: fweingart

They’ve already been printing the money . . . that’s why the value of the dollar has declined so much in the last few years. Someone posted an interesting analysis on a thread last week indicating that the real inflation rate in the U.S. for the last twelve months was something on the order of 18% — not the 2% to 3% reported by the Federal government.


9 posted on 11/20/2007 12:22:30 PM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: fweingart

I thought this might be interesting and then I saw it was written by Pattywagon Buchanon. The man’s a loon.


10 posted on 11/20/2007 12:24:58 PM PST by Pietro
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To: fweingart; Calpernia; cbkaty; Nervous Tick; ex-Texan; RockinRight; NVDave; Neidermeyer; ...

Economy/Credit/Housing Issues Ping List

If you want on or off this list let me know.


11 posted on 11/20/2007 12:25:04 PM PST by Hydroshock ("The Constitution should be taken like mountain whiskey -- undiluted and untaxed." - Sam Ervin)
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To: Alberta's Child

Got to talk about core inflation. It’s like not mentioning ID on a C thread. Core inflation is stuff you don’t need on a daily basis. Food and fuel are not core.


12 posted on 11/20/2007 12:26:05 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: Alberta's Child

I do the shoppign for my family, and I can tell by the prices we pay for staples on the table that the current fed inflation numbers are a work of fiction worthy of Stephen King.


13 posted on 11/20/2007 12:26:42 PM PST by Hydroshock ("The Constitution should be taken like mountain whiskey -- undiluted and untaxed." - Sam Ervin)
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To: RightWhale

Food and fuel is core to my family and our budget.


14 posted on 11/20/2007 12:28:30 PM PST by Hydroshock ("The Constitution should be taken like mountain whiskey -- undiluted and untaxed." - Sam Ervin)
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To: Hydroshock

I do the shoppign for my family, and I can tell by the prices we pay for staples on the table that the current fed inflation numbers are a work of fiction worthy of Stephen King.
***I would bump that contention.

.

.

Why the smart money is on Duncan Hunter
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926032/posts
Posted on 11/15/2007 3:43:17 AM PST by Kevmo


15 posted on 11/20/2007 12:28:42 PM PST by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq — via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: Alberta's Child
Well, it obviously depends on how you weight and adjust things. But my own personal inflation gauge would be around 8 or 9%.

P.S. Why does the spelling checker flag "gauge"?

16 posted on 11/20/2007 12:32:45 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture ™)
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To: Hydroshock

Your masters are not concerned with that. They consider the price of a Silverado pickup truck to be core.


17 posted on 11/20/2007 12:34:05 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: fweingart; OrthodoxPresbyterian; NapkinUser; DreamsofPolycarp; The_Eaglet; Irontank; Gamecock; ...

A sound money ping.


19 posted on 11/20/2007 12:36:25 PM PST by George W. Bush (Apres moi, le deluge.)
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To: glide625

“What’s the euro at now?” ping.


20 posted on 11/20/2007 12:37:23 PM PST by Xenalyte (Can you count, suckas? I say the future is ours . . . if you can count.)
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To: fortheDeclaration; Revelation 911

ping?


21 posted on 11/20/2007 12:37:55 PM PST by George W. Bush (Apres moi, le deluge.)
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To: sandyeggo

I know.


22 posted on 11/20/2007 12:38:05 PM PST by Hydroshock ("The Constitution should be taken like mountain whiskey -- undiluted and untaxed." - Sam Ervin)
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To: Xenalyte

The Euro is in Europe you silly-head. DUH


23 posted on 11/20/2007 12:38:40 PM PST by Shryke
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To: fweingart

Hm. A pretty useless article, when you get right down to it.


24 posted on 11/20/2007 12:39:06 PM PST by r9etb
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To: sandyeggo

All grains have popped up in the past year. Most of that is due to the cost of transportation, and that is fuel. The gov’t allowed the retailers to factor in the new cost of fuel about a year ago and it is showing up in the supermarket on everybody’s faces.


25 posted on 11/20/2007 12:39:27 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: TheThinker

Honest historians have changed the perception somewhat of Hoover in recent years. The prevailing view today is that FDR basically expanded upon Hoovers’ economic prescriptions on a much bigger scale. Remember, FDR campaigned upon a “sound money” platform too.

The thinking then, was the US was ripe for revolution or dictatorship, the experiment in self-government had failed, and the government had to do something to alleviate the suffering and unemployment.


26 posted on 11/20/2007 12:40:01 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Shryke

Okay, I’ll admit, that was funny. ;)


27 posted on 11/20/2007 12:40:49 PM PST by Xenalyte (Can you count, suckas? I say the future is ours . . . if you can count.)
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To: sandyeggo

Ice cream should be sold by weight. Ditto with TP for that matter.


28 posted on 11/20/2007 12:41:33 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: SierraWasp
Yes! It'll be exactly like the great PJB political crash of 1988!!!

I'm all stocked up on PB&J so I can ride the storm out.

MMmmmm peanutbutter and jelly.

29 posted on 11/20/2007 12:42:06 PM PST by NeoCaveman ("Don't doubt me" - El Rushbo, alternative tagline: Hunter/Pissant 2008)
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To: RightWhale

When/why/how didn’t the government “allow” retailers to factor in the cost of fuel on prices?


30 posted on 11/20/2007 12:42:30 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Pietro

How ‘bout pointing out the errors in Buchanan’s analysis rather than just calling him names? It seems to me that Pat is making some excellent points in this article.


31 posted on 11/20/2007 12:43:53 PM PST by irishjuggler
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To: fweingart
Pat Buchanan trying to remain relevant with more ‘the sky is falling’ rhetoric?
32 posted on 11/20/2007 12:43:57 PM PST by BlueNgold (Feed the Tree .....)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: pabianice; SierraWasp; Bob the builder
Selling short, are we, Pat?

Pat hates America and has been selling it short since he sold his soul to be the token conservative on the weekend screaming head shows.

34 posted on 11/20/2007 12:56:45 PM PST by Grampa Dave (("Ron Paul and his flaming antiwar spam monkeys can Kiss my Ass!!"- Jim Robinson, Sept, 30, 2007))
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To: fweingart
It is responsible for defending the dollar, which represents the real savings and wealth of the nation.

Not always true! The wealth of the United States is not always measured in dollars. It's also measured in the quality of its people, technology and know-how, geography and natural resources, transportation infrastructure, economic systems, and legal traditions.

Unfortunately, the liberals have been actively dumbing down the people, aborting American children, giving away our technology to our rivals, denying access to our natural resources, allowing our highways to fall apart, refusing to enforce the law, and attempting to micro-manage the lives of Americans everywhere. The results have been far more devastating than anything they could do to the dollar.

35 posted on 11/20/2007 1:00:03 PM PST by rabscuttle385 (Sic Semper Tyrannis * U.Va. Engineering * Go Hoos! * Fred Thompson 2008)
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To: irishjuggler

Every week Pat preaches that the sky is falling. And yet it hasn’t happened.


36 posted on 11/20/2007 1:04:22 PM PST by Pietro
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To: Freedom4US

It is regulated somehow. Might be a State thing.


37 posted on 11/20/2007 1:09:14 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

Animal feed and other farm costs have been deliberately ignored. We don’t grow much corn here anyway. None, actually, and nothing else either. It’s all imported.


39 posted on 11/20/2007 1:23:05 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: fweingart; All
Two men debunked the myth that the low-tax, high-tariff policy of the 1920s brought on the Depression. The more famous is Milton Friedman, who proved to the satisfaction of a Nobel Prize committee that the Depression was a monetary phenomenon. The Fed had opened the sluices, and the money had swamped the stock market.

Someone please show me where Milton Friedman ever wrote or said that an increase in money supply in the 1920s was responsible for the Depression. The only thing that I have ever read from Friedman was that it was the lack of money supply after the Panic of 1929 which created bank runs and prolonged the depression.

The real story is that it was rank protectionism (raising tariffs and government's closing of banks so that people could not access their Federal Reserve Notes) that prolonged the debacle. This is just Pat misreading history, yet again.

40 posted on 11/20/2007 1:23:09 PM PST by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: RightWhale

No, ! I would argue the costs of fuel have been always passed on to the consumer!


41 posted on 11/20/2007 1:23:43 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Xenalyte

$1.48; we’re in serious doo doo if it plunges through the $1.50 psychological resistance point.

That could produce panic offing by major banks world wide and dumping by S. Korea, (who’s been quietly selling into this mess), China, (who will deny it) and the Saudi’s,(who’ll deny it) and who are probably doing it already through some surreptitious means we can’t see.


42 posted on 11/20/2007 1:23:54 PM PST by glide625
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To: LowCountryJoe

The government didn’t close the banks per se, the banks were doing a fine job of that on their own, for several years. What Roosevelt did was close all the (few) remaining banks, calling it a “bank holiday”.


43 posted on 11/20/2007 1:26:07 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Freedom4US

Are you in Alaska?


44 posted on 11/20/2007 1:26:28 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: LowCountryJoe

The prolonging of the depression was exacerbated by the bone-headed socialism of FDR. With proper market savvy, instead of paying attention to the abysmal failure that was the USSR, Roosevelt drug us much deeper.


45 posted on 11/20/2007 1:27:01 PM PST by fweingart (Life's a bitch. So why vote for one?)
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To: Pietro
Every week Pat preaches that the sky is falling. And yet it hasn’t happened.

One day he will be right -- just not regarding history. And every doom & gloom kook will say "I told you so!". And then afterward, after the mess has been repaired (unfortunately after much too much populist intervention and fumbling before finding the market-based solution) we will have to still wait out another 20+ years of them claiming that we're going to be in the throws of doom again. With a doomer, the sucess rate can be minisule and yet one still be celebrated by fellow doomers for keeping up the good fight against the long odds...it's a sickness with them.

46 posted on 11/20/2007 1:28:51 PM PST by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: rabscuttle385
It's also measured in the quality of its people, technology and know-how...

With our population diluted by the scum that crawled in south of our border coupled with the almost complete drain of our manufacturing base, I would say we're in deep clinton.

47 posted on 11/20/2007 1:29:01 PM PST by fweingart (Life's a bitch. So why vote for one?)
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To: LowCountryJoe

I think this is a misread of Friedman.

The problem with the FED has been akin to “pushing on a string”; easing interest rates tends to create speculation in the markets, one cannot prevent money lent from ending up in the stock market, that’s what Friedman was talking about.

If you look at the charts, after the crash the government was actually pretty good about easing rates but it didn’t help.


48 posted on 11/20/2007 1:29:30 PM PST by Freedom4US
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To: Pietro; Xenalyte

You’re a poorly informed buffoon.

Buchanan has been more accurate in his prognostications about the decline and fall off of this culture, this nation and it’s in-bred, poorly performing leadership over the past 20 years than anyone else. He is, in my opinion, the only true conservative left standing. The rest are mere shells, pandering to the polls in an endless self-serving scheme of self-aggrandisement and hopeless over-reaching. While obviously ignorant of history, the one positive thing that can be said of Bush is that at least he is true to himself and has the courage to take a firm stand for his convicitons, ill informed and poorly advised though he may be.


49 posted on 11/20/2007 1:30:17 PM PST by glide625
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To: Grampa Dave
Pat hates America

No he doesn't.

Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Lautenberg, Schumer and the Clintons....hate America.

Pat is just pointing out how he feels the Fed policies are not good for America.

50 posted on 11/20/2007 1:31:56 PM PST by fweingart (Life's a bitch. So why vote for one?)
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