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President Putin rattles nuclear sabre at Nato
London Times ^ | November 21, 2007 | Tony Halpin in Moscow

Posted on 11/21/2007 4:55:36 AM PST by Aristotelian

President Putin accused Nato yesterday of threatening Russia’s security and ordered the military to place the country’s strategic nuclear arsenal on a higher state of alert.

“In violation of previous agreements, certain member countries of the Nato alliance are increasing their resources next to our borders,” Mr Putin told generals in a meeting broadcast on state television. “Russia cannot remain indifferent to this obvious muscle-flexing.”

Mr Putin, whose rhetoric has become more strident as relations with the West have deteriorated, went on: “One of the most important tasks remains raising the combat readiness of the strategic nuclear forces. They should be ready to deliver a quick and adequate reply to any aggressor.”

He issued his stark message as Russia confirmed that it would pull out of a landmark arms limitation treaty on December 12. The Conventional Forces in Europe (CFE) treaty was fundamental to ending the Cold War.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: helpfindacureforbds; nato; putin; russiannukes
Is this guy simply starving for attention? Putting on a show for the folks back home? Hoping to regain superpower status? Or just an egotist?

I knew no good would come to electing a former KGB chief as Russian president.

1 posted on 11/21/2007 4:55:37 AM PST by Aristotelian
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To: Aristotelian

Maybe we should invite him for a taste of our soup?


2 posted on 11/21/2007 5:00:27 AM PST by Romneyfor President2008
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To: Aristotelian

Putin’s next visit to Crawford is when?


3 posted on 11/21/2007 5:11:33 AM PST by riored
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To: Aristotelian
strategic nuclear forces...should be ready to deliver a quick and adequate reply to any aggressor

Like putting Polonium in their tea?

4 posted on 11/21/2007 5:32:36 AM PST by hellbender
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To: hellbender

strategic nuclear forces...should be ready to deliver a quick and adequate reply to “any” aggressor. ................. There is a message there and I don’t believe it only applies to NATO. If I were Puttin I wouldn’t be too concerned with NATO. His problem will be in the east and the south, not the west. He knows darn well NATO’s intentions are not aggressive.


5 posted on 11/21/2007 5:49:54 AM PST by Bringbackthedraft (Staying home or voting 3rd Party, Elects Hillary!)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
Vlad "the Irradiator" Putin should be concerned about those east and south, but he gets in bed with the Chinese, and helps Iran go nuclear. He's showing his anti-Western KGB roots with every decision he makes.
6 posted on 11/21/2007 6:22:47 AM PST by hellbender
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To: Aristotelian

“Russia cannot remain indifferent to this obvious muscle-flexing.”

Its so cute when cubs growl.....(chuckle)


7 posted on 11/21/2007 6:23:47 AM PST by Badeye (That Karma thing keeps coming around, eh Sally? (chuckle))
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To: Aristotelian

This is merely ANOTHER example of the Administration incredible ineptness on foreign policy. Its almost as if the father was guiding the son.

Putting anti-missile bases near Russia’s border’s given our strined relations, Putin’s background and the Russian traditional xenophobic persecution-complex attitudes was the height of stupidity. One would expect better from a Secretary of State who allegedly majored in Soviet affairs.

The only possible outcome of such a move is what is what we are now seeing.

The Russians and Putin in particular, were never our friends. But we shouldn’t be doing things to unnecessarily aggrevate them as it distracts from what should be our main focus - Iran.


8 posted on 11/21/2007 6:31:29 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

There are a chain of events that begin in 2003 where Putin began making an about face in temporary strategic alliance against Islam. The missle shield is partially a strong message that we will not tolerate Russia helping the ME build the Arab bomb.

That said, I have some strong religious beliefs about Russia and those include that Russia will launch an all out nuclear attack on our country after we see a global collapse of the central banking system and a regional ME war. We have a massive technology advantage over the Russians and in there paranoid minds, it disturbs them endlessly. So when oil stops flowing and we have our moment of weakness watch the Russian bear awaken with the power of the atom. If such does indeed occur, we must not only annihalate them in return but extend the conflict to conquer their entire nation afterward to guarantee their destructive culture and attitudes never can resurface again.


9 posted on 11/21/2007 11:19:55 AM PST by quant5
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To: quant5

Interesting ideas.

What religion are they tied to?


10 posted on 11/21/2007 1:35:25 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: Aristotelian

He’s got a pocket full of oil money and now he’s big balling.


11 posted on 11/21/2007 1:39:15 PM PST by toddlintown (Five bullets and Lennon goes down. Yet not one hit Yoko. Discuss.)
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To: quant5
You have some dangerous nutty ideas.

After 9/11 we were on a roll with the new Russia, Putin did a lot of accommodating, Rice did zilch.

The next president will have to to be realistic, and come to terms with the new Russia. We are both basically large powerful Christian countries with too much in common to be 'promoting' a potential catastrophe.

12 posted on 11/21/2007 2:17:33 PM PST by duckln
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To: Bringbackthedraft
He knows darn well NATO’s intentions are not aggressive.

Really think so? NATO was aggressive in Bosnia and Kosovo. Siding with the Islamist there and in Chechnya was the height of stupidity. Why shouldn't they be more than irritated.

13 posted on 11/21/2007 2:28:57 PM PST by duckln
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To: Aristotelian

Is this guy simply starving for attention?

YES

Putting on a show for the folks back home?

YES

Hoping to regain superpower status?

YES

Or just an egotist?

YES.


14 posted on 11/21/2007 2:47:01 PM PST by UCANSEE2 (- Attention all planets of the solar Federation--Secret plan codeword: Banana)
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To: Aristotelian

Putin you can kiss my red-blooded American @rse with your commy pinko lips you Hitlary Robem Clinton loving b@st@ard.


15 posted on 11/21/2007 2:48:01 PM PST by dotnetfellow
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To: Bringbackthedraft
*****There is a message there and I don’t believe it only applies to NATO. If I were Putin I wouldn’t be too concerned with NATO. His problem will be in the east and the south, not the west. He knows darn well NATO’s intentions are not aggressive.****

It is usually a mistake to think that someone thinks the same way you do. Poland and Checz(sp?) are part of NATO, now which requires the other NATO countries to defend them if they are attacked. Russia has not shown any aggressive tendencies to eastern Europe lately, so, extending bases closer to Russia, is an aggressive move on NATO’s part.

Russians are great chess players and, in chess, a threat is almost as good as an attack.

The only real threat Russia faces from the east and the south is China. There is no Islamic country that could attack in a military manner.

Russia has not been attacked from the east or the south in the last two centuries, but it has been attacked from the west— France, Napoleon, and Germany, Hitler.

Just because we think our intentions are pure, doesn’t mean Russia thinks our intentions are pure.

16 posted on 11/21/2007 5:42:01 PM PST by jmeagan (Our last chance to change the direction of the country -- Ron Paul)
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To: quant5
"Russia will launch an all out nuclear attack on our country after we see a global collapse of the central banking system and a regional ME war."

Only if they're on a suicide mission, because if that ever happened "the Motherland" would cease to exist in under an hour. Literally.

The Russians are many things, a lot of them not so complimentary. But unlike Islamist nutballs they're not suicidal.

17 posted on 11/21/2007 5:48:00 PM PST by Mr. Mojo (“Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors and miss.")
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To: quant5

I saw what you describe in a movie once about 25 years ago. The movie was called “red dawn”.

I can’t believe that’s been a quarter century already.


18 posted on 11/21/2007 5:49:33 PM PST by mamelukesabre
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To: ZULU
Putting anti-missile bases near Russia’s border’s given our strined relations, Putin’s background and the Russian traditional xenophobic persecution-complex attitudes was the height of stupidity. One would expect better from a Secretary of State who allegedly majored in Soviet affairs.

I agree 100%.

What would we do if Russia decided to place an anti-missile system in Mexico or Canada, OR Venezuela?
And we aren't nearly as paranoid as Russia.

19 posted on 11/21/2007 7:00:43 PM PST by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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To: Vinnie
Good analogy. And I don’t like Putin. But we are just giving him ammo.

It was a stupid move. It provides no real protection to eastern Europe while aggravating the Russians.

20 posted on 11/21/2007 7:55:21 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
He knows darn well NATO’s intentions are not aggressive.

I believe the Serbs would beg to differ on that argument.

21 posted on 11/22/2007 11:12:29 PM PST by Centurion2000 (False modesty is as great a sin as false pride.)
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To: ZULU

Bet you were a sourpuss on the Pershings too.

Russia is being Russia. The Eastern Europeans are glad to help us out as they will NOT go thru another 50 years of Russian rule again.

Putin’s pissed because he’s losing his buffer. That’s just too freaking bad. That’s what happens when you enslave entire nations for 50 years. They could care less if you want to get along after that or not.

Putin doesn’t want to reign in Iran? Fine. He’ll have to deal with missile defense. A missile defense he damn well knows is not capable of defending against a Russian missile attack.

And the anti-missile defense deployed along our borders would make us angry? Why? There are these little things called “Ohios” that sort of make that a moot point.


22 posted on 11/23/2007 12:09:23 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (No buy China!!)
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To: VeniVidiVici

“Bet you were a sourpuss on the Pershings too.”

No.

“A missile defense he damn well knows is not capable of defending against a Russian missile attack.”

EXACTLY. So what’s the point? We just give Putin something to rouse the homeboys over, without doing anything significant - at a time when we have our hands full of other problems.

“And the anti-missile defense deployed along our borders would make us angry? Why? There are these little things called “Ohios” that sort of make that a moot point.”

It would make me damn angry. A threat aimed at us, even if not significant, is an insult - which is exactly the way Putin is responding.


23 posted on 11/23/2007 10:51:45 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU

So, your argument is that the anti-missile defense has no value other than to piss Putin off.

Ok.


24 posted on 11/23/2007 1:10:09 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (No buy China!!)
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To: VeniVidiVici

If I’m wrong, tell me why.


25 posted on 11/23/2007 1:47:02 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: Aristotelian
Is this guy simply starving for attention?

Putin is *really* jealous of President-for-Life Hugo Chavez and is trying his best to best him in the media. Future President-for-Life Vladimir is even out looking for a parrot that is smarter than he is...

26 posted on 11/23/2007 1:49:54 PM PST by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: ZULU

Mine are Christian, more of a non-denomination and factual/scientific approach. I am a data guy and the universe is all math. That kind of approach :) Prophecy is statistical probability. That said, how do you know you make the right choice for the better or worse if you are a national leader? You pick up the standard and cross of Christ and you don’t deviate. What I see in the State Department is an abondonment of the President’s core values in favor of a secular approach. This has caused nations to question our leadership when one moment we are cowboys destroying evil and the next sitting down and having tea with the same kind of bad guys. NOT GOOD.


27 posted on 11/26/2007 9:43:57 AM PST by quant5
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To: duckln

I would prefer if both nations never used their nuclear stockpiles. However, I do not see President Bush stating that he is placing our nuclear stockpile on a heightened state of alert and bailing from strategic arms treaties. Russia could choose to be allies and reap far more financial reward by working with the United States but instead chooses to resume the Cold War. The tactics are the same but the danger is far greater now. ME countries with nukes changes the entire equation.

The scenerio unfolding is financial collapse/Gog & Magog then ultimately a WWIII scenerio. In Revelations 1/3 of mankind dies from this war, but do you know what? Man does not change. What I am into is not babblings from old men whom had prophetic vision. I am into statistical probability which is what prophecy is. And what I see is the exact step by step blueprint for global conflict as outlined by scripture, current events and digital forecast models that reveal very hostile intentions by several nations. We should be concerned and armed. Peace through strength! Now, I agree Condi Rice has not helped (I am being nice).

The President is right. If you don’t want to see nukes ever being used and prevent WWIII, Russia must stop assisting Iran in building the bomb.


28 posted on 11/26/2007 9:54:27 AM PST by quant5
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To: quant5

“You pick up the standard and cross of Christ and you don’t deviate.”

Until the fall of the “Evil Empire” we more or less did just that.


29 posted on 11/26/2007 9:56:49 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: jmeagan

“It is usually a mistake to think that someone thinks the same way you do. Poland and Checz(sp?) are part of NATO, now which requires the other NATO countries to defend them if they are attacked. Russia has not shown any aggressive tendencies to eastern Europe lately, so, extending bases closer to Russia, is an aggressive move on NATO’s part.”

Exactly. I stated here that assisting Ukraine with the Orange Revolution was extremely unwise and unecessary. The Ukranians by and large detest the motherland, they did not need our help. Yes, Putin the KGB meister used poison on Kruchenko. Do you see a bad trend forming here? We send cash and activists to help push democracy and Putin uses deadly chemicals. Think we should keep pushing Eastward with Nato? I don’t...


30 posted on 11/26/2007 9:59:55 AM PST by quant5
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To: Lazarus Longer

I don’t think tomorrow there is an immediate risk. However, we keep pushing eastward and see some kind of ME conflict where we go in again and take away valuable (if not evil) trading partners, you will see a whole new ballgame. Putin may be brainwashed KGB but he is not a stupid individual. Our leadership is acting very bad right now and seems to be in confusion. The Russians are paranoid. That’s not a good mix.


31 posted on 11/26/2007 10:03:18 AM PST by quant5
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To: mamelukesabre

Wow, no kidding! What a great flick.


32 posted on 11/26/2007 10:05:23 AM PST by quant5
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To: Vinnie

“I agree 100%.

What would we do if Russia decided to place an anti-missile system in Mexico or Canada, OR Venezuela?
And we aren’t nearly as paranoid as Russia.”

Hmm, that is a good point but what do you use as a bartering chip to get the Russians to drop helping Iran build the bomb? Iran has pretty much openly stated what they will do with that bomb. Think the world markets will do better or worse with mushroom clouds in Tel Aviv and Tehran? My gut tells me the Russians know a limited shield would do nothing to prevent an all out attack so it seems to me we forced there hand to reveal intentions.


33 posted on 11/26/2007 10:09:04 AM PST by quant5
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To: ZULU

Yeah. Man has a tendency to pick up depravity to stifle the boredom. A national focus is always good whether it be space travel, obtaining immortality for mankind or how about this one: Becoming energy independant!!!


34 posted on 11/26/2007 10:13:19 AM PST by quant5
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To: quant5
Think we should keep pushing Eastward with Nato? I don’t...

Can't go much further east.

I think the former colonies should be able to choose for themselves which alliances to join or form. Be it Eastern Europe or the former "republics".

35 posted on 11/26/2007 10:28:35 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (No buy China!!)
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To: dotnetfellow
Congratulations. Your’s is the dumbest post I read today.
36 posted on 11/26/2007 11:58:12 AM PST by duckln
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To: ZULU
This is merely ANOTHER example of the Administration incredible ineptness on foreign policy. Its almost as if the father was guiding the son.

Never mind Bush the Elder, where the HELL is Condoleeza Rice hiding? I thought she was the sh!t-hot expert on the Russians. This stuff (the North Pole thing, bomber flights near our airspace, etc.) has been going on for months now, yet I've seen no quotes from her, no blurbs about her advising the President, nothing at all.

37 posted on 11/26/2007 12:14:05 PM PST by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: quant5
Russia could choose to be allies and reap far more financial reward by working with the United States but instead chooses to resume the Cold War.

IMO, we are continuing the cold war, and Russia is responding. Not a good policy.

The President is right. If you don’t want to see nukes ever being used and prevent WWIII, Russia must stop assisting Iran in building the bomb.

Russia, as far as I know, is helping them build a nuclear power plant, not a bomb.

38 posted on 11/26/2007 12:14:46 PM PST by duckln
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To: Charles Martel

My guess is she didn;t realize how really inept her boss is until she started interfacing with him on a higher level.

Now, she is probably keeping as low a profile as possible as to reduce the taint on her future career.

Or maybe she was never that bright to start with.


39 posted on 11/26/2007 12:20:46 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: VeniVidiVici

We’re a global community linked to massive digital libraries. So we are on the same page, let each country decide.

What I am talking about ceasing and desisting on is overt or covert operations to sway other nations elections like we did during the Cold War. The Russian response to our Cold War tactics is to use what they know as counter measures and that is not good.


40 posted on 11/26/2007 12:44:38 PM PST by quant5
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To: duckln

“Russia, as far as I know, is helping them build a nuclear power plant, not a bomb.”

Ummm, yeah a Plutonium reactor. Considering China via Pakistan/North Korea proliferated the nuclear designs for a bomb to ME countries, including Iran the only real thing a country needs now is the nuclear material itself.

Remember a couple weeks ago where Iran gave the IAE the blueprints as a show of faith they were willing to negotiate? Worthless paper now, I can find these designs if I really wanted to. They are everywhere now.

The damage Bill Clinton did by allowing Chinese espionage at Los Alamos will someday resurface and probably not in a pretty way.

There was this little thing going on for about four years where Iran was supposed to ship Russia the spent nuclear material but ahhh so funny, the Russians claimed they didn’t get paid so the Iranians kept the nuclear material. Then the Iranians were pissed because it appeared Russia had sold them an inferior air defense system as we saw with the recent North Korea/Syrian incident.

At this point, Russia had a big choice and made it a month ago and that was full steam ahead to assist Iran in finishing up this this reactor.

I am not simply afraid of the Russians. I am afraid of the Frankenstein monster they have and are continuing to create with Iran. The Russians always seem to feel masters at chess and likely feel they can keep the lid on the Iranians behavior. THAT is what makes me nervous just to boil it all down.


41 posted on 11/26/2007 1:11:12 PM PST by quant5
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To: quant5
At this point, Russia had a big choice and made it a month ago and that was full steam ahead to assist Iran in finishing up this this reactor.

Putin was just in Iran. Reports say that a deadline to finish the reactor was not discussed. It's in limbo pending resolution of the nuclear material problem.

42 posted on 11/26/2007 2:32:02 PM PST by duckln
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To: duckln

HAHAH. Your an optimist. I like that! Consider those words, ‘pending the resolution of the nuclear material problem’. Iran has the material it needs guy ALREADY. I will not say any more.

We need to waive our advanced technology in the Russians face such as a missle shield or lasers on the moon if needs be as a bartering chit to chain there little pet. President Reagan had the right idea all along.

Or else Frankestein may just decide to start WWIII on it’s own. What pray-tell would be the result of Iran detonating one nuclear weapon on Israeli soil? Even if the conflict stayed regional we the USA will support our allies and so will the Russians. Problem is, Russia’s economy will fare much better then ours considering they have there own supply of oil and we DONT.

In the last 100 years, history has demonstrated global conflict when national powers running fiat currency goes down in flames. Getting the picture?

You started off by saying I have nutty ideas. Well color me stupid but I would rather fashion our nation around the idea of peace through strength, that these deadly games carry the harshest of consequences for those who continue to promote them. So yes, if the Russians help ignite WWIII by being irresponsible I say our country would have to go ALL THE WAY and make sure such an irresponsible culture never gets to rear it’s foolish ugly head on this earth, ever again. Remember WWII? We occupied those nations for decades. That lesson seems to be lost in this era of leaders and those that refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.


43 posted on 11/26/2007 5:10:38 PM PST by quant5
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To: duckln

You mean some of the “evil appeasing” posts you have made today don’t qualify?


44 posted on 11/27/2007 4:00:58 PM PST by dotnetfellow
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