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Council of Bishops calls for immediate Iraq withdrawal (Methodist)
United Methodist News Service ^ | Nov. 9, 2007 | Linda Green

Posted on 11/21/2007 9:21:33 AM PST by PAR35

Declaring war "incompatible with the teachings and example of Christ," the bishops of The United Methodist Church called on leaders of all nations to begin an immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

The bishops also urged against deploying additional troops to Iraq and against establishing permanent military bases in the Middle Eastern country.

(Excerpt) Read more at umc.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cutnrun; handwringers; methodist; ncc; religiousleft; umc
More from the 'religious left'.
1 posted on 11/21/2007 9:21:34 AM PST by PAR35
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To: PAR35

Last I checked we didn’t “declare” war.


2 posted on 11/21/2007 9:23:05 AM PST by sball (Declare Victory)
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To: PAR35

What? No mention of Kosovo?


3 posted on 11/21/2007 9:23:44 AM PST by rhombus
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To: PAR35
Well, I think we should withdraw all Methodist Bishops from Iraq, they tend to get in the way of our bullets.
4 posted on 11/21/2007 9:24:13 AM PST by frankenMonkey (101st Army Dad)
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To: PAR35
‘Guess they think islam compatible with Christ’s teachings.
5 posted on 11/21/2007 9:24:43 AM PST by onedoug
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To: PAR35
So much for:

"As He died to make men Holy - Let us die to make men free...."

6 posted on 11/21/2007 9:24:50 AM PST by central_va
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To: PAR35
Council of Bishops calls for immediate Iraq withdrawal genocide

There. Fixed it.

7 posted on 11/21/2007 9:25:47 AM PST by inkling (exurbanleague.com)
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To: PAR35

God only supports wars led by Democrats ... It’s in the Bible or ssomething.


8 posted on 11/21/2007 9:26:04 AM PST by Lexington Green (Not one dime to Hollywood traitors)
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To: PAR35
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

-JS Mill, 1863

9 posted on 11/21/2007 9:27:33 AM PST by central_va
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To: PAR35
Absolute nonsense. Christ teaches us the evil must be opposed, not appeased. Pacifism is not moral, it is the empowerment of evil.
10 posted on 11/21/2007 9:29:11 AM PST by MNJohnnie (FUND THE WAR! DEFUND THE PORK! FIX THE ATM!-DO SOMETHING DEMOCRATS!)
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To: PAR35

Oh yes, these evil doers.

I mean because building schools and risking lives to protect others just completely goes against the teachings of christianity and should be considered ‘warfare’. /sarc


11 posted on 11/21/2007 9:30:03 AM PST by UKrepublican
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To: PAR35

I’ll let these liberal fakers in on the 411. Christ is going to slay millions of the anti-christ’s army with the Word of His mouth. And Christ will throw the anti-christ and the false prophet alive into the lake of fire. It’s going to be a war, but the fighting will not last long.


12 posted on 11/21/2007 9:30:40 AM PST by Rodm (Seest thou a man diligent in his business? He shall stand before kings)
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To: PAR35

When they call 9-1-1, do they ask for an unarmed cop to drop by?


13 posted on 11/21/2007 9:32:41 AM PST by Larry Lucido (Hunter 2008)
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To: PAR35

When did the Methodists merge with Code Pink and how did I ever miss that story?


14 posted on 11/21/2007 9:33:13 AM PST by 3AngelaD (They screwed up their own countries so bad they had to leave, and now they're here screwing up ours)
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To: PAR35

They want Iraq to have the kind of society that will torture rape victims.


15 posted on 11/21/2007 9:35:54 AM PST by AU72
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To: PAR35

Yeah, well I call for immediate withdrawal of my letter from the so-called methodist church... as of LAST YEAR.

The United Methodist Church is inclusive to everybody but Jesus.


16 posted on 11/21/2007 9:37:14 AM PST by dandelion
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To: PAR35
Their idea of Christian love is to abandon Iraqis to be slaughtered by Islamofascists. They overlook the fact Iraqi Christians have been martyred for their faith, too. Treasonous scum.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

17 posted on 11/21/2007 9:38:40 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: PAR35
Dear Methodists:

Following Christian beliefs is not a suicide pact....

They want to kill us or convert us, I say you can go down like a lamb, for me, I guess in the end, I'll have to beg for forgiveness..

Se le guerre.

18 posted on 11/21/2007 9:44:47 AM PST by central_va
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To: PAR35

Doesn’t Hillary Clinton claim to be a Methodist?


19 posted on 11/21/2007 9:45:50 AM PST by khnyny (Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed. Winston Churchill)
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To: PAR35

UMC is a proud member of NCCCUSA.


20 posted on 11/21/2007 9:52:36 AM PST by polymuser (There is one war and one enemy.)
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To: PAR35

And just when our efforts are bearing fruit. American success cannot be tolerated. I suggest the Methodist Clergy go help fill the vacuum left when we leave.


21 posted on 11/21/2007 9:53:09 AM PST by oyez (Justa' another high minded lowlife.)
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To: PAR35

Call the IRS. Time to check up on their non-political tax-exempt status.


22 posted on 11/21/2007 9:56:51 AM PST by hsalaw
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To: MNJohnnie

well said


23 posted on 11/21/2007 10:11:30 AM PST by bigfootbob
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To: hsalaw

No IRS issues here.


24 posted on 11/21/2007 10:18:27 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Rodm

God will however fight that battle for us. I do believe though that these individuals or maybe even the whole church is in error. When Christ met Cornelius he did not condemn him for being a “babykiller” or any of the such but instead knew being a soldier was an honest profession. Besides that he was more concerned with what actually mattered, his great faith.


25 posted on 11/21/2007 10:22:49 AM PST by Xenophon450 (They say it's lonely at the top, then I am as lonely as can be.)
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To: PAR35

No, ladies and gentlemen. But I DO think we should have the common courtesy to offer the insurgents a reacharound.


26 posted on 11/21/2007 10:24:42 AM PST by RichInOC (...R. Lee Ermey, a role model for us all.)
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To: MNJohnnie
Absolute nonsense. Christ teaches us that evil must be opposed, not appeased. Pacifism is not moral, it is the empowerment of evil.

---<>---<>---<>---<>---<>---

Worth repeating in BOLD! Nice, succinct comment.

27 posted on 11/21/2007 10:25:17 AM PST by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: PAR35
Declaring war "incompatible with the teachings and example of Christ,"

When you let intellectual lightweights take over your church, you get asinine statements like this.

28 posted on 11/21/2007 10:27:22 AM PST by stripes1776
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To: RichInOC

Was there a reason that Hedley Lamarr had Methodists on his list of the “worst criminals ever to soil the face of the west” in Blazing Saddles?


29 posted on 11/21/2007 10:30:03 AM PST by fredhead (What this world needs is a few more Rednecks - Charlie Daniels)
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To: fredhead

That old guy was a genius before his time.


30 posted on 11/21/2007 10:33:37 AM PST by RichInOC ("Now go do that voodoo that you do so well!")
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To: MNJohnnie
The term “Christian nation” is an oxymoron. A state must take actions 24/7 to maintain domestic peace and tranquility. Necessary, even imperative, actions like capital punishment and waging war contradict the core Christian ethical requirements. Thus, in most spiritual tradition war is never, ever, ever, ever, justified within the realm of kingdom ethics (those actions commanded or prohibited in the here and now by the New Testament and binding upon believers until the Second Coming). See Jean-Michel Hornus, It Is Not Lawful For Me To Fight: Early Christian Attitudes Toward War, Violence, and the Sate, and John Howard Yoder, The Politics of Jesus (Eerdmans:1972, 260 pgs.).

There is no Godly blessing to be pronounced over the killing of fellow humans. There is no strand of New Testament teaching or slivers of proof-text verses that put a Christian stamp of approval upon war. War is hell. War is of the devil. And anyone who thinks that there are or can be rules for the civilized, organized, lethal infliction of deadly force is delusional.

Over 150 Christian leaders worldwide have declared that our nation building action in Iraq does not comport as a “just war.” I am not sure what they would say had we attacked the financiers of the 911 attack (Saudi Arabia)or Pakistan where most of the terrorists came from and where even today like minded terrorists find refuge, so what Christian denomination should we attack next for their opposition to this war?

The Pope and Catholics?

Pope John Paul II calls War a Defeat for Humanity: Neoconservative Iraq Just War Theories Rejected

31 posted on 11/21/2007 10:53:26 AM PST by KDD (Ron Paul did not approve this post)
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To: PAR35; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; George W. Bush; Alex Murphy; topcat54
The Council of Bishops doesn't read their own rule book very closely. The Methodist Book of Discipline, while clearly utopian, nonetheless allows for "just war." I've underlined the pertinent section.

Is the conflict in IRaq part of a "just war." I think so, and so does the President, who is also a Methodist.

Our bishops tend to be liberal, politically motivated, and totally untrained on military subjects. That's why is fairly easy to ignore them when they get on one of their utopian binges.

Another thing to notice about this statement is that it obviously was written by a committee and then a body in session. One side wants us to be a pacifist denomination; the other wants to allow for just war.

From the 2004 BOD, probably about Para 161 or 162 - We believe war is incompatible with the teachings and example of Christ.

We therefore reject war as an instrument of national foreign policy, to be employed only as a last resort in the prevention of such evils as genocide, brutal suppression of human rights, and unprovoked international aggression.

We insist that the first moral duty of all nations is to resolve by peaceful means every dispute that arises between or among them; that human values must outweigh military claims as governments determine their priorities; that the militarization of society must be challenged and stopped; that the manufacture, sale, and deployment of armaments must be reduced and controlled; and that the production, possession, or use of nuclear weapons be condemned.

Consequently, we endorse general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.


32 posted on 11/21/2007 11:08:12 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain. True Supporters of the Troops will pray for US to Win!)
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To: KDD

To quote Napoleon:

“And just how many cannon does the Pope have?”


33 posted on 11/21/2007 11:14:13 AM PST by Captain Rhino ( If we have the WILL to do it, there is nothing built in China that we cannot do without.)
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To: PAR35

I agree, we should withdraw from Iraq immediately

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points to tagline

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Why the smart money is on Duncan Hunter
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926032/posts
Posted on 11/15/2007 3:43:17 AM PST by Kevmo


34 posted on 11/21/2007 11:40:02 AM PST by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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To: xzins
The Methodist Book of Discipline, while clearly utopian, nonetheless allows for "just war." I've underlined the pertinent section. Is the conflict in IRaq part of a "just war." I think so, and so does the President, who is also a Methodist.

You don't really think President Bush consulted the Methodist Book of Discipline before deciding he was allowed to use military force in the two invasions, do you?

You may be theological. And I might be. But Prez Bush really gives no indication of deep denominational conviction or a theological worldview. He's just not a theological thinker unless he conceals it pretty well.
35 posted on 11/21/2007 12:01:12 PM PST by George W. Bush (Apres moi, le deluge.)
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To: oyez

Don’t confuse the clergy with the bishops. These so-called leaders of the UMC are a million miles away from the people in the pews. It’s sort of like having Nancy Pelosi as your representative. Not much you can do about it. My little country church is very very conservative.


36 posted on 11/21/2007 12:03:00 PM PST by WVNan
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To: frankenMonkey

The Pentagon is now going to rule that Methodism must completely renounce the gay lifestyle and single-sex marriage. John Wesley must be turning over in his grave.


37 posted on 11/21/2007 12:08:41 PM PST by Upbeat
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To: George W. Bush

I don’t think he consulted the Methodist’s BOD, but I’m positive there was a lot of “Just War” language going back and forth at the time.


38 posted on 11/21/2007 12:57:17 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain. True Supporters of the Troops will pray for US to Win!)
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To: KDD
Here is Just War Doctrine as defined by the very Catholic Church you cite. Iraq fits even single one of these. Iraq is a Just War no matter how badly that upsets the Paulbots.

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

* the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

(War in Kuwait, Iran and on the people of Iraq themselves. Millions dead by Saddam's hand, a continual state of blockade imposed on the Iraqi people by UN Sanctions and the No Fly Zone_) causing malnutrition and suffering to the people of Iraq

* all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

(Saddam routinely violated the terms of the 1991 Gulf war, supported International Terrorists, fired on Coalition aircraft and refused to cooperate with UN Weapons Inspectors. He so routinely violated the existing 1991 Ceasefire that there was no hope of any future agreement with him being taken seriously by the Iraqi regime

* there must be serious prospects of success;

Obviously done by anyone who critically thinks about Iraq instead of just mindlessly clings to Neo Isolationist Paulbot dogma know this criteria is met.

* the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

25 million person nation liberated after 40 years of oppression. No more rape rooms, children prisons, torture chambers, or mass graves. No more UN Sanctions. A free Democratically elected Govt taking shape. Far fewer casualties to either the Iraqis or the Coalition then could ever reasonably been expected. Less collateral damage, few civilian deaths per capita then any other similar military effort in history.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

Iraq qualifies under all these categories. The Pope is wrong.

Sorry but the days of Papal infallibility are LONG gone. The Pope, like the Bishops, are WRONG about Iraq. Which is no surprise since ALL junk media sources of info on it are essentially lying to them by omission. They are given a highly slanted, politically partisan, frequently erronous world view by propagandists pretending to be "Journalists".

Like any other human agenda, any Church leadership is quite capable of error. Learn to live with it.

39 posted on 11/21/2007 1:08:52 PM PST by MNJohnnie (FUND THE WAR! DEFUND THE PORK! FIX THE ATM!-DO SOMETHING DEMOCRATS!)
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To: MNJohnnie

The Pope is wrong and MNJohnnie is right?

LOL! OK

But I am much more inclined to believe the Pope then I am MNJohnnie...and I’m not even Catholic.


40 posted on 11/21/2007 1:14:28 PM PST by KDD (Ron Paul did not approve this message)
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To: PAR35
The methodist bishops are OPPOSED to peace in the mid-east.

The goal of the U.S. in Iraq and elsewhere in the MidEast if to remove the forces of evil and bring peace to that part of the world. This goal is consistent with the Government’s responsibility to protect it’s people.

The real peacemakers are those who risk their lives, (be they American Iraqi, or any of the Coalition forces,) that peace might have a chance.

Name one religious leader in the world who supports them, and seeks peace in a meaningful way - other than one one who came to bring peace 2000 years ago.

41 posted on 11/21/2007 3:24:55 PM PST by elpadre
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To: fredhead

“Was there a reason that Hedley Lamarr had Methodists on his list of the “worst criminals ever to soil the face of the west” in Blazing Saddles?”

Howard Johnson was right!


42 posted on 11/21/2007 3:27:51 PM PST by doctor noe
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To: xzins
Another thing to notice about this statement is that it obviously was written by a committee and then a body in session. One side wants us to be a pacifist denomination; the other wants to allow for just war.

A house divided against itself cannot stand!

43 posted on 11/21/2007 7:29:14 PM PST by pray4liberty (Watch and pray.)
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