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"Meet the women who won't have babies--because they're not so eco friendly"
Daily Mail ^ | Nov. 21, 2007 | Natasha Courtenay Smith and Morag Turner

Posted on 11/23/2007 4:50:44 AM PST by steadfastconservative

Meet the women who won't have babies - because they're not eco friendly By NATASHA COURTENAY-SMITH and MORAG TURNER - More by this author »

Had Toni Vernelli gone ahead with her pregnancy ten years ago, she would know at first hand what it is like to cradle her own baby, to have a pair of innocent eyes gazing up at her with unconditional love, to feel a little hand slipping into hers - and a voice calling her Mummy. But the very thought makes her shudder with horror.

Because when Toni terminated her pregnancy, she did so in the firm belief she was helping to save the planet.

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Desperate measures: Toni Vernelli was steralised at age 27 to reduce her carbon footprint

Incredibly, so determined was she that the terrible "mistake" of pregnancy should never happen again, that she begged the doctor who performed the abortion to sterilise her at the same time.

He refused, but Toni - who works for an environmental charity - "relentlessly hunted down a doctor who would perform the irreversible surgery.

Finally, eight years ago, Toni got her way.

At the age of 27 this young woman at the height of her reproductive years was sterilised to "protect the planet".

Incredibly, instead of mourning the loss of a family that never was, her boyfriend (now husband) presented her with a congratulations card.

While some might think it strange to celebrate the reversal of nature and denial of motherhood, Toni relishes her decision with an almost religious zeal.

"Having children is selfish. It's all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet," says Toni, 35.

"Every person who is born uses more food, more water, more land, more fossil fuels, more trees and produces more rubbish, more pollution, more greenhouse gases, and adds to the problem of over-population."

While most parents view their children as the ultimate miracle of nature, Toni seems to see them as a sinister threat to the future.

It's an extreme stance which one might imagine is born from an unhappy childhood or an upbringing among parents who share similar, strong beliefs.

But nothing in Toni's safe, middle- class upbringing gave any clues as to the views which would shape her adult life. The eldest of three daughters, she enjoyed a loving, close-knit family life.

She excelled at her Roman Catholic school, and her doting parents fully expected her to grow up, settle down and start a family of her own.

"When I finished school, I got a job in retail and at 19, I met my first husband," says Toni.

"No sooner had we finished our wedding cake than all our relatives started to ask when they could expect a new addition to the family.

"I always told them that would never happen, but no one listened.

"When I was a child, I loved bird-watching, and in my teens that developed into a passion for the environment as well as the welfare of animals - I became a vegetarian when I was 15.

"Even my parents used to smile and say: 'You'll change your mind one day about babies.'

"The only person who understood how I felt was my first husband, who didn't want children either.

"We both passionately wanted to save the planet - not produce a new life which would only add to the problem."

So, instead of mapping out plans for a family, Toni and her husband began discussing medical options to ensure they would never reproduce.

Toni, from Taunton, Somerset, says: "When I was 21, I considered sterilisation for the first time.

"I'd been on the Pill for five years and didn't want to take hormone-based contraception indefinitely.

"I went to my GP, but she wouldn't even consider the idea.

"She said I was far too young and told me I could 'absolutely not' be sterilised, and that I was bound to change my mind one day.

"I found her attitude frustrating.

"We decided my husband would have a vasectomy instead. He was 25, just a few years older than me, but the GP allowed him to go ahead.

"I found it insulting that she thought that, just because I was a woman, I'd reach a point where an urge to breed would overcome all rational thought."

When Toni was 23, her marriage ended. She says: "We married very young and grew apart."

Toni found herself young, single and with a new life in London, working for an environmental charity.

But while other young women dream of marriage and babies, Toni was convinced it was her duty not to have a child.

She claims she was far from alone.

"Through my job I made many friends who, like me, were more interested in campaigning, trying to change society and save the planet rather than having families of our own.

"We used to say that if ever we did want children, we'd adopt, as there are so many children in need of a loving family.

"At least then, we'd be doing something positive for the world, rather than something negative."

Toni was happy, at last, with fellow environmentalists who shared her philosophy. But when she was 25, disaster struck.

"I discovered that despite taking the Pill, I'd accidentally fallen pregnant by my boyfriend.

"I was horrified. I knew straight away there was no option of having the baby.

"I went to my doctor about having a termination, and asked if I could be sterilised at the same time.

"This time it was a male doctor. I remember saying to him: 'I want to make sure this never happens again.'

"He said: 'You may not want a child, but one day you may meet a man who does'. He refused to consider it.

"I didn't like having a termination, but it would have been immoral to give birth to a child that I felt strongly would only be a burden to the world.

"I've never felt a twinge of guilt about what I did, and have honestly never wondered what might have been.

"After my abortion, I was more determined than ever to pursue sterilisation.

"By then, I had my mother's support - she realised I wasn't going to grow out of my beliefs, and was proud of my campaigning work."

At the age of 27, Toni moved to Brighton, where her dream of medical intervention was realised.

Toni says: "My new GP was more forward-thinking and referred me to hospital. I couldn't wait for the operation."

As Toni awaited the surgery which would destroy her fertility, she met her future husband, Ed, 38, an IT consultant.

"A week before my sterilisation, I went to an animal rights demonstration and met Ed.

"I liked him immediately, and I told him what I was doing straight away - because if he wanted children then he needed to know I wasn't the woman for him," she says.

"But Ed was relieved when I told him how I felt and said he didn't want children for the same reasons."

On the morning of surgery, Ed gave Toni a card saying "Congratulations".

Toni says: "After the operation, which is irreversible, I didn't feel emotional - just relieved.

"I've never doubted that I made the right decision. Ed and I married in September 2002, and have a much nicer lifestyle as a result of not having children.

"We love walking and hiking, and we often go away for weekends.

"Every year, we also take a nice holiday - we've just come back from South Africa.

"We feel we can have one long-haul flight a year, as we are vegan and childless, thereby greatly reducing our carbon footprint and combating over-population.

"My only frustration is that other people are unable to accept my decision.

"When I tell people why I don't want children, they look at me as if I was planning to commit murder.

"A woman who does not have maternal-feelings is seen as some sort of anomaly.

"And a woman like me, who is not having children in order to save the planet, is considered barking mad.

"What I consider mad are those women who ferry their children short distances in gas-guzzling cars."

But Toni is far from alone.

When Sarah Irving, 31, was a teenager she sat down and wrote a wish-list for the future.

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Sarah Irving and Mark Hudson were adamant they would live the greenest possible lives

Most young girls dream of marriage and babies. But Sarah dreamed of helping the environment - and as she agonised over the perils of climate change, the loss of animal species and destruction of wilderness, she came to the extraordinary decision never to have a child.

"I realised then that a baby would pollute the planet - and that never having a child was the most environmentally friendly thing I could do."

Sarah's boyfriends have been less understanding than Toni's, with the breakdown of several relationships.

"I've had boyfriends who wanted children, so I knew I couldn't be with them long term,' says Sarah.

"I've had to break up with a couple of boyfriends because I didn't think it was fair to waste their time.

"In my early 20s I had a boyfriend who I really liked, but he wanted to start a family as soon as possible.

"I was tempted to stay with him and hope he would change his mind, but I knew I couldn't provide him with what he wanted so I walked away."

Sarah started work for the Ethical Consumer magazine, and seven years ago she met her fiancÈ Mark Hudson, a 37-year- old health- care worker.

When they started dating in 2003, they immediately discussed their views on children.

"To my relief, Mark was as adamant as me that he didn't want a family. After a year of dating, we started talking about sterilisation," says Sarah.

"I didn't want to have an 'accident' if contraception didn't work - we would be faced with the dilemma of whether to keep the baby."

While other young couples sit down and discuss mortgages, Sarah and Mark discussed the medical options for one or the other to be sterilised.

"We realised it was a much more straightforward procedure, safer and easier, for a man to be sterilised through a vasectomy than a woman to be sterilised," says Sarah.

"In January 2005, Mark had a vasectomy and we both felt incredibly relieved there was no chance of us having a baby."

Ironically, the couple who have decided to deny themselves children for the sake of the planet, actively enjoy the company of young children.

Sarah says: "We both have nieces who we love dearly and I consider myself a caring, nurturing person.

"My sister recently had a little girl, and that has taken the pressure off me because my parents wanted to be grandparents.

"At first, they were surprised by my decision, but they have never criticised us.

"I'd never dream of preaching to others about having a family. It's a very personal choice. What I do like to do is make people aware of the facts.

"When I see a mother with a large family, I don't resent her, but I do hope she's thought through the implications."

Mark adds: "Sarah and I live as green a life a possible. We don't have a car, cycle everywhere instead, and we never fly.

"We recycle, use low-energy light bulbs and eat only organic, locally produced food.

"In short, we do everything we can to reduce our carbon footprint. But all this would be undone if we had a child.

"That's why I had a vasectomy. It would be morally wrong for me to add to climate change and the destruction of Earth.

"Sarah and I don't need children to feel complete. What makes us happy is knowing that we are doing our bit to save our precious planet."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: greens
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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The title of the newspaper article should have read: "Idiots who believe that people are pollution--thank heaven, they are not reproducing!"

What the couples in this story don't realize is that it is the people who have children, who will determine the direction that the culture takes in the future and that when childless couples die, their beliefs die with them. Which is good.

1 posted on 11/23/2007 4:50:47 AM PST by steadfastconservative
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To: steadfastconservative

Why can’t this be a muslim belief?


2 posted on 11/23/2007 4:53:07 AM PST by chopperman
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To: steadfastconservative

More Liberal insanity.

Liberalism is a mental disorder. So many of them simply have never been taught how to think.


3 posted on 11/23/2007 4:53:40 AM PST by kjo
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To: steadfastconservative

it’s like gays, they recruit


4 posted on 11/23/2007 4:54:19 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Beat a better path, and the world will build a mousetrap at your door.)
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To: steadfastconservative

It’s interesting that, in our contemporary society, people who are obviously insane are treated as if they were of sound mind.


5 posted on 11/23/2007 4:54:38 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: chopperman

If only her mother would have had an abortion. All would be well in her wacko world.


6 posted on 11/23/2007 4:55:25 AM PST by RetiredArmy (If Marxist's Dimocrat Party & the Fed Gov want my guns, COME AND TRY TO GET THEM!)
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To: RetiredArmy

Maybe she and her husband should just off themselves. Or, is the root of the problem that they are just plain selfish?


7 posted on 11/23/2007 4:57:14 AM PST by NewHampshireDuo (Earth - Taking care of itself since 4.6 billion BC)
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To: RetiredArmy

Somehow I doubt if this woman would ever admit that her mother had every right to have an abortion and that it would have been a good thing for the planet if she had done so.


8 posted on 11/23/2007 4:58:56 AM PST by steadfastconservative
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To: NewHampshireDuo

Yup. Just like all these liberal pigs who complain about the world being over populated and that mankind should be culled out or something. I offer they should begin by killing themselves and assisting the green world view. But, you know liberals, all this stuff is good for US to do, not THEM.


9 posted on 11/23/2007 4:58:57 AM PST by RetiredArmy (If Marxist's Dimocrat Party & the Fed Gov want my guns, COME AND TRY TO GET THEM!)
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To: steadfastconservative

A little chlorine in the gene pool every now and then is not a bad thing.


10 posted on 11/23/2007 5:00:56 AM PST by Coastie ("You gotta go out, you don't have to come back"- CG motto (unofficial))
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To: chopperman
LOL a mental disorder indeed.
11 posted on 11/23/2007 5:01:41 AM PST by Archon of the East (Universal Executive Power of the Law of Nature)
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To: wideawake

These types of people feel so morally superior to the rest of us. They worship Al Gore and carbon footprints the way other people go to church and worship God.

She’s a hypocrite because she will feel entitled someday to getting her social security and government benefits, or whatever the British equivalent is. And those benefits will be paid for by somebody else’s children.


12 posted on 11/23/2007 5:01:55 AM PST by Dilbert San Diego
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To: steadfastconservative
Ayn Rand wrote about people like this woman. She has made a choice between life and death--a choice only humans can make.

Her only logical flaw is that she has failed to follow her passion for death to its logical conclusion--suicide.

Her notion that each new person is a net cost to society and the planet is true--under socialism.

Under capitalism each person is a valuable asset to all of us.

That is why each loss of economic liberty to government control is a vote for human suffering and death.

In the "mixed economy" of today it is understandable that she is confused whether life or death should be a value.

She is not insane in my view--she is merely too stupid to understand her political and economic environment and too emotional to make a serious attempt to face the meaning of her decision.


13 posted on 11/23/2007 5:06:26 AM PST by cgbg (The fight has just begun against the bully (nanny) state.)
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To: kjo

Let’s just be thankful that she is ending that gene pool. She is doing the rest of us a favor. </sarcasm>

Actually, it’s quite scary that there are people who would go to the lengths this woman would. Rational people believe that she will one day “see the light”. I doubt it. She has now committed herself to a path of (self-defined, and lack of a better term) “righteousness” that she can ill afford to betray.

Such is her insanity that she will continue the charade, regardless of any doubts, because her belief in her own “Self-righteousness” is so strong, that to admit she is wrong is to admit that she is not perfect.

Selfish would seem to apply as much, if not more, to her.

or at least, self-centered.


14 posted on 11/23/2007 5:07:19 AM PST by RangerM
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To: steadfastconservative

Now Thank We All Our God... that these churls do not spawn.


15 posted on 11/23/2007 5:09:02 AM PST by Dr. Thorne (Compromise on your vote and you get a compromised government.)
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To: cgbg
She is not insane in my view--she is merely too stupid to understand her political and economic environment and too emotional to make a serious attempt to face the meaning of her decision.

With her outlook I think it is great she will not reproduce.

16 posted on 11/23/2007 5:15:24 AM PST by TYVets (God so loved the world he didn't send a committee)
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To: cgbg

Very astute reply.


17 posted on 11/23/2007 5:16:33 AM PST by Misschuck
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To: Dilbert San Diego
She’s a hypocrite because she will feel entitled someday to getting her social security and government benefits, or whatever the British equivalent is. And those benefits will be paid for by somebody else’s children.

Well said. These women are hypocrites in a number of ways.

(1) Each of them, living in the UK, have a "carbon footprint" far, far, far larger than a family of six in India, say. But neither of them would ever dream of consciously and intentionally living in poverty in order to live up to their ideals.

(2) They say that it is selfish to have children, but one of them claims to love other people's children. People do not love children when they consider children to be an immoral and selfish burden on the planet.

(3) If their goal is the reduction of the number of human beings on the planet, they are hypocrites for not committing suicide. That is obviously the most direct and foolproof method of reducing the human population they believe is poisoning the earth.

(4) Plenty of gung-ho environmentalists have children. So these women can give whatever rationalization they want for not having children - it is automatically hollow.

(5) When they are elderly, as you pointed out, they will have no children to look after them. As a result, they will become a responsibility of the state and therefore of other people's children. Not only that, but the state is the least efficient caregiver possible for the elderly - if these women and their spouses (can't really call them husbands) live as long as they are expected to, they will spend thirty years living off other people's taxes and labor.

18 posted on 11/23/2007 5:16:42 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that so many self-proclaimed "Constitutionalists" know so little about the Constitution?)
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To: steadfastconservative

I can hardly wait until this idiot hits the nursing home circuit. They may not change her for weeks. She won’t have children to see that she is not abused. Even now, you see these old women that nobody visits. This lady subscribes to the liberal mantra “killing the culture, one abortion at a time”..


19 posted on 11/23/2007 5:18:52 AM PST by Goreknowshowtocheat
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To: steadfastconservative

The Muslims must cheer when they read stories like this.


20 posted on 11/23/2007 5:19:02 AM PST by iowamark
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To: steadfastconservative

This woman doesn’t want to be a mother but instead of explaining her reasoning she resorts to silly grandstanding in order to allay her guilt feelings. It’s a relief that she won’t be screwing up some kid.


21 posted on 11/23/2007 5:19:29 AM PST by Misterioso
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To: chopperman

The Muslims would publicly execute this woman.


22 posted on 11/23/2007 5:21:04 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: NewHampshireDuo

If these folks really believe there are too many people for this wonderful world, they should do their 40 or 50 years, commit suicide and let someone else enjoy it for a while. But, not surprisingly, none of them want to do that. Instead, they’ll want to hang around forever using up resources well past their own ability to make any useful contribution. It’s not the case that they think there are too many people in the world...it’s that they think there are too many OTHER people.


23 posted on 11/23/2007 5:22:52 AM PST by bigcat00
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To: steadfastconservative
Because when Toni terminated her pregnancy, she did so in the firm belief she was helping to save the planet.

There are monsters among us.
24 posted on 11/23/2007 5:24:09 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (Ron Paul put the cuckoo in my Cocoa Puffs)
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To: steadfastconservative

25 posted on 11/23/2007 5:26:38 AM PST by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote.)
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To: steadfastconservative
I think it's sad that many on the left have fallen for the fearmongering of the environmental movement to the point of stuff like this.

I know a girl (I think she's in her late 20's) who is married but decided not to have babies, because of so-called overpopulation... and I think it's so sad, because these are myths being pushed, for a political agenda.

26 posted on 11/23/2007 5:28:34 AM PST by incindiary
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To: steadfastconservative

Is this the script of a horror movie? How sad that people so young can be so embittered towards the world and life that they do this to themselves.


27 posted on 11/23/2007 5:36:58 AM PST by FreeManWhoCan (An American in Miami)
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To: steadfastconservative

Good riddance. Two nincompoops who believe the tired old lefty nonsense about there being too many people and too few resources, have elected to commit genetic suicide. Best news I’ve had all day.

Literal numb-nuts like these two should take a good look at history. The worldwide famines predicted by Malthus, Paul Ehrlich (author of the “Population Bomb”) and others for the middle of the 20th century never came to pass.

If they want to find starving people today, they need to look at totalitarian regimes like Cuba, Zimbabwe and North Korea. These sunny socialist utopias are hells on earth: stark testaments to the most deadly force in human history - communism.


28 posted on 11/23/2007 5:46:04 AM PST by agere_contra (Do not confuse the wealth of nations with the wealth of government - FDT)
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To: steadfastconservative
I guess it's a waste of time to inform this self-hating zealot that the entire developed world is facing population collapse over the next several decades. The only exception is the United States, and we're importing our stabilized replacement rate. I guess there's a strange sort of logic to this woman's beliefs, since the collapse of the west will lead to no more third world aid, thereby removing even more "pollution" from the planet. Margaret Sanger is trilling in hell, at the impending doom of so many she deemed "human weeds." Mass psychosis, that's the only plausible explanation.
29 posted on 11/23/2007 5:48:00 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: steadfastconservative

People like this have a God sized hole in their hearts...maybe their heads.


30 posted on 11/23/2007 5:48:22 AM PST by sierrahome
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To: steadfastconservative

There is an abundance of this brain-washing done at university campuses. If everyone practiced this anti-child religion, there would be no need for universities or professors, of course, but these God-hating rock worshipers don’t think that far.
I hope these couples are saving their money for their old age, because they certainly should not be expecting our children and grandchildren to pony up for their care with tax dollars.
They have contributed virtually nothing to the society and its future.


31 posted on 11/23/2007 5:54:03 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: steadfastconservative
"Come on, come on. I want to get a picture of you all where the urban lefties died out years ago!"


32 posted on 11/23/2007 6:02:52 AM PST by Leisler (RNC, RINO National Committee. Always was, always will be.)
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To: steadfastconservative
"I realised then that a baby would pollute the planet"

Your Mother didn't think the same....


33 posted on 11/23/2007 6:05:13 AM PST by traditional1
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To: raybbr

The Typical (NOW) WOMYN on display and or in other words, a POS.
Respectfully,
NSNR


34 posted on 11/23/2007 6:06:26 AM PST by No Surrender No Retreat (Xin Loi My Boy!!!!)
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To: steadfastconservative
"Every year, we also take a nice holiday - we've just come back from South Africa. "We feel we can have one long-haul flight a year, as we are vegan and childless, thereby greatly reducing our carbon footprint and combating over-population.

She should have a great, big, red letter H stamped on her forehead for being such a hypocrite.

35 posted on 11/23/2007 6:11:31 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: NewHampshireDuo

Selfish. They do manage that one long haul flight every year.


36 posted on 11/23/2007 6:12:17 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: steadfastconservative
"Having children is selfish. It's all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet," says Toni, 35.

I suspect Toni wanted to punish her parents for not giving her more... This reeks of spoiled brat syndrome.

37 posted on 11/23/2007 6:13:28 AM PST by GOPJ (Hillary "tricky Dick" Nixon/Clinton. - Stiff a waitress - lie about it. Plant questions - lie more)
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To: steadfastconservative

At least their kids will be spared the humiliation of learning that the global warming in which their parents so ardently believed was cruel hoax and an utter fraud.


38 posted on 11/23/2007 6:16:21 AM PST by The Great RJ ("Mir we bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: wideawake

Exactly. If this woman thinks childbirth is ruining the planet, she is insane. However, IMHO she is just using her misinformed devotion to the planet to hide her aversion to children.


39 posted on 11/23/2007 6:17:39 AM PST by abclily
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To: steadfastconservative

If you are not propagating the species, then you are really sponging up resources to no productive end.

It is only for your personal, hedonistic pleasures that you continue to exist.

Talk about being selfish, and being a useless drag on the ecology....


40 posted on 11/23/2007 6:18:59 AM PST by steve in DC
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To: metmom

Her Mum and Dad must be so proud! And so happy they don’t have to enjoy grandchildren. What a waste of time that would be.


41 posted on 11/23/2007 6:21:06 AM PST by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")
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To: steadfastconservative

They should off themselves and complete the job.


42 posted on 11/23/2007 6:25:42 AM PST by junta (It's Poltical Correctness stupid! Hold liberals accountable for their actions, a new idea.)
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To: cgbg

I don’t think that she is insane or stupid. She is selfish and she is rationalizing that selfishness by claiming that her choice is good for the environment. She is denying to others the goods of the earth, the good of life, which she herself enjoys.


43 posted on 11/23/2007 6:27:27 AM PST by steadfastconservative
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To: traditional1

thanks for the thanksgiving puke!!!!


44 posted on 11/23/2007 6:31:45 AM PST by nyyankeefan
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To: steadfastconservative
"In short, we do everything we can to reduce our carbon footprint. ... It would be morally wrong for me to add to climate change and the destruction of Earth."

Just imagine all the Earth destroying power that went into publishing this particular story in print and on the Internet. Thousands of acts were set in motion when the subjects of this story agreed to blab a little bit about their moronic outlook on life. Trees were killed so that this story could be printed. Fuel was burned at various points along the way. Energy was consumed. Even now, as we all sit in our homes, we are the hapless victims/accomplices of these so called eco-friendly citizens. The doomsday clock just clicked another few seconds ahead, thanks to these selfish rat-bastards. I hope they can live with that.

:P

45 posted on 11/23/2007 6:49:43 AM PST by new cruelty
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To: steadfastconservative

Darwinism at work. Methinks we don’t want her offspring around....more welfare mouths to feed. Why welfare? That kind of thinking shows the signs of a future English major....who will publish in the Journal of Modern Languages and have no source of income save for some “university” taking our taxes and burning the money. Sheesh.....give her the abortion now!!


46 posted on 11/23/2007 7:04:41 AM PST by Da Coyote
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To: agere_contra
Two nincompoops who believe the tired old lefty nonsense about there being too many people and too few resources, have elected to commit genetic suicide. Best news I’ve had all day.

In a way, that's true. Unfortunately for us, as confirmed fanatics, they will relentlessly crusade to force their insane views on us for the rest of their miserable, twisted lives.

These are now totalitarian activists who will never, ever stop in their quest to validate their own eco-fascist pathologies by making the rest of us adhere to them. They have cut off their noses to spite their faces and they will make the rest of us do the same if they can accomplish it.

47 posted on 11/23/2007 8:11:46 AM PST by Gritty (The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, limited by the state-Kenneth Boulding)
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To: raybbr
re #25?
You can bet your bottom dollar.

...not with a turkey baster.

48 posted on 11/23/2007 8:14:48 AM PST by Landru (Reality hits the faithful the hardest.)
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To: RangerM
Selfish and ungrateful.

Whether you follow a particular religion or are an atheist, it is an undeniable fact that it took a heck of a lot of effort to pass the spark of life, the primordial life force, or what ever you care to call it, on to you. It is an act of supreme ingratitude all the way back to the very beginning of your line of predecessors (human and/or otherwise) to say you have so little regard for this most precious gift, that you don’t want to pass it on to at least one person in the next generation.

Further, the effort required to responsibly conceive, care for, and guide children to adulthood is, in my opinion, perhaps the key experience that helps develop a sense of generosity and compassion in individual human beings. It also provides a transcendent shared common experience that can act as a basis for interaction among what are otherwise highly diverse peoples and cultures.

This is not an argument for high birthrates or for compulsory parenthood. There are clearly persons who have no business becoming parents. There is, arguably, a point where a family or a nation can have severe problems with having too many children (just as it can with too few children being born). The acknowledged “no net growth rate” for reproduction at the societal level is 2.1 children per woman (split almost evenly between males and females at birth). Obviously, this woman’s lack of participation (and any others like her) will be offset by women who have three or more children. However, when there are too many women having too few babies (as is currently the case in western Europe, Russia, and Japan), you get population contraction which can have devastating military, political, economic, and environmental effects on society.

There is some truth in the argument that the deliberately childless, especially those who decide to take that stance for ecological reasons, should go ahead and commit suicide. They continue to consume resources as long as they are alive. Very few of them (like the rest of us) are likely to live lives of such outstanding merit that it can justify their continued burden on the earth (poor, poor Mother Earth). This is especially true after middle age when they begin to consume resources in greater amounts than they themselves can offset by their own productive efforts. At that point, they become parasites. Now, if they had children and grand children, they could claim that their continued resource needs are offset by the surplus in the productive efforts of their descendants.

Of course, I don’t personally believe in or endorse this suicide argument because it is an affront to Almighty God, the creator and sustainer of all.

49 posted on 11/23/2007 8:16:42 AM PST by Captain Rhino ( If we have the WILL to do it, there is nothing built in China that we cannot do without.)
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To: steadfastconservative
and that when childless couples die, their beliefs die with them. Which is good.

Real nice. Some people can't have kids you know.

50 posted on 11/23/2007 8:20:21 AM PST by Fawn (http://www.brightlion.com/InHope/InHope_en.aspx)
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