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Does Skull Prove That The First Americans Came From Europe?
UTexas.edu ^ | 12-03-2002 | Steve Conner

Posted on 11/24/2007 11:28:47 AM PST by blam

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To: Regulator
Almost forgot, AIRPORTS and NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS are not manifestations of European culture.

Americans invented and developed those features of the modern world. Americans built the steel skyscrapers.

What Europeans and East Asians do is a pale imitation of the real thing.

51 posted on 11/24/2007 5:25:22 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
After that it's illegal aliens all the way down

Speak for yourself, sport. Not the way we see it.

52 posted on 11/24/2007 5:26:38 PM PST by Regulator
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To: blam
If true (and I hope it is)....

...La Raza, MeCHa, and all the reconquista and "native" American groups will be deeply saddened. ...and will do their utmost to downplay the evidence.

53 posted on 11/24/2007 5:28:13 PM PST by Mr. Mojo (“Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors and miss.")
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To: muawiyah
Americans invented and developed those features of the modern world

Gee, really?

Nuclear Power

Aircraft (Ergo, Airports)

54 posted on 11/24/2007 5:29:19 PM PST by Regulator
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To: Regulator
"Wishful thinking and nonsense. "

That number is commonly seen in discussions of the number of people in S America, pre-European landing.

55 posted on 11/24/2007 5:32:17 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: Regulator
There are numerous non-hispanic sources regarding the Mexican population at the time of the coming of the Spanish.

Now, back to your theory that English speaking Europeans living in the Old World invented the skyscraper, the nuclear reactor, the airplane, the automobile, etc.

They didn't.

Elwood Haynes invented the automobile in Indiana. The Wright Brothers grew up in Indiana and invented the airplane in Ohio. Dr. Geiger invented the geiger counter in Indiana (thereby making it possible to find radioactive materials to touch off the nuclear age).

Getting real narrowly defined here, and noting that the first skyscraper was built in Chicago, I'd say that EVERYTHING worth having in the modern world was invented in a small part of the world where the dominant language was German, and it wasn't in Europe.

56 posted on 11/24/2007 5:33:57 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Regulator

You guys are asking for a trip back home, if you know what I mean.


57 posted on 11/24/2007 5:35:06 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Regulator

Cayley built gliders. The Wright Brothers invented the real thing ~ POWERED FLIGHT. Without them there are no airports. Without Cayley there are fewer wrecked gliders at the bottom of cliffs.


58 posted on 11/24/2007 5:36:54 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: blam
the number of people in S America, pre-European landing

Recall that he claimed it for Mexico

59 posted on 11/24/2007 5:43:34 PM PST by Regulator
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To: muawiyah
You guys are asking for a trip back home, if you know what I mean

You and your Arab Army gonna push us?

60 posted on 11/24/2007 5:44:08 PM PST by Regulator
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To: outofstyle
Thor Heyerdahl would not have been surprised.

He would doubtless appreciate the irony that he was trying to show early immigration from the South Pacific, whereas the first immigrants may actually have been his own ancestors.

61 posted on 11/24/2007 5:44:23 PM PST by Erasmus (My simplifying explanation had the disconcerting side effect of making the subject incomprehensible.)
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To: muawiyah
There are numerous non-hispanic sources regarding the Mexican population at the time of the coming of the Spanish

Groovy. Quote them.

62 posted on 11/24/2007 5:44:52 PM PST by Regulator
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To: blam
I read that Mayans, Incas, and Mapuches had the same rate of Rh negative blood as Celtic and Basques, which leads to the possibility they are from Europe.
Lacandon Maya

This website had a picture gallery of them and some have blonde and red hair. I've seen photos of Mapuches of South America and they look more Caucasian to me. Anazasi relics look very Celtic to me.
Ancient America
63 posted on 11/24/2007 6:28:05 PM PST by Ptarmigan (Bunnies=Sodomites)
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To: muawiyah
There are numerous non-hispanic sources regarding the Mexican population at the time of the coming of the Spanish.

That's interesting.

Who constituted the Mexican population at the time of the coming of the Spanish?

Or, are you lumping everybody in together just to stir the pot to a roiling boil?

64 posted on 11/24/2007 6:33:09 PM PST by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: muawiyah
Elwood Haynes invented the automobile in Indiana.

What?!?

Karl Benz' Motorwagen was being commercially produced in 1886, eight years before Haynes produced his first car.

65 posted on 11/24/2007 6:47:08 PM PST by B Knotts (Tancredo '08!)
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To: muawiyah
Elwood Haynes invented the automobile in Indiana.

Elwood Haynes invented an automobile in Indiana. Karl Benz invented the first automobile in Germany.

Dr. Geiger invented the geiger counter in Indiana (thereby making it possible to find radioactive materials to touch off the nuclear age).

Erlangen, Manchester, Berlin, Keil, Tuebingen. When was Hans Geiger in Indiana?

66 posted on 11/24/2007 6:51:44 PM PST by Erasmus (My simplifying explanation had the disconcerting side effect of making the subject incomprehensible.)
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To: Erasmus
His house is about 3 blocks away from where I am now sitting.

You FOB types think you've got all the answers ~ that nothing went on before your folks got here ~ but it did ~ everything truly meaningful in fact.

Remember, if Europe is so great you are welcome to return there.

67 posted on 11/24/2007 7:03:47 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: rightazrain
More info that shoots down the Mormon claims of the Lost Tribe of Israel.

The lost tribe of Israel reference is of just one group Mormons claimed settled on the American continent. That one was way too early for that, assuming the 12000 year old numbers are correct. What you are referring to is what we (yes I am LDS) believe happened in 600 bc, that is a group of people from Jerusalem, from the tribe of Joseph, referenced here:
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/1

Much earlier, we believe another group came from the scattering at the Tower of Babel, referenced here:
http://scriptures.lds.org/ether/1

Even earlier, we believe that civilization began on this continent, and continued here, from Adam to the flood. It was when the earth was divided right after Noah in the days of Peleg that we believe there was a separation between the old and new worlds, referenced here:
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/10/25#25

I’m not here to argue my faith, I don't have the time I used to. I am just setting the record straight as to our beliefs about the timeline of some migrations here.

All the best.

68 posted on 11/24/2007 8:06:51 PM PST by sevenbak (Wise men still seek Him.)
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To: blam

She was 26 years old? Really? Not 25, not 27? What, did they find her driver’s license with her 13,000 year old skull?


69 posted on 11/24/2007 8:07:49 PM PST by News Junkie (Faith and Reason)
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To: blam

My Japanese American DIL has a long narrow face. Not all Asians look like Siberans. Chances are there were many migrations, not one, and that some came from Southern Asia.


70 posted on 11/24/2007 8:10:43 PM PST by the Real fifi
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To: blam
Opps! Sherman... looks like we need to fire up the Wayback Machine again!

Goash, Mr. Peabody, did we forget... something?

Yes... Marty McFly!

71 posted on 11/24/2007 8:12:15 PM PST by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: rightazrain
More info that shoots down the Mormon claims of the Lost Tribe of Israel.

As a followup to this, I will point out some interesting stuff that I’ve found in recent months.

The conquistador, Pedro Pizarro, reported in his account of the great Spanish invasion of South America in the 1500s, that while the masses of Andes Indians were small and dark, the members of the ruling Inca family were tall and had whiter skins than the Spaniards themselves. He talks of them having blue eyes, corn-blonde hair and white skins.

Read pages 36 and 37 of this book, “Indians in the Americas, the untold story.” It’s quite interesting, and it’s not LDS, but has many accounts of similar encounters with white skinned, light hair Indians.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Obgdz8auwkMC&printsec=frontcover

Also, there have been threads here recently talking about the mummies found in South America - on the Pacific coast, in the desert sand of Paracas, there are large burial caves in which numerous mummies have been perfectly preserved.
Some of the mummies were found to have the stiff black hair of the Indians, while others, which have been kept in the same conditions, have red, often chestnut-colored hair, “silky and wavy, as found amongst Europeans, they have long skulls and remarkably tall bodies. Hair experts have shown by microscopic analysis, that the red hair has all the characteristics that ordinarily distinguish a Nordic hair type from that of Mongols or American Indians.” (Heyerdahl, ibid., pages 351, 352).

Also, when the Spaniards came to Lake Titicaca, up in the Andes, they found the mightiest ruins in all South America - Tiahuanaco. They saw a hill reshaped by man into a stepped pyramid, classical masonry of enormous blocks, beautifully dressed and fitted together, and numerous large statues in human form. They asked the Indians to tell them who had left these enormous ruins.

The well known chronicler, Cieza de Leon, was told in reply that these things had been made long before the Incas came to power. They were made by White and bearded men like the Spaniards themselves. (Heyerdahl, ibid., page 253).

The White men had finally abandoned their statues and gone with the leader, Con-Ticci Viracocha, first up to Cuzco, and then down to the Pacific. They were given the Inca name of Viracocha, or “sea foam’, because they were white skinned and vanished like foam over the sea.

Also, here’s an old FR discussion on some of this stuff:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1714661/posts

___________________________________________________________________________

Both Daniel Boone and Lewis and Clark said they encountered blue eyed blond Indians during their explorations, mapping excursions.

http://books.google.com/books?id=2g5_u2AK9rcC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=daniel+boone+%22blue+eyed%22+natives&source=web&ots=vic-UqyaDQ&sig=o3FNct0SVXg2D7LoKTTYzP3HS6w#PPP1,M1

____________________________________________________________________

72 posted on 11/24/2007 9:02:56 PM PST by sevenbak (Wise men still seek Him.)
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To: muawiyah

?????????????????

The Chippewa, aka Ojibway, are from the western Great Lakes region in Canada.

There was considerable movement in North America of Native American Tribes during historical times, e.g. the Shawanees, Lenni Lenape and Dakotas. I doubt that historica timees represented an abberation.


73 posted on 11/24/2007 9:48:00 PM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: Regulator; muawiyah
Historical Review: Megadrought And Megadeath In 16th Century Mexico (Hemorrhagic Fever)
74 posted on 11/24/2007 9:55:55 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

“Does Skull Prove That The First Americans Came From Europe?”


Yes, I thought everybody knew that already.

W


75 posted on 11/24/2007 9:59:21 PM PST by WLR (Defeating Liberalism and The East since 500 BC Iran delinda est.)
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To: muawiyah

Whose house? Geiger’s? Show me evidence that he ever worked in Indiana.

If you mean Elwood Haynes, fine; but Karl Benz had him beat by almost ten years.

“FOB type” gave me a chuckle, I confess.


76 posted on 11/24/2007 10:33:49 PM PST by Erasmus (My simplifying explanation had the disconcerting side effect of making the subject incomprehensible.)
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To: muawiyah
And wouldn't that suggest that the Solutreans some how crossed the Atlantic? If memory serves me correctly one of the problems with the Clovis first theory is that researchers could not trace the stone blades completely back to Asia but as you aptly noted are very similar to artifacts found in Souther Europe..

Atlantic Crossing

http://www.abotech.com/Articles/atlantictheory.htm
77 posted on 11/25/2007 4:45:41 AM PST by Kid Shelleen (Aztlan My Azz: La Raza is Spanish for Tan Klan)
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To: Kid Shelleen
"And wouldn't that suggest that the Solutreans some how crossed the Atlantic? If memory serves me correctly one of the problems with the Clovis first theory is that researchers could not trace the stone blades completely back to Asia but as you aptly noted are very similar to artifacts found in Souther Europe."

Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)

Iberia, Not Siberia

78 posted on 11/25/2007 6:59:46 AM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: shamusotoole

Kennewick Man and Luzia (A comparison)

79 posted on 11/25/2007 7:04:42 AM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

The photo on the right always reminds me of Patrick Stewart from Star Trek.


80 posted on 11/25/2007 1:06:49 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: blam

http://users.on.net/~mkfenn/Catastrophes.htm

Legends describe what happened:

“The water having poured over the land (2km thick ice sheet collapses into the sea),

human dwellings disappeared. The wind carried them away.

They fastened several boats to one another.

The waves traversed the Rocky Mountains.

A great wind drove them.

Presently the moon and the sun disappeared (atmospheric dust, post impact).

Men died of a terrible heat (firestorms post impact).

They also perished in the waves.

Men bewailed what happened.

Uprooted trees floated about in the waves.

Men having fastened boats together trembled with cold.

The above translation is attributed to the native tribe called the Esquimaux of Canada. Just one of hundreds of flood traditions that many scholars have collected.

Also from further south in the Carolinas we have the following very interesting tradition:

“a star fell to the earth, and rain soon followed (oceanic impact, causing vast amounts of water to evaporate).

Days and days of rain quenched the fire.

Great holes burned in the earth by the fire were filled,

forming a great inland sea...


81 posted on 11/25/2007 2:01:19 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Fair dinkum!)
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To: Ptarmigan
brilliant link, thanks...


82 posted on 11/25/2007 2:07:07 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Fair dinkum!)
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To: sevenbak
25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided...

Exanding Earth?

83 posted on 11/25/2007 2:21:48 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Fair dinkum!)
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To: Fred Nerks
'First Americans Were Australian'
84 posted on 11/25/2007 3:01:34 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
First Americans
85 posted on 11/25/2007 3:09:09 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

Aboriginal history is not a history of isolation with a local Aboriginal pointing to a painting of an Indonesian prau (boat).

86 posted on 11/25/2007 4:15:55 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Fair dinkum!)
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To: Fred Nerks
Thanks for the map. I've wondered exactly where Solo Man was found. Hmmmm. Not far from Flores Island where the 'Hobbits' were found. BTW, Flores remained an island even during the Ice Age.
87 posted on 11/25/2007 4:27:32 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam
perhaps these links will be useful...

http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~pbrown3/ausindex.html

http://www.canovan.com/HumanOrigin/kow/kowswamp.htm

Just another can of worms!

88 posted on 11/25/2007 4:59:15 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Fair dinkum!)
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Scientists in Britain have identified the oldest skeleton ever found on the American continent in a discovery that raises fresh questions about the accepted theory of how the first people arrived in the New World. The skeleton's perfectly preserved skull belonged to a 26-year-old woman who died during the last ice age on the edge of a giant prehistoric lake which once formed around an area now occupied by the sprawling suburbs of Mexico City.

Scientists from Liverpool's John Moores University and Oxford's Research Laboratory of Archaeology have dated the skull to about 13,000 years old, making it 2,000 years older than the previous record for the continent's oldest human remains. However, the most intriguing aspect of the skull is that it is long and narrow and typically Caucasian in appearance, like the heads of white, western Europeans today. Modern-day native Americans, however, have short, wide skulls that are typical of their Mongoloid ancestors who are known to have crossed into America from Asia on an ice-age land bridge that had formed across the Bering Strait.

The extreme age of Peñon woman suggests two scenarios. Either there was a much earlier migration of Caucasian-like people with long, narrow skulls across the Bering Strait and that these people were later replaced by a subsequent migration of Mongoloid people. Alternatively, and more controversially, a group of Stone Age people from Europe made the perilous sea journey across the Atlantic Ocean many thousands of years before Columbus or the Vikings.

Silvia Gonzalez, a Mexican-born archaeologist working at John Moores University and the leader of the research team, accepted yesterday that her discovery lends weight to the highly contentious idea that the first Americans may have actually been Europeans. "At the moment it points to that as being likely. They were definitely not Mongoloid in appearance. They were from somewhere else. As to whether they were European, at this point in time we cannot say 'no'," Dr. Gonzalez said.

Old article, old data.

The Santa Rosa Island skeleton is now dated at 13,400 years. No DNA last I heard.

Long, narrow skulls are not only Caucasian.

The migration of Caucasian-like folks may be Haplogroup X. But they came via Siberia, and are not Europeans or anything close.

Silvia Gonzalez has not produced any DNA last I heard, although I understand she may be submitting some samples shortly (I don't know exactly which samples will be submitted).

There is a lot of speculation about Europeans in the New World before anyone else. Some of this comes from the early estimate Chatters gave to the Kennewick skeleton. That has not been supported by subsequent studies, including Chatters' own studies. Long and narrow, yes; Caucasian, no evidence yet.

Most of this Caucasian in the New World stuff appears to be junk science. I would like to see more evidence and less speculation.

89 posted on 11/25/2007 9:05:17 PM PST by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Fred Nerks

(terribly belated) Thanks Fred Nerks.


90 posted on 11/17/2011 5:25:34 PM PST by SunkenCiv (It's never a bad time to FReep this link -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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91 posted on 11/17/2011 5:26:27 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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