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'Facebook' bound in priest's skin for sale
Telegraph ^ | November 29, 2007 | Sally Peck

Posted on 11/29/2007 6:24:40 AM PST by NYer

A macabre 17th century book about the execution of Gunpowder Plot conspirator Father Henry Garnet believed to be bound in the priest's own skin will go under the hammer this Sunday. Perhaps most spooky of all, some claim to see an image of the priest's tortured face peering out of the anthropodermic binding of 'A True and Perfect Relation of the Whole Proceedings against the Late Most Barbarous Traitors, Garnet a Jesuit and his Confederats'.

17th century book made of skin goes under the hammer

It is anyone's guess how much the book, which was made in London in 1606 by Robert Barker, the king's printer, just months after Garnet's execution, will fetch when it goes under the hammer at Wilkinson's Auctioneers in Doncaster, South Yorkshire.

Sid Wilkinson, the auctioneer, said: "Because the subject matter is so strange, we thought putting an estimate on it might be a bit vulgar.

"It could make £1,000, it could make hundreds, we just don't know."

He said the book is so rare Wilkinson's had never auctioned one before, but added that making books out of convicts' skin was not an entirely unusual practice.

Garnet's involvement in the plot by Catholics to kill King James I and most of the Protestant aristocracy by blowing up the Houses of Parliament has long been debated. The priest claimed that, although he was not involved in the plot, he heard details of the plot during confessions, which bound him to confidentiality.

Despite his admonitions, the plotters went ahead.

Despite his lack of active involvement, Garnet was found guilty of treason and executed in May 1606.

According to legend, a piece of bloodstained straw at the scene of his execution started to develop an exact image of the priest's face, which auctioneers suggest has happened to the book.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: jesuit
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1 posted on 11/29/2007 6:24:41 AM PST by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Catholic Ping
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


2 posted on 11/29/2007 6:25:23 AM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer

Holy Martyrs of England and Wales, pray for us.


3 posted on 11/29/2007 6:26:52 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer

Cool.


4 posted on 11/29/2007 6:31:34 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: NYer

I’ve Just Seen a Face
by Lennon, McCartney

I’ve just seen a face,
I can’t forget the time or place
That we’d just met, she’s just the girl for me
And I want all the world to see we’ve met
Na na na na na na

Had it been another day
I might have looked the other way
But I had never been aware
And as it is I dream of her tonight
Na na na na na na

CHORUS:
Falling, yes I am falling
And she keeps calling me back again

I have never known
The likes of this, I’ve been alone
And I have missed things and kept out of sight
But other girls were never quite like this
Na na na na na na

CHORUS

I’ve just seen a face
I can t forget the time or place
And we’d just met, she’s just the girl for me
And I want all the world to see we’ve met
Na na na na na na

CHORUS


5 posted on 11/29/2007 6:35:25 AM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: NYer

I hope that someone gives it to the Vatican, a book made of the skin of a priest should not become a cool collectible for satanists and sickos.


6 posted on 11/29/2007 6:37:50 AM PST by ansel12 (Proud father of a 10th Mountain veteran. Proud son of a WWII vet. Proud brother of vets, Airborne)
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To: NYer

So THAT’S what they mean on Amazon dot com when they say “unknown binding”.


7 posted on 11/29/2007 6:38:05 AM PST by Question Liberal Authority (Al Gore and Osama Bin Laden have the same position on global warming, for the exact same reason.)
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To: NYer
anthropodermic

I just learned a new word. That's a rare occurrence for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropodermic_bibliopegy

8 posted on 11/29/2007 6:41:04 AM PST by Constitution Day (Everything was fine until membership lost its privileges)
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To: NYer
It's the Necronomicon.

Say the words: Klaatu Barada Nikto

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

9 posted on 11/29/2007 6:42:33 AM PST by Sax
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To: Question Liberal Authority

“Book’em Dano” takes on new meaning!


10 posted on 11/29/2007 6:42:36 AM PST by Sacajaweau ("The Cracker" will be renamed "The Crapper")
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To: NYer

You outta see what happened to the other guy! (Though anyone can be redeemed if they choose.) Better a martyr for a moment than a charcoal bricket.


11 posted on 11/29/2007 6:43:16 AM PST by 444Flyer (NEVER take a "mark" to "buy or sell"!Heb 9:27, Rev 22:17,John 3:1-36, Eph 6, Rev 12:11, Jer 29:13-14)
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To: NYer

He didn’t need his skin where he was going anyway. He will have a new heavenly body. One that is not corruptable. WOW!

1 Corinthians 15:42-44 “So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable, it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.”

In other words we are like a milk carton with an expiration date, but those of us who follow the Lord get a new “carton” without an expiration date which is glorious!

(Or you can do things the hard way with weeping and gnashing of teeth.)


12 posted on 11/29/2007 6:56:03 AM PST by 444Flyer (NEVER take a "mark" to "buy or sell"!Heb 9:27, Rev 22:17,John 3:1-36, Eph 6, Rev 12:11, Jer 29:13-14)
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To: Red Badger
... Then I saw [his] face, now I'm a believer ...

Diamond sends.

13 posted on 11/29/2007 7:07:42 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: secret garden

ping to #8


14 posted on 11/29/2007 7:10:55 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: NonValueAdded

TFTP!


15 posted on 11/29/2007 7:12:27 AM PST by secret garden (Dubiety reigns here)
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To: 444Flyer

Better a pork rind than a fool. (I can’t believe I beat you to that one.)


16 posted on 11/29/2007 7:18:56 AM PST by 444Flyer (NEVER take a "mark" to "buy or sell"!Heb 9:27, Rev 22:17,John 3:1-36, Eph 6, Rev 12:11, Jer 29:13-14)
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To: NYer
Marilyn Manson Accused of Buying Child's Skeleton, Human Skin Masks

Shock rock singer Marilyn Manson has been accused of squandering his band's profit on a child's skeleton and masks made of human skin.

Keyboardist Stephen "Pogo" Bier filed a breach of contract lawsuit in August in which he accused Manson of taking cash belonging to the rest of the band to pay for the "sick and disturbing" purchases.

His lawyer Keith Fink has now filed additional papers adding to a list of artefacts bought by the goth singer- many of which are illegal in the US.

As well as the skeleton and masks, Manson is said to have bought a range of stuffed animals, including a grizzly bear and two baboons.

He is also accused of using band funds to pay for a collection of Nazi memorabilia.

17 posted on 11/29/2007 7:22:43 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: ArrogantBustard
How does trying to blow up the Houses of Parliament, assassinate the King of Great Britain, France, & Ireland, and attempting a coup de etat, and getting executed for your trouble, make one a “holy martyr”?

All the Gunpowder plot did was make life for Catholics in England a lot worse than it was.

18 posted on 11/29/2007 7:53:19 AM PST by GreenLanternCorps (Thompson for President: 2008, 2012: Jindal for President 2016, 2020)
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To: GreenLanternCorps
The priest claimed that, although he was not involved in the plot, he heard details of the plot during confessions, which bound him to confidentiality.
Despite his admonitions, the plotters went ahead.

There ya go.

19 posted on 11/29/2007 7:57:33 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: GreenLanternCorps

Did you read the whole article?


20 posted on 11/29/2007 8:02:20 AM PST by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: GreenLanternCorps
No, he sacrificed himself for the sanctity of the confessional, the most solemn binding obligation that any man can have.

St. John Nepomucene is especially the patron of priests who have died to protect the Seal of the Confessional. Note the cherub with finger to lips - St. John was tortured and then drowned for refusing to reveal to the King of Bohemia what his Queen had said in confession.

He no doubt welcomed this holy priest into Heavenly glory. "Faithful unto death."

The Vatican (or perhaps a diocese or parish with this saint as their patron) ought to purchase this book and give decent repose his the earthly relics.

21 posted on 11/29/2007 8:19:35 AM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: Sax

KLAATUUUU......BARADAA......NIKHIKHIKHIKHHMMMmmkd....there...i said it.


22 posted on 11/29/2007 8:23:00 AM PST by KOZ.
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To: KOZ.
Q: Did you say the words?

A: Well, maybe not every single syllable, but basically, yeah, I said them.

23 posted on 11/29/2007 8:27:58 AM PST by Sax
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To: Sax

Bet you’d put your tongue on a freezing flag pole to see if it would stick. Didn’t your Mom warn you about signs that say “Wet Paint?”

Not saying every syllable means you will only be half of a changling.

Remember what happened in “The Fly”?

Help me! Help me!

You probably won’t be able to type an answer to this so good luck.


24 posted on 11/29/2007 10:32:01 AM PST by wildbill
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To: NYer
Sid Wilkinson, the auctioneer, said: "Because the subject matter is so strange, we thought putting an estimate on it might be a bit vulgar.

But putting it up for auction? No problem!

25 posted on 11/29/2007 10:35:48 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Sax; KOZ.
Did you say the words?

Big E Smalls...
Big E Smalls...

26 posted on 11/29/2007 11:22:48 AM PST by uglybiker (relaxing in a luxuriant cloud of quality, aromatic, pre-owned tobacco essence)
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To: Sax

“I said ‘em...kinda.”


27 posted on 11/29/2007 12:39:57 PM PST by steve8714 (The last actor elected POTUS turned out OK.)
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To: wildbill

Well, if it’s a riddle I’m stumped. I’m reminded about A Christmas Story and the ending scene in The Fly where the man-headed fly gets mercifully brained by the rock before the spider gets him (yeah, that one has been Mighty-Beef branded onto my brain since I was a child.) The wet paint thing sounded somewhat familiar but I have no idea. I actually tried to see if it was a movie quote and found this little rant which made me chuckle:

Recursion: Big Bird was painting a bench. He’d just finished applying the last coat of paint, and his friends were admiring his handiwork. As he replaced the paint brush, he explained - concerned citizen that he was - that it was necessary to warn any passers-by that this was a freshly-painted bench. This made sense to me, because I remembered a previous episode in which whatshisface, the mime, sat down on a freshly-painted bench and got white stripes all over his black suit. Big Bird would have none of that, so he produced a blank piece of paper and wrote WET PAINT on it, and hung it by the bench. His only writing implements, however, were the paint and paintbrush he’d brought with him, so after creating the WET PAINT sign he realized that the sign itself contained wet paint, and so he needed to create another WET PAINT sign, to warn people about the first sign. So he created the second sign, and - apparently having learned nothing from his experience with the first sign - realized that he’d need a new one.
I watched this intently, and suddenly it dawned on me: every WET PAINT sign demanded another. I got it, but Big Bird didn’t. I got worried; would he be doing this forever? Or would someone give him a crayon and tell him to use it for the next sign?
Soon the scene ended, and I distractedly watched for the next few minutes as the mime explained the WALK/DON’T WALK signs, and as the Count showed that it doesn’t matter how you arrange the blocks because you still have the same number of them, and as someone didn’t want to share his cookie with Cookie Monster until Kermit came by to teach a lesson about sharing. Whatever. I didn’t care, because I was concerned that Big Bird was still making WET PAINT signs.
Cut to the next scene:recursion Big Bird surrounded by hundreds - maybe even two hundred - WET PAINT signs, happily making another one because the last one was still wet. And no one handed him a damned crayon, and the episode ended right there.
I burst into tears.
My mother, startled (her toddler was bawling at the end of Sesame Street, after all), hurried into the family room and asked me what was wrong, and I blubbered something about the endless production of WET PAINT signs and how Big Bird would be making them forever because each sign told him to make another one. FOREVER. I couldn’t think of anything worse than spending one’s entire life making WET PAINT signs, and I worried that that was to be Big Bird’s fate. It troubled me more than I could put into words. That happy yellow bird, doing this for the rest of his life. And he showed such promise! Would he never get to have a family? go to the park again? And what of Snuffleuppagus?


28 posted on 11/29/2007 12:50:59 PM PST by Sax
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To: ArrogantBustard

Okay, then, serious question: A guy says, “Father, I’m sorry, but I’m thinking of killing my wife and kids.” Priest says, “No, I admonish you not to do that.” Guy says, “Sorry, I’m off to pick up my gun now. I’ll be back later to confess again.”

Priest can’t even call 9-1-1?


29 posted on 11/29/2007 12:53:14 PM PST by Larry Lucido (Hunter 2008)
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To: Sacajaweau
"“Book’em Dano” takes on new meaning!"

So does, "skin mag."

30 posted on 11/29/2007 12:55:31 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: NYer

I am a Catholic but this just sound icky.


31 posted on 11/29/2007 12:56:28 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: Larry Lucido
The contents of a sacramental confession are not to be revealed to anyone, ever.

If you want to know how a priest is supposed to handle a situation such as you describe, I suggest asking one. I don't really know the answer. I'm given to understand that such matters are discussed in seminary. If the seminary is any good, anyway.

32 posted on 11/29/2007 12:59:42 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: napscoordinator

The book was not made by Catholics.

It was made by the King’s own bookmaker.


33 posted on 11/29/2007 1:03:26 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
So if you hear a confession of murder, you are obliged to let it happen? Read Romans 1 last verse. He is as guilty as the murderers if he did nothing to stop it.

I think the Catholic church has already gone through this several times in the past. If you hear of a child being tortured and murdered, you MUST tell someone. If you know of any crimes being confessed to, you must reveal it. If someone is running around on his wife, that's different. If someone wanted to kill Hillary, you must say something even if you don't vote for her. It's called "right and wrong." Taking an oath to hide crimes is a cult indication. I wonder how many priests are in Hell for protecting the mob?

34 posted on 11/29/2007 1:17:11 PM PST by chuckles
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To: ArrogantBustard

Thanks. Did not see that.


35 posted on 11/29/2007 1:32:59 PM PST by napscoordinator
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To: napscoordinator

Of course you didn’t see it. It’s not in this article. There’s on over on the “Religion Forum” with a little more detail ... including that bit.


36 posted on 11/29/2007 1:39:50 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Bah ... it IS in this article ... but I first saw it over on the other one.


37 posted on 11/29/2007 1:40:34 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: chuckles

“So if you hear a confession of murder, you are obliged to let it happen? Read Romans 1 last verse. He is as guilty as the murderers if he did nothing to stop it.”

Realistically, a priest is in no way responcible for what people choose to do with their own immortal souls. He can provide guidance, certainly, and there are priests who have broken their vows to report particularly vile crimes. But let’s also not pretend there aren’t people who go to confession as a form of therapy, and make all sorts of absurd claims or vent through what they’d like to do to people. How is a priest to determine who is legitimate? Further, there’s always some punk kid, or adult, who thinks it’d be good for a laugh to tell a priest some horrific, though false, story that they won’t be able to get out of their head.

There is actually even a list online, I didn’t bother to read it (just googled it to back myself up here) called “50 fun things to do during confession.” I may be horribly misjudging the slant of the article, but I would guess saying you commited a terrible crime is probably on the list.


38 posted on 11/29/2007 2:07:08 PM PST by COgamer
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To: chuckles
Your obviously fact-free speculation is way off base.

A priest may (and in some cases is obliged to) withhold absolution until the person confesses his or her crime to the civil authorities. They can be pretty forceful with that tack. (Read Giovanni Guareschi's Little World of Don Camillo, where a Communist assassin tries to get absolution from Don Camillo at gunpoint. He does not succeed.)

But the Seal is absolute. (By the way, a legal privilege is accorded in law to Protestant ministers, psychiatrists, psychologists, lawyers, accountants, and physicians. I guess they're all members of a cult?)

39 posted on 11/29/2007 3:31:46 PM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

My point was that there has been, in the past, court challenges to this “Absolute seal”. If a priest hears of a mass murder about to happen, or has already happened, I would think he would make “the right” decision. If he is somehow confused about what is right and wrong, I think its time to get a new vocation.


40 posted on 11/29/2007 5:03:40 PM PST by chuckles
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To: chuckles
Your point, if any, is that you are speculating on little or no facts.

I sometimes get a little tired of folks who take every opportunity to trash the Catholic church and call it a cult etc., whether they know any relevant facts or not.

Do some research (hopefully not on Ian Paisley's website) or ask a priest.

41 posted on 11/29/2007 5:54:40 PM PST by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother

If you were a Wiccan, and someone said you were to keep a secret that a member of your church sacrificed a baby to Satan, and you said nothing because of some “code”, you are a cult. If you know of priests abusing alter boys and say nothing because of some “code of silence” you are just protecting your cult. There is way too much “silence” in all religions. Catholics always start the “Bashing” “race” card if someone makes a comment about Catholics. In my church, we have had preacher run off with the organ player, we’ve had secretaries steal money, etc. The difference is we don’t try to hide it or keep it a secret. I can guarantee you if my pastor found out about a member committing a crime, the police would be there within minutes. If you want to continue to defend a conspiracy to commit murder, the go for it. You make about as much sense as the ragheads saying they are freedom fighters when they saw off a head. If a person confesses a crime to a priest and the preist hides it, he becomes a conspirator and is as guilty. He isn’t some martyr.


42 posted on 11/29/2007 6:50:57 PM PST by chuckles
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To: wildbill

Didn’t your Mom warn you about signs that say “Wet Paint?”


Yeah! I did was what the sign said! Jeez!


43 posted on 11/29/2007 6:54:04 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Larry Lucido; ArrogantBustard

Priest can’t even call 9-1-1?


No, but he can dive out of the confesional and draw his Smith and Wesson while shouting, “Stop right there punk! Go ahead, make my daily bread!”


44 posted on 11/29/2007 6:59:24 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear; ArrogantBustard

So you’re saying the priest should make the collar?


45 posted on 11/29/2007 7:06:58 PM PST by Larry Lucido (Hunter 2008)
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To: Larry Lucido
So you’re saying the priest should make the collar?

Yeah. And if the perp won’t come along peacefully then it’s time to send in the Nuns!

46 posted on 11/29/2007 7:21:11 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear

Only if he’s habit-ual.


47 posted on 11/29/2007 7:30:31 PM PST by Larry Lucido (Hunter 2008)
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To: Larry Lucido

You win.


48 posted on 11/29/2007 7:44:14 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: chuckles
Catholics always start the “Bashing” “race” card if someone makes a comment about Catholics.

No, but we do reserve the right to respond when unduly smeared. Like, for instance, if some moron is trying to justify using a priests skin to make a book because he wouldn't violate his oath. Maybe you could find a way to justify those lampshades at Nuremburg too.

49 posted on 11/29/2007 10:36:54 PM PST by Hacksaw (Appalachian by the grace of God - Montani Semper Liberi)
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To: Hacksaw
Your blathering now. I never mentioned the skin binding. I could care less. What I took exception to is him being called a martyr. A man of God would have revealed what he heard in confession to save lives. By not doing so, he became part of the conspiracy. How could he ignore murder? Looks like your the moron if you can't even understand English. People who can't justify their argument resort to name calling. Mighty Catholic of you.

Romans 1:32, "Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.( you don't have to be part of it to be just as guilty). How about the "Good Samaritan" parable. The religious man left the beat up guy on the road so he could follow the rules of not touching something dirty on the Sabbath. The Samaritan, which was looked down upon by the religionists, actually helped the man, but broke the rules. Which one did Jesus say did the right thing? To learn of a crime and just sit there makes you guilty as they are. Following a stupid code is choosing evil over good. Simple choice if you follow Jesus. This guy's moral compass was backwards if he chose a church rule over the "right" thing to do. He deserved to die and is no martyr.

I think that's about as plain as I can make it. If you don't get that, then you need to get a real church and get saved.

50 posted on 11/30/2007 1:42:40 AM PST by chuckles
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