Posted on 11/29/2007 7:00:53 PM PST by tjark
Is there a case for John McCain?
Disclaimer: I haven not affiliated myself with any campaign or even made up my mind as of yet. I do live in New Hampshire.
Heading into last night’s debate I was experiencing the same problem many of us are facing this cycle, I am not thrilled with any of our candidates. Like most, I find some pieces from each candidate I like and hate. Prior to watching the debate if I had to vote I was between Mitt and Fred. Last night’s ridiculously run debate did help, but not solve my problem.
Fred Thompson gave some great answers but he seemed to lose focus when given more time on a response. I love his ideas, but I don’t think he can win a national campaign against someone like Clinton. At the simplest sense I can see a Nixon v. Kennedy type debate in HDTV that makes Fred look unhealthy and frail. If Fred’s ideas were coming out of someone like Mitt or Rudy it would be a slam dunk. Unfortunately, I hate to look at cosmetics but the sad truth is that to the large percentage of the voting public it DOES make a difference, and many uninformed Americans do make decisions on looks (see Kennedy v. Nixon).
Mitt sounds great on many issues, but I believed he struggled towards the end of the debate when he was put on the spot by the other candidates. The question that keeps popping up in mind, is he the Republican version of a John Edwards, a slick talking panderer? Clinton’s health care plan was actually Romney’s plan in MA….Those issues plus I think his faith (which should be a non-issue) will scare people off in a general election.
All of this brought me back to John McCain, who I think did very well in the debate. Yes there many things to quarrel with about with John McCain (some I will get into). First, I think most would agree that the most important issues are:
1. War in Iraq (Terror/Iran) 2. Illegal Immigration 3. Taxes/Spending
In terms of national security some anger was directed at McCain for speaking out against how things were going last year. He was one the leading architects of the Surge, a strategy that is ultimately working. McCain is arguably the best on the issue of war. Now the whole issue of “torture” is troublesome to those in favor of it. I admit I think that McCain has the wrong approach on a ticking-bomb scenario. However, when push comes to shove if that became an issue I highly doubt McCain wouldn’t compromise to save American lives. Though as McCain said, the real world is a lot different than the world of Jack Bauer. With looming threats from Iran and others I think McCain will have the most ability and credibility to keep the Islmofascists on the defensive.
The issue that most have a problem with McCain about is illegal immigration, especially his support of “shamnesty.” I don’t believe he was in the right then and I am still not sure he is now either. However, take one second and be realistic about the problem. We have over 12 million and counting illegal immigrants in this country, and this problem is not going away. Our country absolutely needs to start enforcing immigration laws and securing the borders. While our borders are being secured we have to understand this problem is not going away and will not go away. Thus why not make the best out of the situation? For a great perspective in McCain’s defense take a look at the article posted by Byron York titled “For John McCain, the Immigration Debate Before the Debate” at NRO. There needs to be some sort of realistic approach to the problem, understanding that segments of our economy and country rely on immigrant labor. Any illegal who commits any type of crime should be deported (even speeding) but those that are law abiding and who would start paying taxes (part of the Shamnesty plan) and work towards the process of naturalization should not be hunted down. If we just say close the borders without a system in place of dealing with the numbers of people that are already here will make this a problem for many years. I felt betrayed by McCain on this issue, but I was also not thinking realistically about those that are already here, McCain seems to be at least TRYING to deal with BOTH problems.
The third important issue is taxes/spending. For this I think we have to assume that the Dems will hang onto control of Congress, thus a lot of spending and expensive programs may make it through Congress. McCain has had a proven history of fighting spending and is also principled; McCain does not waver from his beliefs. So between Rudy, Mitt, Huckabee, and McCain who do you think will take a stand and actually use the veto pen? To me the answer is McCain, he seems most likely to stand up and not waver when facing flak from the public/Dems to stop new programs and excessive spending.
The biggest problem after reconciling my issues with “Shamnesty” is McCain stance on campaign finances. McCain-Feingold is not working and restricts First Amendment rights. Though even McCain will now admit that it needs to be changed. This is a bitter pill for us to swallow, but it may be a small price to pay for a solid leader on national defense, supporter of the military and reasoned leader.
The final issue that I feel a voter must ask is that of electability in the general election. Rudy will get nailed by the Clinton machine, Mitt seems flawed partially due to his religion (again this should NOT be an issue, but for some it is.), Fred is a great idea man but I don’t see him holding up to the rigors of the next 11 months of campaigning against a solid campaigner. To me it seems to lead to McCain, who outside of the Free Republic many John Q. Public’s still have a favorable impression of the man and his integrity will win out over Hillary.
I had to write this because I think a lot of us have written off his candidacy but he may be the best person we can get to provide leadership on the important issues that is also electable in a general election.
Then again, my opinion may change tomorrow…..
John McCain strikes me as a very unlikeable old man.
Well you can look at it this way. Let’s say you have 4 candidates that have a chance to win. Giuliani, Romney, Huckabee, McCain. Well, McCain is the only one who has ever been a conservative, at least at one time. Granted, he really stinks at times, he’s actually a conservative (somewhat) with a direct link to the Reagan Revolution.
The others are just posers, flip-floppers- goobers, etc...
Thompson looks really bad out there, folks need to just admit it already and move on. If Thompson could stop saying “ugh” every five seconds he might have a better chance.
I ain’t voting for him. McCain-Feingold is not something I’m going to forgive.
Well researched. Well written.
Welcome to FR.
Gird your loins.
“Is there a case for John McCain?”
You can make a case...........ABOUT John McCain.
You can make a case that he’s against free exercize of ideas prior to elections; al la McCain-Feingold.
.....that he lied through his teeth Wednesday evening when he said that the legislation he and “The Swimmer” Kennedy tried to ram down our throats wasn’t AMNESTY! Of course it was amnesty.
That’s just a small part of the case against McCain. Did I mention the Keating Five? Oh, never mind.
HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, and welcome to Free Republic, people are about to get mad because you might support McCain.
McCain is a “go with the flow” Washington insider/RINO ... he is weak and NEEDS approval from the WAPO and NYT crowd ... if you like Bush’s performance (minus the tax cuts) you’ll LOVE having McCain as president.
Neither is McCain-Kennedy.
Yes, but McCain-Feingold, Gang of 13 and Amnesty is hurting him a lot.
Case for McCain: President Hillary
Well... Unless you took the strawberries that is...
On that issue and with those candidates it's easy - Mitt Romney.
Yes, but McCain-Feingold, Gang of 13 and Amnesty is hurting him a lot.
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Aw hell ,, lets not forget the Keating 5... he should’ve resigned in disgrace at that time and been thankful he wasn’t going to the Levinworth Hilton...
McCain’s answers on “torture” last night show why he is not to be trusted with the Presidency. He was dishonest, irrational, and sanctimonious. You give a guy like that a lot of power and he’ll go right off the deep end guaranteed.
Hahaha - reference to Caine Mutiny - nice.
Well... Unless you took the strawberries that is...
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I always get the strawberries and the potted palm mixed up..
Actually I think that is saved for Ron Paul.
IMO, with McCain what you see and sometimes hear isn’t what you get. Freepers that have seen and heard him in townhall meetings say he has major issues with controlling his temper and himself. His friendly association with Hildebeast makes me gag. I’ve been a conservative Republican since the 60’s and McCain isn’t getting my vote. The GOP better find a candidate with gonads real fast; a candidate that has the fortitude to tell it like it is and to be honest with the American people.
He strikes me as the crotchety old neighbor who, if your Frisbee accidentally lands in his yard, he’ll take it and refuse to give it back just to “learn ya a lesson!”
Thanks for the post. I read it & it will cause me to take another look at him for all the reasons you suggest.
Oh... wrong kind of "case".
I don’t see Romney using that veto pen on gun control legislation , do you ?
No!
Screw McCain...
McCain = Dangerous lunatic.
You are going to catch hell. But there is a case to be made for all the candidates. McCain has an 87% conservative voting rating, which is quite good. He has the right stuff on Islamo-nazi fighting, except for torture. He has made some serious errors, which you went over. I think he has learned from McCain-Feingold. I don’t know if he has learned enough on illegal alien invasion, he seems to have a problem there. He is wrong on torture, IMO, but one can see where he’s coming from, since he was tortured. I’m surprised you find him to have more vigor than Fred, since McCain is 9 years older. A lot of Southern people may look like they are about to fall asleep, but don’t let that fool you. (I’ve learned that from living around them and doing business with them.)
I wonder what the hard-a$$es around here would say about a candidate who had been a Democrat for most of his life, held one political office in a very liberal state, and had been a Hollywood actor as a career. You know who I mean. He’s a conservative hero now, but we didn’t know the things about him that made him great when he first ran. I’m just saying people can surprise you in good ways as well as bad ways, and people can change and grow.
For now, I’m with Fred, but all the candidates have their case, and each of use must choose. I wish some around here would figure out that the fact they get angry, post insults, indulge in namecalling, find fault, threaten to stay home or go third party has no meaning to me and most others. I’ll pick who I like, and they are free to do the same. But I won’t be blackmailed by threats, I don’t care who votes a certain way or stays home.
Is there a case for John McCain?
No.
Welcome to FR
I take it you signed up here to push McCain. Perhaps it would have been better just to say so, rather than pretending you couldn’t make up your mind.
McCain is McCain Feingold. He is also amnesty for illegal aliens. He also has a record of corruption and greed in the past, including dumping his faithful wife so he could marry a beer heiress and get into politics. He was a member of the Keating Five. He did much to help clinton after clinton agreed to tell the DEA not to arrest his wife for stealing drugs.
But, most of all, he’s Captain Queeg on steroids, a nutcase with an uncontrollable temper. He cannot be trusted with the Nuclear Football.
No.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I find it hard to believe Fred is criticized for his age and appearance, when McCain is older and less healthy. You also criticize his speaking, but is he worse that George W. Bush? Or George HW Bush?
You fear the outcome of the election will be like Kennedy Nixon—but who is more attractive—Kennedy or Hillary?
I rest my case.
tjark,
You sound like John, “what did I do wrong?”
If you have to ask, you will never be president.
Hillary vs McPain?
I stay home. Hell has frozen over.
no.
“Is there a case for John McCain?”
Yes, it is called a “nutcase”. However he is still far better than any of the dimocRATS.
Is there a case for John McCain?
In one word: NO!
He seemed to be phoning in the whole debate. He is unenthusiastic, uninspired, and inarticulate.
He keeps giving the same old tired answers, and his defense of the “civil rights” of captive Al Quaeda terrorists in Gitmo is getting on my last nerve.
How about McCain stopping his torture of the viewing public with his inane answers, monotonous diatribes, and wornout liberalism?
Hey, Old Soldier, PLEASE FADE AWAY!
>>I ain’t voting for him. McCain-Feingold is not something I’m going to forgive.<<
There is also the issue of his immigration stance.
I respect him for serving his country and I regret his suffering as a POW. I actually like him a bit but McCain-Fiengold and immigration are killers.
Read this slowly and see if that is clear what you mean to say.
2. He compromised with the Democrats blocking our ability to filibuster and get all our pending court appointments costing us 20 years of suffering through more Clinton left over appointments of socialist still on the bench allowing the third branch of government to continue writing laws from the bench.
3. He worked with the Democrats to try and back room slam a immigration law bypassing the proper committee and tried 3 times to sneak it in with out hearings or proper debates.
4. He went on TV on every talk show and news outlet that would show his face to publicly attack the Bush WOT and Iraq plans allowing the Democrats to pile on and help loose the Republican control of the House in the last elections.
5. He prides himself on going on every Sunday news show every weekend to openly criticize the Republicans and Bush on any and everything. He loves his ego and friendship at the Millionaires club (Senate)and getting along with Democrats far more than any Conservative values.
On that issue and with those candidates it’s easy - Mitt Romney
All I can think of is the dozens of times McCain was paraded around on CNN, CBS, NBC and the rest of the Drive By Media everytime they wanted a Republican to bash Bush. And McCain performed like a trained seal. To give him the Republican nomination would be like saying the Republican Party rewards their turncoats. I will never vote for John McCain and my position is unretractable.
Somewhat surprisingly, McCain voted against the 1994 AWB
On principle it is a bad idea, but it has had NO effect.
s**tloads of money is pooring into all of the candidates coffers from s**tloads of directions.
In what actual way did McCain-Feingold change the dynamics of the American electoral process?
Why damn a candidate for doing something that had no effect whatsoever?
tjark Since Nov 29, 2007
Welcome to the FreeRepublic. We hate McCain.
He's not well liked outside of "the Free Republic" either in my experience. Nice try though. Welcome to the Free Republic.
If that is the lesson you got out of the 2006 election cycle then you are truly a yellow-dog Republican.
But then if you are a yellow-dog Republican you should only be saying good things about all Republicans ... including McCain.
And as others have pointed out, there are many other reasons why he doesn't deserve to be president.
Saying several suspected terrorists have been arrested after purchasing weapons at gun shows, McCain wondered, "How many were not arrested?" His amendment passed on a 53-46 vote, while the assault weapons ban passed on a 52-47 vote. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/02/senate.guns/index.html
More recently...
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/John_McCain_Gun_Control.htm
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