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Posted on 12/07/2007 4:48:29 AM PST by JustaCowgirl
Calling for repeal of the state's immigration bill, the senator says its author is a "mad scientist."
OKLAHOMA CITY -- Sen. Harry Coates on Thursday called fellow Republican Rep. Randy Terrill, author of Oklahoma's controversial immigration legislation, "a mad scientist and Oklahoma is his laboratory."
Coates said Terrill, who has recently proposed even stricter immigration legislation, is getting "wackier and wackier" and his rhetoric has racist overtones.
"When you say that mothers who have dark skin should not be able to receive prenatal care, I find that racist," Coates said.
Terrill has objected to the state's Medicaid agency approving a rule that would allow payments for prenatal care to mothers who are in the country illegally.
"So Coates is playing the race card," Terrill said. "This is outrageous and insulting. He is doing a disservice to his own cause with this inflammatory rhetoric."
At a state Capitol news conference, Coates called for repeal of sections of House Bill 1804, whose primary author was Terrill, R-Moore. Coates said he has both economic and moral concerns about the bill, portions of which went into effect Nov. 1.
"What people don't seem to realize is that the chilling effect of this law has resulted in the loss of both documented and undocumented employees," Coates said. "These are good jobs and they pay good wages, but few American workers are willing to take them."
Jack Gray, whose Oklahoma City roofing company has been in business more than 100 years, said he hasn't lost any business, "but we will not be able to bid on any future business. There are not enough Americans who are willing to work construction."
Rep. Shane Jett, R-Tecumseh, said he will introduce a bill to create a pilot program where workers could buy a tax number identification card that would be an affidavit documenting a good-faith intent and effort to comply with Oklahoma law.
"I don't believe there is a state representative or senator who intended to have a family living in fear," Jett said. "The family is the first institution consecrated by God, and I believe it's our re sponsibility to protect families."
Terrill has proposed another bill he is calling "Son of 1804" that may contain provisions such as seizing the property of those who knowingly harbor and assist illegal immigrants.
Following a press conference at the state Capitol, Coates said Terrill's actions are "the result of not reining in a bad idea."
But Terrill said 80 percent of Oklahomans are in favor his legislation.
Terrill pointed out that House Bill 1804 was handily approved by both the House and Senate and signed by Gov. Brad Henry.
Some lawmakers have said it was impossible to vote against House Bill 1804 because of the political considerations. Asked whether lawmakers voted for the bill because they thought they had to, Coates said if so, "they are not showing proper leadership, if you know it is a bad bill and you vote for it anyway."
Terrill said Coates' comments "would be laughable if they did not come from a senator who derives most of his income from the construction and building trade."
Coates said he is a construction consultant, which provides him with information about what is happening with some businesses, but he does not have any employees working for him.
Terrell is the author of Oklahoma's immigration bill, HB 1804. Terrell never said what Coates is saying he said. Not even close. In these people's world "Cutting off benefits to illegals" = "racial hatred."
The people fighting Oklahoma's immigration measures are desperate, because the supply of low-pay, long-hours construction workers from whom they can reap windfall profits is drying up.
Well, just follow the money back to the construction industry. That's who Coates thinks he works for.
Nonsense! Offer a good wage. They will come.
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THE MEXICAN OCCUPATION MUST END!
I think that puts things into perspective.
The middle men have gotten used to hiring cheap labor but not passing on the savings. It will take a while for them to hire legal workers - they will cut off their noses to spite their faces and convince us that legal labor can’t be had. They will howl and scream and twist their crony legislators’ arms and call everyone racist. But in the end they will get hungry, glue their noses back on, and try to make a buck. Or else twist the good ol boys’ arms harder - seems to work most of the time in Oklahoma.
I never really understood what the connection was, and he never said...
He called me a racist to my face because I'm in favor of enforcing this country's immigration laws. The law never entered into the matter.
So it was just a matter of time until the race card got played at the State Capitol. Worth keeping an eye on.
>> Jack Gray, whose Oklahoma City roofing company has been in business more than 100 years, said he hasn’t lost any business, “but we will not be able to bid on any future business. There are not enough Americans who are willing to work construction.” <<
THIS IS THE MOST EVIL, INSANE NONSENSE IN THE NATION.
fifteen years ago, a hard-working construction worker could easily make $20, $30 or even $50 an hour. Today, in many states, they’re lucky to get $7. And, gee, that sure brought down the cost of housing construction, didn’t it?
There are jobs Americans won’t do FOR MINIMUM WAGE!!!
“Importing foreign workers for the purpose of keeping wages low is a grave crime, which cries out to the Heavens for vengeance” — Rerum Novarum, the Catholic encyclical most cited by other popes in history.
They are as stupid as a bag of nails, but eventually they will peer over the gates of their community and see and HEAR the ruckass outside which is rapidly approaching them.
What a prospective home construction worker considers a "good wage" and what a prospective homebuyer considers "affordable" are generally too far apart to make it worthwhile to pay enough money to assemble an all-American crew.
Ex-ACT-ly.
I seriously doubt that is in the bill.
When open border Quislings attack, all they can do is throw down the
“When you say that mothers who have dark skin should not be able to receive prenatal care, I find that racist,” Coates said.
he should be made to publically eat those words on national tv and radio
His "consulting" probably involved advising contractor on how to skirt and evade la migra, and best hire the maximum number of illegal aliens. No wonder he's pissed, this is hitting his wallet.
The race card is all the open borders Quislings have.
The solution is called "the free market," not wrecking the free market by flooding the market with CRIMINAL INVADERS, and then ignoring the RULE OF LAW in the USA.
So what was your response?? Surely you didn't let him get away with a statement like that.
BTTT
Hint: the use of caps does not lend more persuasiveness to an argument.
The fact is, our immigration laws are colossally inadequate and need to be rewritten.
The US has been importing free labor from overseas since before it was the US.
If we had had rational immigration laws in the first place, there would have been no incentive for the massive trespassing we have now.
You cannot have a free market if the market for labor is closed.
A free market requires the importation and exportation of labor as well as of goods and capital, and our existing immigration laws acted as an enormous, market-distorting tariff which - like most heavily onerous tariffs in history - has been circumvented by smuggling.
They are tracking the Senator (above), and it says, in Spanish (as much) that he is "one of them".
He should be shown the door. I dont know the demographics of his district, though.
"Pero la ley está creando estragos en todas las áreas de comercio: agricultura, construcción, restaurantes, cuidado de jardines, etc. El senador Harry Coates (R-Seminole), único republicano que se opuso a la ley, afirmó que esto generará un gran número de demandas judiciales y que dañará mucho al comercio."
Also, THIS little nugget:
Senator Coates is a construction consultant by profession whose firm operates throughout the United States and the Caribbean. Senator Coates is a member of several professional and civic organizations.
Hmmm...I wonder a) if he has any working going on in Venezuela, and b) how many indocumentados he is employing in Oklahoma....
http://www.coatesroofing.com/
And this one, about Senator Coate's specific industry in the construction field in Oklahoma, roofing: Most roofing contractors have increased their prices this year. Another one-third kept prices the same and almost 10% had to lower them. "We've had to lower our prices to stay competitive, but we still do quality work," reports a Midwest installer. Who's doing the work? As of 2003, 27% of the commercial roofing workforce is Hispanic. This number swells to 40% for companies with annual revenues of more than $5 million. Regionally, 58% of the workforce in the West is Hispanic, compared to 11% in the Midwest. Four of five roofing companies say they offer worker training-68% in house, 15% off-site and 17% a mixture of both.
And finally THIS:
Some Hispanics leaving state Cherokee Builders has been in Oklahoma for 12 years, but a recent "significant problem" is already hurting it and other Oklahoma companies: Work force shortages. "We used to see a whole bunch of them, Hispanic workers, 10 a week, applying for jobs," said Larry Creekmore, Cherokee Builders executive vice president. "We're maybe seeing one or two per week now." Creekmore and other Oklahoma businesses have seen Hispanic workers, regardless of legal status, leave Oklahoma recently since the passage of House Bill 1804, a state anti-illegal immigration law. Creekmore said his firm has always checked the legal status of employees, but said the law about to take effect seems to be affecting more than those for whom it is intended. Legal Hispanic workers are leaving the state also. "They're good workers," Creekmore said. "They're as good of a worker as an American, and if he's legal, he has just as much of a right to work as other Americans." Rumors that there will be massive layoffs around Thursday, when HB 1804 is scheduled to take effect have also caused panic, said Francisco Trevino, executive director of the Tulsa Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. "Everybody's worried about losing their jobs," he said. "We've had calls about every three minutes about this law, it's been crazy. Everybody's been worried." While there is no need to panic, this does not stop people from reacting, said Dick Anderson, executive vice president of the Associated General Contractors of Oklahoma. "Despite the knee-jerk reaction of the Hispanic community, I don't believe there will be huge roundups," Anderson said. He said there are many false rumors among the general public about the estimated 18 percent to 20 percent of construction workers in Oklahoma, who are Hispanic. Hispanic workers aren't paid in cash to avoid taxes or kept in substandard housing, he said. "They are hard workers and dependable,'' he said. ''They work from daylight to dark; they get the job done." Under Tulsa city requirements, all Tulsa Vision Builders work, including the BOK Center, is done by workers who have had their identities and legal status verified, said Bart Boatwright, project director. He said he thinks the areas that will have the greatest effect are smaller markets with less established contractors and companies. "In the residential market, the ebb and flow of the business, whether they're busy or not busy, it's not a consistent work force," Boatwright said. Most customers are not concerned about legal status of workers, but rather quality of work, dependability and business honesty, said Alejo Martinez, owner of All Mexican Roofing and Martinez Painting General Services. Martinez said he's been living in Tulsa the past 28 years and is a naturalized citizen originally from Mexico. He said this time has helped him get connections to potential workers and establish his business. "I know so many people, so if I lose one of my roofers who leaves for Mexico, I can always get another," Martinez said. He said his name "All Mexican Roofers" is a play of the term "All-American," because the business "is mostly just me, and I'm Mexican." Illegal immigration needs to stop, Anderson said, but Oklahoma should give immigrants the opportunity to work and benefit the state. Otherwise, there will be consequences when businesses are required to check legal status next year. "You better figure out a gameplan to get these people here legally because if you don't, you will stop construction" in July 2008, Anderson said. That's when state contractors are required to start checking the status of all employees under the law. "It would be a shame to let something as petty as this destroy the economy in Oklahoma right now," Anderson said. Cherokee Builders will not have to move out of state because of HB 1804, said Creekmore, who added that he does not support illegal immigration. However, without a work force, his firm will have to cut back on work. "They just might feel Oklahoma is not friendly anymore," he said.
Synopsis of research here:
It is clear this man is starting to hurt, as cheap labor for his family business dries up and he is faced with the TERRIBLE prospect of having to hire AMERICAN CITIZENS to do the work.
Please PING your OKLAHOMA and IMMIGRATION lists, for citizen activism.
Geeeeez, beat me to it!LOL
Well, I am waaaay over here in Japan.
But I thought, the "Sooner" the better that I get this up on FR and out there.
Good luck, Oklahomans. Eagles Up!! Go after this guy. (Be Nice!) ;-)
And the bad part is?.......
"These are good jobs and they pay good wages, but few American workers are willing to take them."
So the construction industry has to load up with illegals? What are the names of these companies not obeying the law? Time to drop the hammer on them.
He sounds like he's more than a bit of a racist himself. He's presuming that you, like he, think that all illegal immigrants are Hispanic.
Denying benefits to illegal aliens is (or clearly should be) blind to any other aspect than their immigration status.
And here we have the root of the matter
The influx of cheap (illegal) labor made it possible to build large houses cheaply enough that more people can afford to buy them, people who 40 years ago would have been living in a smaller home or renting an apartment
The construction industry is now hooked on cheap labor like a junkie on heroin. Without cheap labor, you cannot now build a new house and sell it at a profit, in competition with all the already-built houses that are on the market due to foreclosure.
Real wages in the overall construction sector have fallen nearly 2 percent since the start of the decade and nearly 4 percent since the recent wage peak in 2003. Construction workers in 2006 were making the same per-hour salary as they did in 1965 (measured in 1982 dollars). Landscaping workers have also seen real wages fall by nearly 4 percent since 2001. For the leisure and hospitality sector, workers are making the same per-hour salary as they did in 1972.
Horsefeathers - there are not enough Americans willing to work construction for $10 per hour, especially when they can become useless paper pushers for twice that amount and work in an air-conditioned office to boot.
Americans are more than willing to work for a living provided that there is acceptable monetary compensation for that work. Cheap labor has undermined that monetary compensation, and cheap labor hasn't even made a dent in housing prices.
Savings are passed on. Not in a perfect one-to-one ratio, of course.
In a market economy there is always a combination of the supplier trying to maximize his profit and the consumer trying to maximize his savings, with the resulting price reflecting a benefit to both sides.
Construction wages have actually declined in real dollars since the 1970s.
I would hope so.
So much emphasis is being placed on illegals that to be honest, I do not understand what needed workers need to do to come here legally. That should be part of the solution.
Baloney - our coddling of illegals with free medical care, free use of schools, and plenty of other taxpayer-funded benefits has done much more to distort the market than any restriction on immigration has. And the worst part of it is that I, the taxpayer, am carrying the cost. It's bad enough that I have been forced to pay for our own American deadwood (aka the democRAT base), but now I am also paying for the foreign deadwood that has invaded this country illegally.
Get them out of my country!
In other words, the housing consumer has more and better choices.
The construction industry is now hooked on cheap labor like a junkie on heroin.
The point of running a business is to control costs, like labor, and maximize profits.
Without cheap labor, you cannot now build a new house and sell it at a profit, in competition with all the already-built houses that are on the market due to foreclosure.
The homebuilders have already begun pulling back on construction and paring back their labor forces in reaction to the market slowdown. They are not continuing to build at the same pace.
I am confused. When, where and by whom was this spoken?
That's the problem. The playing field isn't level. Market forces are not being allowed to work because employers have access to an inexhaustible supply of cheap ILLEGAL labor. Legal American labor can't compete against illegal labor. I have owned a business. Have you?
I would hope so.
Really? Does the same hold true for doctors, college professors, government workers, etc.?
To the contrary, these negative externalities are a direct result of our poorly constructed immigration laws.
A stupid tariff imposed on external labor has wound up costing taxpayers a fortune, a fortune which has only been partially offset by the positive price action in the labor market.
Key words - "subsidized by the taxpayer". And not only the taxpayer. We pay for their free medical care through increased insurance premiums. We pay for their use of our infrastructure through increased utility rates for the added construction of facilities necessary to supply the excess population.
If they were truly supporting themselves and not leaning on the American citizens for the free ride, I would have much less concern for the presence of illegals. But they're not and now that the public is becoming aware of the situation, those that have profited from the cheap labor are feeling the pinch. For them, it's 1862 all over again.
“What a prospective home construction worker considers a “good wage” and what a prospective homebuyer considers “affordable” are generally too far apart to make it worthwhile to pay enough money to assemble an all-American crew.”
This is nonsense, really. If a business cannot make it hiring Americans, it probably should not have been in business in the first place.
Housing prices will not greatly rise....just that some business will not make the money like they did in the past because they no longer can “break the law”
That's the definition of market forces at work.
Closed labor markets are the goal of a socialist economy, not a free market.
Really? Does the same hold true for doctors, college professors, government workers, etc.?
It certainly should, and it does - except in the case of government workers, sadly.
And the costs of housing have soared so the “savings” are not being passed on to the consumer. This is all about greed and short term benefits. The only problem is that people are not widgets and can be disposed of when no longer needed. The demographic impact and social costs will destroy this country if we don’t reform our current immigration policies and secure the border.
Actually it turns out that this was small stuff alongside what the guy was saying behind my back to people I do business with.
It's a situation I can't respond to. I've got to leave it between him and someone else.
Every other business is able to hire foreign labor by subcontracting overseas.
Construction and service businesses like restaurants, by their very nature, are denied this competitive outlet by incredibly dunderheaded immigration laws.
Therefore it is not surprising that this business - at a unique legal disadvantage - found a way of utilizing the black market.
Not in the near term, because of the large buildup in inventory.
But they will again.
I completely disagree with this assertion. It doesn't make any difference what a home owner thinks if all the bids are the relatively the same from every potential contractor. He can either take or leave it - just like now! If the job is being done by workers making $10.00/hr using illegals, legals can be had for $20.00/hr and the total price of the job will go up accordingly. The customer will pay it if all contractors bidding on the job are using the same relative labor base and rates - no illegals - or they will not get the job done. Clamp down on employers and the issue will get resolved. It's really that simple. Yes, the total cost-of-living will go up, but that is the "price" Americans will have to pay (and have said they are willing to pay) to solve the immigration problem.
“That’s the problem. The playing field isn’t level. Market forces are not being allowed to work because employers have access to an inexhaustible supply of cheap ILLEGAL labor. Legal American labor can’t compete against illegal labor. I have owned a business. Have you?”
When there is such a downturn in wages, it affects all other facets of the economy...fewer cars, durable goods, and HOUSING are purchased. It also means HIGHER TAXES for those who still are making money...since we know taxes and spending will never go away
So you believe that we should open our borders and allow migration of labor from around the globe? The operative word here is ILLEGAL. A free market doesn't connote an abolition of borders and sovereignty.
It certainly should, and it does - except in the case of government workers, sadly.
So you believe that the salaries of doctors and college professors have declined since 1970? Have your wages declined since 1970?
Senator Coates said it of Senator Terrell, the author of Oklahoma House Bill 1804, Oklahoma's tough illegal immigration law. He was referring (apparently) to the fact that Sen. Terrell wants to amend the law to prevent pregnant illegals from receiving Oklahoma Medicaid.
Well, pregnant illegals should NOT be receiving Oklahoma Medicaid. No illegal should be receiving Medicaid from any state. In fact, only American Citizens that truly are unable to carry their own weight in this world should be eligable for any kind of medical aid.
If a doctor wants to treat illegals, he can do so freely at his own personal expense.
There will then be fewer customers, because the home price will be unaffordable to many.
The only families living in fear are those of US citizenry.
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