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UNC Considers Charging Illegal Immigrants In-State Tuition
WRAL ^ | December 7, 2007

Posted on 12/07/2007 9:46:28 AM PST by NCjim

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. — The University of North Carolina system is considering whether to offer undocumented immigrants in-state tuition at its 16 university campuses.

In-state tuition ranges from $1,500 to $3,700 while out-of-state students pay between $10,000 and $20,000.

System President Erskine Bowles said illegal immigrants already are in the state, and he said creating another permanent underclass isn't the right thing to do. The policy's costs and benefits are being studied by a 28-member commission of business, community and academic leaders.

Last week, a controversy erupted over a new policy that mandates all state community colleges admit students regardless of their immigration status. Policy opponents include all five candidates for North Carolina governor.

(Excerpt) Read more at wral.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: illegalimmigration; rewardingcriminals; sanctuaryuniversity; sheeruttermadness; sheeuttermadness

1 posted on 12/07/2007 9:46:29 AM PST by NCjim
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To: Bat_Chemist

Ping


2 posted on 12/07/2007 9:47:53 AM PST by NCjim (The more I use Windows, the more I love UNIX)
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To: NCjim

Insanity on Parade!!


3 posted on 12/07/2007 9:47:56 AM PST by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: NCjim

Thanks, State of North Carolina for misusing our tax money to reward illegal border invaders.


4 posted on 12/07/2007 9:47:58 AM PST by TommyDale (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: NCjim
Erskine Bowles
One of The Witch's inner circle buying votes.
5 posted on 12/07/2007 9:48:51 AM PST by Zathras
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To: NCjim

I thought his name was Foreskin Bowels.


6 posted on 12/07/2007 9:48:57 AM PST by TommyDale (Never forget the Republicans who voted for illegal immigrant amnesty in 2007!)
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To: NCjim
Egghead/Pinhead/Clintonista Erskine Bowles....stealing from the taxpayers and giving the money to criminals.

Hey, Foreskin! Here's a concept: Report them to ICE.

7 posted on 12/07/2007 9:49:51 AM PST by clintonh8r
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To: NCjim
It's illegal.

From this link....

A college education for illegal aliens

...In September 1996, in the landmark Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA), Congress prohibited states from giving in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens. Members of Congress evidently never imagined that some states might simply disobey federal law.

8 posted on 12/07/2007 9:50:29 AM PST by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: NCjim

They get the idea from Huckadem?

I wonder if newly arrived military members and their kids will be afforded the same benefit?


9 posted on 12/07/2007 9:51:29 AM PST by enough_idiocy (www.daypo.net/test-iraq-war.html)
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To: NCjim

Love the spin on the headline, BTW. Must’ve been written by a grad from Joseph Goebbels U.


10 posted on 12/07/2007 9:51:44 AM PST by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: NCjim

Irksome Bowels irks me to no end.


11 posted on 12/07/2007 9:52:50 AM PST by Constitution Day (Everything was fine until membership lost its privileges)
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To: NCjim

If you do that, I believe there is a law that all out of state kids get the same break.


12 posted on 12/07/2007 9:52:52 AM PST by Andy'smom
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To: NCjim

Hey ... I have a better idea ... how about NOT LETTING THEM ATTEND UNTIL THEY ARE LEGAL ... you twits


13 posted on 12/07/2007 9:55:13 AM PST by clamper1797 (Fred Thompson - Duncan Hunter for POTUS and Vice Potus in either order)
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To: mewzilla
I didn't go to your link and read all of it, but I don't believe the excerpt you provided is the whole story.

I believe, and someone correct me if I am wrong, that states are not prohibited from giving illegals instate tuition, but the law is IF they DO give it to illegals, they are then forbidden from charging out of state rates and must charge all US Citizens, regardless of residence the same tuition, ie in-state tuition.

14 posted on 12/07/2007 9:56:36 AM PST by Phantom Lord (Fall on to your knees for the Phantom Lord)
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To: NCjim
and he said creating another permanent underclass isn't the right thing to do.

I agree completely. However, my focus is on the word "permanent" while his is probably on the word "underclass". And I know one way to make sure they aren't here permanently.

15 posted on 12/07/2007 9:57:28 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Government is the hired help - not the boss. When politicians forget that they must be fired.)
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To: NCjim
If knowingly employing an illegal is a crime, why isn’t enrolling an illegal also a crime?
16 posted on 12/07/2007 10:01:39 AM PST by ASA Vet
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To: NCjim

So these traitors want to give a fricken illegal alien a better deal than an AMERICAN CIIZEN from another state. These folks best beware the seeds of rebellion they sow. It is sad to see many Americans attempting to turn this place into the Balkans.


17 posted on 12/07/2007 10:04:05 AM PST by ohioman
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To: NCjim
What is wrong with these idiots? I mean really, what the flip is wrong with them? Are they insane?

Just think - these are the brain-dead morons that are educating our youth.

18 posted on 12/07/2007 10:08:00 AM PST by meyer (Illegal Immigration - The profits are privatized, the costs are socialized.)
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To: ASA Vet

Any conduct that facilitates an Illegal Alien to remain in the country is harboring and a violation of USC 8. Withhold federal funds from any state college that does so.


19 posted on 12/07/2007 10:08:48 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: KarlInOhio

“...and he said creating another permanent underclass isn’t the right thing to do.”

Wouldn’t deportation be the right (and lawful) thing to do?


20 posted on 12/07/2007 10:10:39 AM PST by Cecily
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To: Phantom Lord
From this link....

In-State Tuition for Undocumented Students in Utah

....Section 505 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA) states that “An alien who is not lawfully present in the United States shall not be eligible on the basis of residence within a State…for any postsecondary benefit unless a citizen or nation of the United States is eligible for such a benefit (in no less an amount, duration, and scope) without regard to whether the citizen or national is such a resident.” Section 401 of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) states that an “alien who is not a qualified alien [i.e., not a lawful permanent resident, or lawfully admitted as a refugee or aslyee or alien lawfully present in the U.S. under two other laws] is not eligible for any public benefit…” However, supporters of these laws argue that the IIRIRA and the PRWORA do not prevent or prohibit a state from granting in-state tuition to undocumented students.

Supporters can argue all they want, but the law is the law. The only way illegals can be given in-state rates by these institutions is if they meet the same residency requirements that citizens must.

21 posted on 12/07/2007 10:13:59 AM PST by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: NCjim

This is just going to get worse!


22 posted on 12/07/2007 10:16:19 AM PST by SWEETSUNNYSOUTH (Help stamp out liberalism!)
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To: NCjim

Bend Over, North Carolinans. There is nothing like giving illegals what Citizens, of this nation, cannot have. Aren’t the liberals just wonderful? The governor and the legislature are comprised mostly of democrats, who will commend UNC for their considerations and actions by granting UNC more money. UNC sows the seeds of rebellion, and enacts more taxes upon the Citizens of the state, to pay for more illegal activity. What a country, while Americans still have a country!


23 posted on 12/07/2007 10:17:35 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk. I Will Be Voting for Mr. Duncan Hunter, fellow FReepers.)
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To: massgopguy
Withhold federal funds from any state college that does so.

That's not the solution. If their action is illegal, arrest them and let them serve time. Be sure to publish the crime and punishment so other would be criminal facilitators get the message.

24 posted on 12/07/2007 10:17:45 AM PST by ASA Vet
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To: Phantom Lord
Then again, maybe I'm confused about is UNC's intention to give illegals in-state rates regardless of whether or not they meet the residency requirements. I think you're right that the IIRIRA does not prohibit the granting of in-state rates to qualified residents regardless of status. What I'm wondering is whether or not UNC is insisting that illegals meet the residency requirement at all? And how they can expect folks who are here illegally to be honest about how long they've been in the state.
25 posted on 12/07/2007 10:23:57 AM PST by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: ASA Vet; massgopguy
That's not the solution. If their action is illegal, arrest them and let them serve time.

Strictly enforcing illegal immigration laws is the solution. Their action is illegal just by being in the country. All illegal aliens are criminals and anyone or organization that aids and abets illegals are also violating the following law.

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act

Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens Enforcement RICO —Citizen Recourse Tax Crimes Comment

Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) "Any person who . . . encourages or induces an illegal alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each illegal alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

· assists an illegal alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or · encourages that illegal alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or · knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions. ·

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an illegal alien for a fee, knowing the illegal alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an illegal alien knowing that the illegal alien is unauthorized to work.

It is unlawful to hire any individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. "Day laborers" or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the illegal alien labor.

The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

It is illegal for nonprofit or religious organizations to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, regardless of claims that their convictions require them to assist illegal aliens. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any illegal alien who is in the United States in violation of law. Harboring means any conduct that tends to substantially facilitate an alien to remain in the U.S. illegally. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the illegal alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

Enforcement

A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time, and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third-party complaints that have a reasonable probability of validity. Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.

RICO —Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, and can include nonprofit associations.

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In addition to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.

Comment:

A comment and a published quote by Robert Gaffney, Attorney and County Executive of Suffolk County, LI, NY:

The statutory foundation of United States immigration law has always been the jurisdiction of the federal government, Congress and the federal courts. The preeminent laws concerning the employment of illegal aliens are found in the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. §~ 1101-1503), as amended by the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 CIRCA).

The law states it is a crime to assist an illegal alien who lacks employment authorization by referring him to an employer, or by acting as his or her employer, or as an agent for an employer. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324a(a)(1)(A) (Lexis 1997). Furthermore, it is unlawful to hire an individual for employment without complying with the employment eligibility requirements for every person hired. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324a(a)(l)(B) (Lexis 1997). Moreover, conduct tending substantially to facilitate illegal aliens remaining in the United States illegally, where there is knowledge or a reckless disregard of an illegal alien s unlawful status, is a crime, with escalating penalties, encompassed within the provisions of 1324. 8 U.S.C.S. § 1324(a)(l)(A)(iii) (Lexis 1997); United States v. Kim. 193 F-3d 567 (2d Cir. 1999), are considered employees for purposes of immigration law.
26 posted on 12/07/2007 10:29:52 AM PST by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it! Duncan Hunter is a Cosponsor.)
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To: NCjim

South Carolina ? nope, out of state

Mexico ? no problemo


27 posted on 12/07/2007 10:40:01 AM PST by daku ("My dream continues with ferocity, thank you.")
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To: NCjim

Fitzsimon (NC Policy Watch) & Gheen (ALIPAC) debate the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWU5huJSsqU


28 posted on 12/07/2007 10:43:16 AM PST by Altura Ct.
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To: NCjim; 100%FEDUP; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; ~Vor~; A2J; a4drvr; Adder; Aegedius; Afronaut; ...

NC *Ping*

Please FRmail Bat_Chemist if you want to be added to or removed from this North Carolina ping list.
29 posted on 12/07/2007 10:43:38 AM PST by Bat_Chemist (The devil has already outsmarted every "Bright".)
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To: NCjim

My daughter is looking at NC State and we live in Ohio. If this is a state-wide thing, we’ll take NC State off the list of colleges that have accepted her.


30 posted on 12/07/2007 10:48:14 AM PST by OrioleFan (Republicans believe every day is July 4th, but DemocRATs believe every day is April 15th. - Reagan)
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To: NCjim

Great idea! After they write out the check, have ICE deport them. Helps repay the taxpayers for their trip home.


31 posted on 12/07/2007 10:59:06 AM PST by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: NCjim
President Erskine Bowles said illegal immigrants already are in the state, and he said creating another permanent underclass isn't the right thing to do

But it's ok to create a permanent underclass of those US taxpaying citizens who were denied an education.

32 posted on 12/07/2007 11:01:01 AM PST by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: NCjim

Huh? My kid goes to UNC Chapel Hill and her tuition for the 2007-2008 year is $8,500 plus all of the extra niceties. Furthermore, illegals’ are law breakers and under federal law considered fugitives. Any enterprise whether school, church, or business that deals with illegals should have the obligation to report them for deportation.


33 posted on 12/07/2007 11:08:59 AM PST by DownInFlames (,)
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To: mtbopfuyn

I triple dog dare them to pull this stunt. It could make the Democrat party a permanent underclass in NC politics. NC Republicans - beware not to get pulled into the undertow.


34 posted on 12/07/2007 11:11:34 AM PST by vrwconspiracist
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To: vrwconspiracist
It could make the Democrat party a permanent underclass in NC politics.

probably not...although I would love to see it happen. I do not have a link but there are many people, on the dole, in NC and there are certain people who could care less what the democrats do. The governor, the legislature, most all elected offices at the state level, and many at the local level are held by democrats. The federal offices are held by Republicans. I have always thought there may be massive voter fraud in North Carolina, with the number of democrats hold public office in the state, but hey...I know nothing.

35 posted on 12/07/2007 11:38:54 AM PST by From One - Many (Trust the Old Media At Your Own Risk. I Will Be Voting for Mr. Duncan Hunter, fellow FReepers.)
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To: bcsco

Ping...did you see this thread?


36 posted on 12/07/2007 2:03:10 PM PST by indcons
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To: NCjim

bmflr

.

.

.

Why the smart money is on Duncan Hunter
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926032/posts


37 posted on 12/07/2007 2:54:44 PM PST by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)
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