Skip to comments.Historic split for U.S. Episcopals
Posted on 12/08/2007 4:08:01 PM PST by Zakeet
FRESNO, California (Reuters) - An entire California diocese of the U.S. Episcopal Church voted to secede on Saturday in a historic split after years of disagreement over the church's expanding support for gay and women's rights.
Clergy and lay representatives of the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin, based in Fresno in central California, voted to leave the church, which has been in turmoil since 2003 when U.S. Episcopalians consecrated their first openly gay bishop.
"We've seen a miracle here today," Bishop John-David Schofield said after the vote. "We are already outside the jurisdiction of the Episcopal Church."
The head of the U.S. Episcopal Church, Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, said the church had received word of the decision "with sadness."
"We deeply regret their unwillingness or inability to live within the historical Anglican understanding of comprehensiveness," she said in a statement.
There are about 2.4 million members of the Episcopal Church, the U.S. branch of the 77-million-member global Anglican Communion, as the worldwide church is called.
Delegates voted 173-22 for secession, far more than the two-thirds majority needed.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
Bishop John-David Schofield (center) speaks to reporters after his diocese
voted to secede from the U.S. Episcopal Church in Fresno, California
December 8, 2007. An entire California diocese of the U.S. Episcopal
Church voted to secede on Saturday in a historic split following years of
disagreement over the church's expanding support for gay and women's rights.
I find it amazing that the folks in California got fed up with the garbage. :)
OTH, the Catholic church does not promote homosexuality but has an ongoing problem with homo priests.
This is above my paygrade.
Reuters wordsmiths at work again.....its not about gay and woman's rights. Its about sanctioning gay marriage & rostering gay pastors. As far as the women's rights reference goes - I don't see its connection to this dioceses opposition to the church's effort to eliminate any reference to God in the masculine in all literature.
It would never happen in Coastal California. Inland California ( with certain exceptions) is still part of America. Those of us on the coast live under the domination of the lunatic fringe.
Two questions; does the Protestant Bible use to Book Of Leviticus? And if it does, isn't this issue spelled out there rather plainly?
Bishop Tinkerbell was unavailable for comment, as he was busy at a truck stop.
(..and the only reason I am trying to joke about it is so I do not vomit. This WAS my church, long ago, and I miss it.)
Everyone has their limits. Sounds like they reached theirs.
Of course, both the King James and NEB did not expunge it!
Nor did they expunge the heavy admonition not to do so at the very end, either.
The argument I heard advanced (And I am not offering to argue, or anything) is that the Old Law was fulfilled. Fulfilled, maybe, but not deleted.
Does this mean the church loses it’s property—buildings, etc.?
An entire California diocese of the U.S. Episcopal Church voted to secede on Saturday in a historic split after years of disagreement over the church’s expanding support for gay and women’s rights.
It is not a womens right to murder her unborn child.
No, it is a disagreement about the authority of Scripture and Tradition and the redefinition of sin as not being sin.
All of the churches, property and cathedrals that the Episcopal church manages to keep will not help them one iota to gain access to heaven.
Think a minute. WHY would the liberal media want to attack the Episcopalians, who support every single liberal cause you ever heard of, including 'gay rights', New Age paganism, the UN, 'peace activism', etc. etc.?
On the other hand, WHY would the liberal media NOT want to attack the Catholic Church? It is the last large organized body opposing the homosexual agenda, abortion, lib/rad feminism, and other causes dear to the liberals' hearts.
There's your motive.
Here are the facts:
1. The Catholic problem is mostly in the past. The overwhelming majority of the incidents took place in the 60s and 70s, fewer in the 80s, almost none in the 90s and beyond. The Vatican (which has traditionally been reluctant to interfere within a bishop's jurisdiction, especially in the U.S.) got involved directly -- the worst offending bishops (with the exception of a couple who are well entrenched and are going to be difficult to dislodge) were removed or kicked upstairs. Most bishops also cleaned house -- there were two offenders in this diocese in the late 70s, and the diocese lowered the boom on them both. One was sent to a remote monastery where he died of a heart attack, one went to prison and was laicized. The Church is taking this very seriously - the problem is not "ongoing" as you state.
2. I used to be an Episcopalian, and I can tell you there is a serious problem with homosexual priests hitting on parishioners, especially underage ones. BOTH male and female. There have been some big insurance payouts.
But you will never hear a whisper from the liberal newsies about the actually ongoing problem in the Episcopal Church, while the Catholics have done a pretty thorough housecleaning and have called in an outside investigation firm to audit their efforts.
As a matter of fact, according to the United States Supreme Court, it is.
I think the problem is the culture at large is rotting from within (since this sort of thing isn’t limited to just religious instituions, e.g. the epidemic of school teacher abuse as well.) We live in sad and desperate times.
Wherever you have a church, you have sinners. All you can hope for is an institutional response that tries to engage in proactive prevention, as well as prompt removal and discipline of offenders.
I think that's what the Catholic Church has tried to do. We left the Episcopalians in 2003, and before we joined the Catholic Church I investigated this issue thoroughly, because like you I was very concerned by what I had read and heard.
The apostates who have seized control of the Episcopal Church of the U.S.A (ECUSA)are Godless Communists. Their embrace of buggery and feminism are merely symptoms of a much larger and more serious rot that has infested the Church. To be sure, we do not want our Priests preying on Boy Scouts and young girls, but as a matter of faith, we refuse to accept secular humanism and this is what we have been told we must do. These people hate God, they hate the U.S. and they expect that the congregations of normal people should support and subsidize their beliefs and lifestyles.
Hoorah for this diocese. Those other dioceses, if given a free choice, would do likewise. And for those Methodists and Presbyterians who are watching all of this: beware, you are next.
Gee, it’s starting to look as though I might be able to go back to an Episcopal church someday. Though I guess that even with secession, they will still be pretty liberal. But perhaps somewhere out there is an Episcopal church that isn’t too liberal. I can dream, can’t I?
I recall my Granma being up set when the Presbyterians sent money to the Angela Davis defense fund. It is like the liberals in New York City were completely disconnected from the folks out in the country.
Ya got queers, ya ain’t got church!
And we deeply regret the Episcopal Church's decision to live outside Biblical teaching. Good for this brave diocese.
Yeah, Bishop Schori, forget God's law and teachings. The "historical Anglican understanding of comprehensiveness", whatever that is, is much more important. /s
There have been plenty of homo scandals and pedophilia in the Episcopal Church. It just hasn’t gotten the press of the Catholic Church, partly because TEC has moved more aggressively against these problems to limit their financial liabilities. I think there was just recently a scandal involving a priest in the Albany, N.Y. area, for example. The Bishop of Pennsylvania knew his brother, a priest, was a pedophile and never did anything about it. He was just removed from his office.
Leviticus is there and so is Romans.
This really isn’t news. Episcopalians splintered some years ago over the ordination of an openly gay bishop. At the time, many of those Episcopalians aligned with the Anglican church.
I suppose that the only news value here is that it is CALIFORNIA Episcopalians severing ties over gay church issues.
As I understand it the property is held in the name of the diocese. That is why individual churches are being lost in the east back to the diocese.
One thing I have heard of but am unable to confirm is that the retirement system for priests are done at the national level. If so, those breaking away are putting their own financial welfare at risk. If true, we need to step up and support them.
Back in the 70’s here, a Lutheran minister abused a kid. 25 years later the kid sued the church. He ended up with the keys to the church and the congregation disbanded.
“Both sides are prepared for a protracted and expensive legal battle over church assets and other issues.”
....this is where the fight will come IMHO....we Presbyterians have has break-away churches also and technically the Presbytery owns the building, shares of stock and the minister’s retirement fund....
In red coastal county San Diego, 8 parishes in the Episcopal Diocese of San Diego left for the Anglican Comm.
There are other parishes they could also leave.
“Those of us on the coast live under the domination of the lunatic fringe.”
You are INCORRECTLY extrapolating that the entire coast is lunatic, like San Francisco area.
Factually four of the six most southern California counties voted Republican in 2004.
San Diego, Orange, Ventura and San Luis Obispo.
At the same time we plunge into libertine-ism we are imprisoned by out of control puritanism. Insanity.
... this is about control....the controllers hate and fear secessionists because they can’t control them....what the Episcopal Church ought to say to the California diocese is “go in peace”....instead we’ll have a big fight that will cost both sides.......last time the churches split was in the 1850s over slavery....I expect they’ll all split again this time over homosexuality, abortion, gun control and any number of other P.C. causes.
Apologies. Thank God we still have a path to the sea.
African Methodist Episcopal Church
The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
Alliance of Baptists
American Baptist Churches in the USA
Diocese of the Armenian Church of America
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
Church of the Brethren
The Coptic Orthodox Church in North America
The Episcopal Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Friends United Meeting
Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Hungarian Reformed Church in America
International Council of Community Churches
Korean Presbyterian Church in America
Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
Mar Thoma Church
Moravian Church in America Northern Province and Southern Province
National Baptist Convention of America
National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
Orthodox Church in America
Patriarchal Parishes of the Russian Orthodox Church in the USA
Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends
Polish National Catholic Church of America
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc.
Reformed Church in America
Serbian Orthodox Church in the U.S.A. and Canada
The Swedenborgian Church
Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch
Ukrainian Orthodox Church of America
United Church of Christ
The United Methodist Church
Yes, it is surprising that this happened in California. But I think this is something that should have happened long ago. But I do not expect the national church to let this diocese go without a fight. I look for legal action soon. Still, I think this diocese probably has its lawyers all in line, ready to hit the ground running.
I have heard nothing of the kind about the Episcopal priests. Do you have any actual documentation.
There was one scandal in our parish about 30 years ago but it involved the priest (male) and the choir director (female).
What a cliche, but, hey, it happens.
Not the liberal enclaves. This happened in my county, where folks are sane.
I left the Episcopal church shortly after this laughable excuse for a Bishop was elected. I guess I must be gullible though because I was a member for quite a few years before I found out that our Rector had a “partner”. I suspected that he was gay but did not know about his “arrangement”. About 1/4 of our congregation is gay. I overlooked it for as long as I could but no more. I have been taking Catholic instruction but am not quite ready to take that leap either. I am in limbo. Hope I don’t die while I’m there.
“We deeply regret their unwillingness or inability to live within the historical Anglican understanding of comprehensiveness...”
I may be confused, but I thought it was the half who ordained the gay priest that had broken with tradition.
What does that even mean?!
The Episcopal Church is the official Anglican church in America and part of the world-wide Anglican Communion. That's the problem. There are scores of small groups that have splintered off since back in the 1970s, all calling themselves Anglican, but all of them independent from the Anglican Communion. There are now some Episcopal congregations who have aligned themselves with the official Anglican churches in other parts of the world, such as Africa or South America. The San Joaquin Diocese is the first to this as a whole. This is a very big mess among American Anglicans. But then, welcome to life.
Also, except for the occaisional woman seducing a young boy, you don’t hear anything about teachers seducing children. It happens all the time. I would be willing to be there are far more teachers hitting on children than ever happened in the Catholic hierarchy.
If fact, I remember when I was in high school one of the male teachers was “encouraged to retire early”.
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