Posted on 12/09/2007 7:35:42 AM PST by SJackson
British spy chiefs: Iran 'hoodwinked' CIA over nuclear plans
By Tim Shipman in Washington, Philip Sherwell and Carolynne Wheeler
The Sunday Telegrapg (UK) Last Updated: 1:39am GMT 09/12/2007
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/09/wiran109.xml
British spy chiefs have grave doubts that Iran has mothballed its nuclear weapons programme, as a US intelligence report claimed last week, and believe the CIA has been hoodwinked by Teheran.
Analysts believe that Iranian staff, knowing their phones were tapped, deliberately gave misinformation
The timing of the CIA report has also provoked fury in the British Government, where officials believe it has undermined efforts to impose tough new sanctions on Iran and made an Israeli attack on its nuclear facilities more likely.
The security services in London want concrete evidence to allay concerns that the Islamic state has fed disinformation to the CIA.
The report used new evidence - including human sources, wireless intercepts and evidence from an Iranian defector - to conclude that Teheran suspended the bomb-making side of its nuclear programme in 2003. But British intelligence is concerned that US spy chiefs were so determined to avoid giving President Bush a reason to go to war - as their reports on Saddam Hussein's weapons programmes did in Iraq - that they got it wrong this time.
(Excerpt) Read more at imra.org.il ...
‘Or, are you looking for a free ride, again.’
Excuse me?.Nice to see our alliance and sacrifices at your side since Sept 2001 are respected...
Many thanks Mr RKV for once again illustrating that the alliance between our two nations unworkable and should be scrapped. (sarc)
Seriously, when we have to do something about Iran, rest assured that the UK will act in her own national interests. One of these interests is the protection of her subjects against any foreign aggressor. It sounds as though you are proposing a typically democratic isolationist policy so you hide behind your guns hoping the world doesn’t get in!!!! You make me laugh.
Free ride you say, well, I can probably speak for one and all in the UK who post on these threads that this continuing debasement of what the British are contributing to this era of expeditionary warfare outstrips all of your other allies. Well said The Scotsman, who also flagged you up on these gross insult.
Many thanks too that you say that the UK has potentially more to lose than the US. My respect to yourself for admitting that the UK is a vastly more worthwhile and advanced country than one of the colonies. (sarc, obviously!)
You lack every good thing the Americans I know stand for.
Note to you RKV. I dont know how good your spelling is, but its not ‘Uropean’, but ‘European’. Its terribly lazy to choose not to use the E, and makes about as much sense as calling you Merican!
This Brit takes exception to your comment. Unfare generalisations are the recurse of the weak mind.
Uropean is deliberate. Like it or don’t. As to what I lack or don’t you haven’t got a clue. Let’s take a look a the British messes that the US has cleaned up for you - shall we? Palestine mandate - Brits get kicked out and leaves Israel and neighbors fighting forever. Iraq - guess whose idea it was to mix Sunni, Shiite and Kurds to create the nation of Iraq? The Brits trying to divide and conquer as part of their colonial strategy. Africa - what happened to Rhodesia, eh? Urope? Well the combined armies of France and Britain which had more people and bigger economies than the Germans couldn’t keep them in check - twice. Pathetic.
Any reason for us to let Iran think we are buying into their misinformation when we are not?
So ‘Uropean’ means what then? I cant see any obvious play on words, so is it an intended slight by mis-spelling?!!!!
Lets run the rule of factual history over the messes the UK has apparently made, to be cleaned up by the US, as claimed in your post.
Iraq back in the Mandate period? I couldn’t agree with you more. The three parts of the country should never have been forced together, and still shouldn’t be, but the West has always had designs on Iraq being the bastion against Shia Islam and Iran. To hell with the people.
Rhodesia? Aka, Zimbabwe. The country was working as well as any in Africa and the minority white land owners contributed a great deal to the economy. Independence and a nationalist president has ensured that the country is defunct.
WW2? Common is the myth that the US rode in to save the UK (differing conditions/situations than the rest of continental EUROPE I grant you). Then as much of your history of that time is gleaned from the historical masterpiece, Pearl Habour (retch, spew, heave!!!!), it is highly flawed. No 1: We couldn’t lose the war against Germany. Our fleet too strong, our air force too mighty. After Hitler and Nazi Germany were defeated during perhaps the greatest battle in the history of modern war, the titanic Battle of Britain, Hitler cancelled operation Sealion (the invasion of Britain) permanently.
WW1???? Well, I know that the US did play a role, but this is greatly exaggerated by you in America. The US entered in 1917 (2 and a half years after the start, much the same as WW2. Late to both parties then weren’t you????!!!), and contributed virtually nothing to the partial victory over Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire. You may well have not bothered to be honest, and to claim that you did otherwise is a detriment to the nations that actually fought in that war and lost millions of lives defending your freedoms. Profitting off dead British and Commonwealth dead are you, Pathetic!
As for Israel...well in 1946 our military headquarters for the Palestine Mandate centred at the King David Hotel was bl;own up in a savage terrorist attack by the Irgun, resulting in 91 dead. Britain advocated a Jewish state somewhere other than smack in the middle of Muslim lands, and Uganda was widely preferred. The US, in a dominant position after WW2, dismissed this advice and established Israel on the lands of former Palestine. And we have been paying for that mistake made by the US for every second of every minute, of every hour of every day, of every year of every decade, for the last 60 years. So on behalf of myself, thanks for not a lot!!!!
PS: Read real history books instead of comics mate, you may learn something ;)
Try doing the math. I actually have a university degree in history, mate. And economics and a masters degree, so let’s just quit the bs on qualifications. The facts support my contentions - 1) the UK had an empire that got too big for it, 2) the US picked up the pieces after the UK failed to deal with the problems it created (and the French colonies to a lesser extent and 3) the French and the Brits failed to do what needed to be done to deal with Germany, and had the power to do so if they had the will. They didn’t. Maybe the Uropeans will figure out this muslim thing, but I doubt it. I’ve got kids who I don’t want sacrificed to save the Uropeans failure to defend themselves effectively. Time to get to work building your own military forces up. Probably you don’t have enough money to do socialism too. Choose one.
I dont doubt your qualifications mate, just the standard of education you received in the US. A university degree in history from the US is obviously going to be Merican centric and bias. My qualifications come from both sides of the pond, and so I am well placed to focus my arguments, without needing to resort to swearing. ;)
All kidding aside, the fact that you still hold your historically nonsensical beliefs that the US has saved Europe twice, after receiving a University education, more points out the lack of academic rigour in the US, than your supposed intellect. You seemingly didn’t feel the need to come back to the points I outlined in my previous post, concerning the inaccuracies contained in some of your comments concerning the Mericans rescuing Europe, not once but a magically fabricated twice!!! ;)
Are you more willing to allow people to go into harms way defending an Iraqi’s right to vote, and not the European (ergo the Western) way of life? I doubt it, and think your comment was based more on hyperbole than conviction. And all this anger at Britain just because our intelligence has an opinion that differs from you in the US. Wow, the price of dissent indeed!!!
The thread isn’t about socialism in the UK (or your warped image of it), nor EUROPE for that matter. This thread deals with the threat that a nuclear armed Iran poses to the region, and in effect, Western interests. That MI6 has reason to believe that Iran has duped the US into thinking its nuclear industry was offline should be enough to get some heads moving on your side of the pond. After all, its only prudent to investigate the potential. But instead, Mr Merica gets all defensive, and calls the Brits names...
Kindergarten diplomacy my FRiend.
I have every reason to doubt both your credentials and logic. You seem to be oblivious to Uropes failure to defend itself effectively against ANY outside power in the last 100 years.
While I have conducted myself in a good manner, the responses from yourself shows a man who doesn’t want a Brit telling him whats right and wrong. Fools pride, hubris, or something else, I cant be sure of, but you have an axe to grind against the British and EUROPEANS in general with your continued ignorance in this thread. Again, the thread concerns the actions of Iran, less than if you think Europe is able to defend herself. (which with nuclear weapons, we certainly are, more so than in the Mericans back yard, Latin America.)
The point is that an alternative intelligence agency has come up with a theory that counters your own, and you have got your backs against the wall, closing your eyes and ears in case you’re wrong. Sounds like Fools Pride to me. Why wont you deal with the thread as it is, instead of trying to make another argument elsewhere. Certainly, if this is how your attained your postgraduate qualifications, they must be giving them away for free in the US.
You have no reason to doubt me, having gone to University in Massachusetts USA and Manchester and Lincoln in the UK. But again, in the face of this fact, I suspect you might bury your head in the sand and pretend it isn’t their. Much as your administration is doing in Iran’s case..... ;)
I am good aren’t I? But then, as its rhetorical, I don’t need your reply! And I can spell...
I can spell, aside from the myriad typo’s that crept in to my last post!
Ohhh, the shame!
UK vs Argentina. 1981.
Hah. Hah. Hah. That’s all you can come up with? Yep. I guess it is. Pathetic.
And still you choose not to deal with the issue at hand. I am truly amazed at the myopic attitude you are showing.
In any case, can I get back to you with an ‘I told you so’ when we all find out Iran didn’t stop their nuclear plans???
American War of 1812. UK and colonies defeats Merican aggression as US tried to occupy Canada.
And the Crimean as well. Charge of the Light Brigade and all that, being a student of history you will be well versed in its facts, right?
Not to mention, the Cold War with her American allies (as they were then).
And still you wont be moved to address the issue at hand. Thats the least you could do, come on, give it your best shot! You wont will you, nah, course not, you aint doing lickity spit!
No you continue to deny the real issue. Do something about Iran without the US. I dare you. The UK can’t do it. Urope won’t do it. The Russians like high oil prices and therefore sell arms to Iran, so the Russkies aren’t going to do it for you. All in all, Iran is a menace. They’re going to make atomic bombs sooner rather than later. Take care of that will you? Let us know how it goes. We’ve carried Urope long enough.
“Ahmadinejad is harmless” bump
On this matter, I’d trust the Brits.
Exactly. These political creeps have made war more likely rather than less likely.
Unfair generalisations? The jihadis are taking over Europe and all the Europeans talk about is man-made global warming that may or may not be caused by CO2 and may or may raise sea levels ever so slowly. Britain is under attack from within on a scale it’s never seen and its guilt ridden liberals that control the country don’t care.
Your entire post was an unfair generalisation. Jihadis aren’t ‘taking over’ Europe, despite what your media and rumour mongers that pass for journalists say over your side of the pond. There is a problem with internal terrorism certainly, but if I can just remind the readers of a little campaign called The Troubles that lasted decades, with the British people having to endure terrorism that was financed in part through allies.
We know full well, as do our European partners, the threat that faces us. This is going to be a generational battle against radical Islamic terrorism, and as you will know the UK’s own armed forces are on constant rotation with virtually every single soldier heading to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan at some point.
You guys are doing little to allay my fears that the US, when the Dems come to power, is going to withdraw from the world and enter a protracted period of isolationism. You have to work to keep allies you know, they aren’t a given and you can never take them for granted. The attitude on these pages leads me to believe that our former allies want to run away and hide while we get on with the job of countering this threat.
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