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Fox News: Romney mailer “is not true”
http://www.eyeon08.com/ ^ | 12/09/2007 | Soren Dayton

Posted on 12/09/2007 6:35:35 PM PST by JRochelle

Chris Wallace of Fox News Sunday called one of Mitt Romney’s mailers in New Hampshire "not true." Watch the video.

What is Romney’s strategy? Lie about everything through the primary? CNN caught him being dodgy yesterday. But the guy has the money to do it.

I don’t think that the Republican Party wants a guy who spends millions of his own money to spread lies about other Republicans. I just think that the party is more decent than that.

UPDATE: Quote of the day from Rudy Giuliani’s campaign:

"Mitt Romney’s already changed his own position on illegal immigration, so it should come as no surprise that he’s trying to change everybody else’s position as well."


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: lyingmitt; phony; romney
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To: mbraynard

DO NOT PING ME TO YOUR DREK ANY MORE.


151 posted on 12/10/2007 7:29:07 AM PST by Politicalmom (Huckabee is the GOP's Jimmy Carter. Are you ready for the plundering of your pocketbook?)
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To: mbraynard
Nice try MB.

FDT

As far as perfect as the enemy of the good, I am no fan of that either, hence why I can support Thompson.

However I prefer close enough to perfect over the not even close with the wind at it’s back down hill on a good day.

Anymore wit you want to share, I enjoy entertainment.

Next...

152 posted on 12/10/2007 7:33:57 AM PST by ejonesie22 (In America all people have a right to be wrong, some just exercise it a bit much...)
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To: TAdams8591; All
Show me one place I have been less than honest in my criticism of Mitt Romney. Indeed I use his own words and actions as listed in as neutral resources as are available.

And find one place I have said I hate Mitt Romney or made any, and I mean any comments about his faith other than to say he is a Mormon.

Also I will not mention the Jeri is a slut, a stripper and Fred is dying comments from team Mitt over the past few months. Please not the a,most total lack of ANY comments about Mitt's wife however./p>

Get a grip. Mitt is not a Conservative, at least not in deed, though he is pretty and sounds good.

Sorry, that is not enough, but thanks for playing.

153 posted on 12/10/2007 7:39:37 AM PST by ejonesie22 (In America all people have a right to be wrong, some just exercise it a bit much...)
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To: mbraynard

Feel free to ping me to your dreck anytime. LOL!


154 posted on 12/10/2007 7:42:15 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: TAdams8591
Well said TAdams8591!!!

There is a vast difference between criticism of political beliefs and historical actions and the kind of visceral hatred being used on this website by some.

If I wanted to read hateful posts about Republican candidates, I would be visiting OpEdNews.com or DU. There is more than enough of that taking place on the Lefty looney tunes sites like those. The discourse on this website should be held to a higher standard...unless Conservatives have so devolved as to be on better than their Liberal counterparts.

I would attribute it to youthful exuberance, except I get the distinct impression that a majority of the most virulent bile being spewed here is from individuals who are old enough to know better.
155 posted on 12/10/2007 7:46:21 AM PST by Sudetenland (Liberals love "McCarthyism," they just believe he was targeting the wrong side.)
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To: mbraynard
I haven't read this thread and am not sure why I was pinged, but since I was, here's my comment:

It's as if Duncan Hunter or Lazy Fred had sent out the mailer, people would be cheering them, but because it's from this Morman guy with the great family photo that pisses of a bunch of Freeper/Ham radio operators whose wives left them and kids won't talk to them anymore, suddenly we have to defend McCain and his amnesty bill.

You won't find anywhere that I've defended McCain. And if this "Morman guy" (as you call him) doesn't want his religion to be an issue, perhaps he should stop bringing it up.

Carry on with your Fred-detta...

156 posted on 12/10/2007 7:53:08 AM PST by jellybean (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=dailyfread Proud Ann-droid and a Steyn-aholic)
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To: ejonesie22; All

No offense taken, but what does your opinion of Mitt have to do with Chris Wallace falsly accusing him of being a liar?


157 posted on 12/10/2007 7:59:51 AM PST by mbraynard (Tagline changed due to admin request)
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To: SE Mom
I didn't anything about supporters of Thompson or HUnter per se. Hunter's a great guy and would make a great president.

My point was just that because the criticism of McCain was coming from Romney, it's odd that folks seem to be more eager than ever to take McCain's side (even though McCain is in the wrong, here).

158 posted on 12/10/2007 8:02:03 AM PST by mbraynard (Tagline changed due to admin request)
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To: jellybean

Wasn’t directed at you. Fred-detta? I like that one. Fred’s not really on my radar, though, since I’m only paying attention to people who are running for president.


159 posted on 12/10/2007 8:04:36 AM PST by mbraynard (Tagline changed due to admin request)
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To: Politicalmom; mbraynard

WHAT POLITICALMOM SAID.


160 posted on 12/10/2007 8:19:22 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Romney, fooled TWICE by a Columbian gardener...what kind of discernment for POTUS is this?)
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To: ejonesie22; TAdams8591

and yes, i have to agree with Ejonesie in re; the intensely personal trashing of Fred by mitt supporters. you can’t bemoan the breaking of the 11th commandment when those who support your chosen candidate are as quick to throw mud as the next guy. i have personally seen plenty of hateful stuff from mitt supporters directed towards fred. and i have NEVER personally trashed any of the candidates. i will vote for the nominee, and i just pray to God it isn’t Rudy.


161 posted on 12/10/2007 8:30:56 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: mbraynard; JRochelle; SE Mom; Petronski; Politicalmom; ejonesie22; jellybean
My point was just that because the criticism of McCain was coming from Romney, it's odd that folks seem to be more eager than ever to take McCain's side (even though McCain is in the wrong, here).

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

162 posted on 12/10/2007 8:34:13 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Romney, fooled TWICE by a Columbian gardener...what kind of discernment for POTUS is this?)
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To: xsmommy
"there are a number of us that also look to electability as a criterion and find that Mitt is not it."

I believe my reply in #143 was a general comment not geared to any particular candidate. If you consider electability when considering candidates good for you. We certainly can disagree about who may be electable and who isn't. But to discount it as a consideration all together, is most unwise.

163 posted on 12/10/2007 9:43:22 AM PST by TAdams8591 ((Mitt Romney '08, THE ONLY candidate who can defeat Giuliani and Hillary ))
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To: xsmommy
"there are also raised hackles, and screams about the 11th commandment, over any attempts to point out inconsistencies and problematic positions and flawed personal baggage, all of which is fair game."

I agree with the above. However, the poster to which you originally commented was talking more about the hate filled rhetoric than sincere and honest criticism and discussion about the various candidates.

164 posted on 12/10/2007 9:49:34 AM PST by TAdams8591 ((Mitt Romney '08, THE ONLY candidate who can defeat Giuliani and Hillary ))
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To: TAdams8591

and like i said, there is plenty of hatefilled rhetoric issuing forth from Mitt supporters. so i would say that those with unclean hands really can’t cry about that. and while i have never bashed, i can’t assert that no fred supporter has ever bashed, so i accept that there are NO clean hands in this hateful rhetoric. it is a matter of public record on FR that mitt supporters have engaged similarly. we really need to just face facts and not hide behind WELL THEY STARTED IT. there are no clean hands, period.


165 posted on 12/10/2007 9:53:00 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: ejonesie22; xsmommy
Show me where any of the comments I made on this thread were specific to a particular candidate or poster.

Why would you think my attempt to clarify a general point made by another poster, has anything to do with you, jonsie?

166 posted on 12/10/2007 9:56:06 AM PST by TAdams8591 ((Mitt Romney '08, THE ONLY candidate who can defeat Giuliani and Hillary ))
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To: SE Mom; mbraynard; CharlesWayneCT; JRochelle; Petronski; Bommer; restornu; EGPWS; BluH2o; jdm; ...
Is this not being disingenuous when the topic is ignored when the facts contradict acuasation?

The topic is "Romney mailer “is not true" about McCain’s record that Christ Wallace try to portray?

Either Christ Wallace did not do his homework or he was misleading!

Now the Fact is Mitt was telling the truth about McCain Record you can read it on McCain’s own web site.

John McCain on Immigration Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.

It is so disapppinting when folks can’t show their better self when facts are presented, and not try to change the subject.

If we want better government does it not start with us?

167 posted on 12/10/2007 10:06:02 AM PST by restornu (Harry Reid's going to get Daschled)
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To: xsmommy
I have made some critical comments about Fred, but for the most part rarely respond to the Fred threads, or comment about Fred at all. I am too busy defending and supporting my candidate. That is true of most of the Mitt supporters.

In most of the instances when I do mention Fred, it is to compare/contrast his position on an issue to that of other candidates, or my own chosen candidate.

Sorry to disappoint you XS, but there is no comparison between me and the some of the obsessed haters of various candidates discussed on this forum.

168 posted on 12/10/2007 10:08:20 AM PST by TAdams8591 ((Mitt Romney '08, THE ONLY candidate who can defeat Giuliani and Hillary ))
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To: Sudetenland
Au contraire; Rudy was formidible on Meet the Press. He made Tim Russert look the fool.

LOL That seems to be a matter of opinion.

169 posted on 12/10/2007 10:08:24 AM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: restornu

Where is the mailer? Has it been posted online? Is it in this thread somewhere that I missed?

It seems to me we cannot ascertain whether or not the mailer “is not true” without reading what claims it makes (ALL of them) and comparing them to the record.


170 posted on 12/10/2007 10:17:06 AM PST by Petronski (Reject the liberal superfecta: huckabee, romney, giuliani, mccain)
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To: restornu
...you can read it on McCain’s own web site.

Do you have a link to what he said on his own website?

171 posted on 12/10/2007 10:18:21 AM PST by Petronski (Reject the liberal superfecta: huckabee, romney, giuliani, mccain)
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To: Petronski

I think you are being obtuse again. Just look at the clip of Chris Wallace quoting from it. It’s just flat wrong. Dollars do doughnuts the mailer has a footnote with the vote to table the Ensign amendment.


172 posted on 12/10/2007 10:36:10 AM PST by mbraynard (Tagline changed due to admin request)
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To: TAdams8591

Not remotely disappointed, as i nowhere intimated that YOU were someone who engaged in the behavior. my point is NO one’s CAMP has clean hands. i won’t, but easily could, list a number of mitt supporters who do so engage.


173 posted on 12/10/2007 10:49:08 AM PST by xsmommy
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To: mbraynard

Go back to my post and start over.

We will work on it from there...

I’ll make diagrams if it will help.


174 posted on 12/10/2007 11:42:25 AM PST by ejonesie22 (In America all people have a right to be wrong, some just exercise it a bit much...)
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To: TAdams8591; xsmommy
Public Forum.

I know, being a fan of the socialist Romney in his slick new Conservative costume gets confusing in regards to First Amendment rights and such.

175 posted on 12/10/2007 11:44:31 AM PST by ejonesie22 (In America all people have a right to be wrong, some just exercise it a bit much...)
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To: TAdams8591
Sorry to disappoint you XS, but there is no comparison between me and the some of the obsessed haters of various candidates discussed on this forum

Isn't that the truth? The number of questionable comments made by Mitt supporters about Fred are infinitesimal compared to the daily barrage of Mitt hate spewed by Fred supporters. And, this issue is a great example. Here we have the FNC's Wallace (network shilling for Rudy) and McCain (conservative backstabber) receiving cover for their lies about Mitt's flyer and the truth about McCain's dismal record on illegal aliens. Sad.

176 posted on 12/10/2007 12:01:50 PM PST by redgirlinabluestate (STOP Huck & Rudy -- Unite 4 Mitt -- Beat Hillary)
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To: redgirlinabluestate
I think if you use this forum for anything other than entertainment and mild news aggregation, you are giving the Strangers at Keyboards (TM) too much credit.

Take a deep breath. If you haven't already, go sign up on Willard's site and they will put you to work.

177 posted on 12/10/2007 12:12:04 PM PST by mbraynard (Tagline changed due to admin request)
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To: ejonesie22
Mitt is not a Conservative, at least not in deed,

Oh, thanks. It's been a bit since I posted the sample of Romney deeds no liberal (or even moderate) would be caught doing:

In the four balanced budgets he signed into law, Governor Romney used the line-item veto or program reduction power to cut spending by nearly $1 Billion.

4 years ago --- before the illegals marched in our streets --- Romney opposed a bill that would have allowed illegal aliens to get driver’s licenses. "Those who are here illegally should not receive tacit support from our government that gives an indication of legitimacy," the governor said. (Scott S. Greenberger, "Romney Stand Dims Chances Of License For Undocumented," The Boston Globe, 10/28/03)

Romney vetoed a bill in 2004 that would have permitted illegal aliens to pay the same in-state tuition rate paid by citizens at public colleges and universities in Massachusetts.

Romney vetoed the bill providing state funding for human embryonic stem cell research

Governor Romney filed a bill enabling Massachusetts prosecutors to seek the death penalty in cases of first-degree murders that were committed as an act of political terrorism, assassination of law enforcement officials, or multiple killings. Massachusetts is one of only 12 states that do not have a capital punishment sentencing option.

Romney vetoed a bill that provided for the "morning after pill" without a prescription because it is an abortifacient and would have been available to minors without parental notification and consent

He vetoed legislation which would have redefined Massachusetts longstanding definition of the beginning of human life from fertilization to implantation

Governor Romney strongly supported a successful ballot initiative that replaced the state's bilingual program with English immersion. (Romney Vows to Protect English Immersion Law, May 1, 2003)

Governor Romney demonstrated his commitment to school-choice by vetoing a bill that would have canceled funding for Massachusetts' charter-school program. (Romney to Veto Charter School Moratorium, June 23, 2004)

He supported parental notification laws and opposed efforts to weaken parental involvement

He fought to promote abstinence education in public school classrooms with a program offered by faith-based Boston group Healthy Futures to middle school students.

Over the course of four budgets, Governor Romney made over 300 line-item reductions, 350 line-item eliminations and struck language 150 times.

Gov. Romney was instrumental in passing a bill abolishing a retroactive capital gains tax in the state that would have forced nearly 50,000 taxpayers to pay an additional $200 million in state taxes and fees

Romney diligently lobbied Congress in favor of a Federal Marriage Amendment (FMA) to the U.S. Constitution defining marriage to be between one man and one woman. Romney testified before the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee on the Federal Marriage Amendment, and sent a letter to all 100 U.S. Senators on June 2, 2006 asking them to vote for the Amendment

178 posted on 12/10/2007 12:18:27 PM PST by redgirlinabluestate (STOP Huck & Rudy -- Unite 4 Mitt -- Beat Hillary)
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To: redgirlinabluestate
Were these before he was personally pro choice, but privately pro life or after...

Maybe they were during...

No wait, some of those were back when he favored gay rights...

Or was it he was against them...

Ah, yeah, some of these were during Romney Care....

It is all so confusing when you have some one playing at being a Conservative...

You guys have been peddling that crap for a while and looks like you have made few if any converts among the very knowledgeable Conservatives on the Net's top political web site.

If numerous people come in from outside wet and tell you it's raining, take their word for it.

179 posted on 12/10/2007 12:41:13 PM PST by ejonesie22 (In America all people have a right to be wrong, some just exercise it a bit much...)
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To: ejonesie22
Not very informative, nor particulary even funny and certainly doesn't rebut one deed listed as a conservative one.
180 posted on 12/10/2007 12:58:19 PM PST by redgirlinabluestate (STOP Huck & Rudy -- Unite 4 Mitt -- Beat Hillary)
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To: redgirlinabluestate
You are right.

You win.

All 1500-2000 of us Fred supporters and others will now join you couple of hundred folk who support Mitt because we were all wrong, we can’t read and have no sense of history.

Damn you are good. You have totally change the definition of what it means to be a Conservative.

Impressive.

181 posted on 12/10/2007 2:08:58 PM PST by ejonesie22 (In America all people have a right to be wrong, some just exercise it a bit much...)
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To: ejonesie22

LOL. There’s a real world out there outside of FR. If FR was truly representative, today’s poll results would be far different and Bush would never have been elected in 2000 according to old FR poll results. It’s nice you all have such a big group of friends here, but let’s not get carried away.


182 posted on 12/10/2007 2:14:41 PM PST by redgirlinabluestate (STOP Huck & Rudy -- Unite 4 Mitt -- Beat Hillary)
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To: redgirlinabluestate

Yes, I live in it, it is where Mitt is not a conservative either.


183 posted on 12/10/2007 2:20:13 PM PST by ejonesie22 (In America all people have a right to be wrong, some just exercise it a bit much...)
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To: All

I have taken the time to look up the references. Here is the text of the amendment:

AMENDMENT PURPOSE:
To reduce document fraud, prevent identity theft, and preserve the integrity of the Social Security system, by ensuring that persons who receive an adjustment of status under this bill are not able to receive Social Security benefits as a result of unlawful activity.

This was an amendment to the overall Comprehensive Immigration Reform bill. The question in play here is did McCain vote for or against this amendment’s being attached to the bill.

The references in the biased website posted earlier in the thread that claimed McCain DID vote AGAINST attaching this amendment was invalid. The reference went only to the final vote on the overall Comprehensive Immigration bill, and we know McCain voted in favor of that — but that is not the issue of Romney’s flier. What was needed is to see the vote on just this amendment and how McCain voted on it.

The answer is here. It is very hard to work through the Senate text, but this appears to be it:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r109:1:./temp/~r109DspD5v:e494528:

This indicates that a vote on the amendment was taken. The anti comprehensive reform forces voted YAY. The pro comprehensive reform forces voted NO.

McCain voted NO on that vote. This does appear to indicate Romney’s flier is “accurate” to the extent most such things are. A better description would be “justified” in the context that such extreme interpretations are normal in campaigns. McCain was voting to try to save that bill from killer amendments and might not explicitly support the overall idea, but he did vote NAY and that means the flier is valid.

This is normal stuff. Wallace calling this “not true” is incorrect. The Senate record is right there.


184 posted on 12/10/2007 2:54:21 PM PST by Owen
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To: mbraynard
Yeah, and McCain is completely honest when he says the Z visa in his Immigration Reform Bill isn’t amnesty.

Yeah, and Romney is completely honest when he says he "longed to be in Vietnam" when John McCain was sweating it out in a North Vietnamese prison.

185 posted on 12/10/2007 4:08:17 PM PST by meandog (I'm one of the FEW and the BRAVE FReepers still supporting John McCain)
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To: meandog
Is there any reason to doubt the writings of an 18 year old guy? Honestly, if you were doing LDS missionary work in France during that time, you might wonder where you could better spend your time.

I know Hillary went after Obama because of what he said in kindergarten. Are you going to go that far?

Now, just to put in context how pathetic your comparison is, McCain to this DAY insists his bill was not an amnesty bill. How do you square that?

186 posted on 12/10/2007 4:45:49 PM PST by mbraynard (Tagline changed due to admin request)
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To: mbraynard
Is there any reason to doubt the writings of an 18 year old guy? Honestly, if you were doing LDS missionary work in France during that time, you might wonder where you could better spend your time. I know Hillary went after Obama because of what he said in kindergarten. Are you going to go that far? Now, just to put in context how pathetic your comparison is, McCain to this DAY insists his bill was not an amnesty bill. How do you square that?

Well, the most pressing issue for me (and I would hope for most Americans) is the Global War on Terror. Immigration takes a back seat...Having recently visited China and seen a lot of "ABCs" (American Born Chinese) there, my hope is that the illegal Hispanics will eventually return to their own countries when those nations throw off the culture of El Caudillo politics and envy for Yankquismo to develop their natural resources and prosper as we have. So to answer you question McCain, I feel, is the most qualified to fight the war on terror.

187 posted on 12/10/2007 5:29:20 PM PST by meandog (I'm one of the FEW and the BRAVE FReepers still supporting John McCain)
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To: JRochelle

So what was the lie?


188 posted on 12/10/2007 5:32:34 PM PST by Hoodat (satan always overplays his hand)
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