Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

New ban on .22 ammunition - Anti-lead rules designed to protect condors
Ventura County Star ^ | December 8, 2007 | Timm Herdt

Posted on 12/10/2007 10:51:23 PM PST by neverdem


AP file photo New rules on .22-caliber ammunition will apply only to areas where the endangered California condor roams, including the Big Sur area, above.

SACRAMENTO — California hunting regulators Friday broadened a prohibition on lead bullets scheduled to take effect July 1, adding .22-caliber ammunition to the ban.

The new rules will apply only in those areas where the endangered California condor roams — generally, the coastal mountains from Monterey south to Ventura County and in the southern Sierra.

The action by the Fish and Game Commission follows enactment of a landmark law signed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger this fall that bans the use of lead ammunition by deer hunters in the affected areas.

Lead poisoning is the leading cause of sickness and death among condors in the wild, and condor researchers say bullet fragments in the carcasses of fallen animals are the principal source of the poisoning.

Conservationists praised the regulations, adopted on a 3-1 vote.

"This is another victory for the California condor," said Graham Chisolm of Audubon California. "The commission took the right steps to ensure that the new law is implemented in a way that makes the most sense for both the condor and hunters."

"These regulations go above and beyond the scope of the law," said Pamela Flick, state program director for Defenders of Wildlife.

She noted that the law would have provided an exemption for .22-caliber ammunition, which is typically used to shoot non-game animals such as ground squirrels and black crows. Alternatives to lead ammunition for .22-caliber rifles is not yet commercially available.

Adrianna Shea, the commission's deputy executive director, said commissioners hope their action will spur manufacturers to produce nonlead alternatives. Copper bullets are already available for larger caliber rifles that are typically used for deer hunting.

She noted the dissenting vote of Commissioner Jim Kellogg was based solely on his objection to including .22-caliber ammunition in the ban.

Shea said the commission's action was independent from the law, and Friday's vote simply completed a regulatory process the commission initiated months ago.

The regulations also go one step beyond the law by banning not just the use but also the possession of lead ammunition in the affected areas. That distinction, she noted, will make it easier for wardens to enforce the ban.

Schwarzenegger in October signed AB 821 by Assemblyman Pedro Nava, D-Santa Barbara, over the objections of firearms manufacturers and gun-owner groups, including the National Rifle Association.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: 22ammunition; 2ndamendment; antileadrules; armedcitizen; banglist; condors; environment; rkba; science
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-58 next last

1 posted on 12/10/2007 10:51:27 PM PST by neverdem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: neverdem
No Problem.
2 posted on 12/10/2007 11:05:14 PM PST by Westlander (Unleash the Neutron Bomb)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

DU bullets hit harder than lead anyway. A little hard on a .22 barrel, but, HEY! If they don’t want lead....


3 posted on 12/10/2007 11:07:18 PM PST by ApplegateRanch (If God didn't want a Liberal hanging from every tree, He wouldn't have created so much rope!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Depleted uranium is a good substitute for lead ammunition. I think it’s pretty cheap too.


4 posted on 12/10/2007 11:09:02 PM PST by antinomian (Show me a robber baron and I'll show you a pocket full of senators.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

They love their buzzards in California. The conventional lead ammo isn’t really good for the shooter anyway so maybe this is a good thing. You can target shoot with those Disintegrators and use the Federal BallistiCleans for everything else. The price needs to come down a lot on both though.


5 posted on 12/10/2007 11:09:36 PM PST by WildcatClan (Vote Hunter for President)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WildcatClan
"The conventional lead ammo isn’t really good for the shooter anyway...

Ya lost me on that one Bubba! Can you elaborate a bit?

6 posted on 12/10/2007 11:37:53 PM PST by JDoutrider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

And on a semi-related note:

A California man stood in front of the judge, having pled guilty to the charge of actually shooting, broiling and eating an American bald eagle, the judge said “do you have anything to say for yourself?”

The man sadly said “Yes your Honor, I do. I am ashamed of having eaten our national emblem, but I’ve been out of work for almost a year, my family is living with me in our station wagon after losing our house, and my kids were hungry so I used a .22 rifle to shoot that eagle. I’m sorry your Honor, but I did what I felt I had to do.”

The judge, moved by the sad story said “my God man, I cannot imagine what you and your family must be going through. I will adjudicate you as guilty, but suspend the fine and any jail time, you’re free to go.”

The man said gratefully “thank you your honor, I won’t do it again.” and as he began to leave the courtroom the judge said “just a moment, out of curiosity, what does a broiled bald eagle taste like anyway?”

The man said “ohhh, it’s hard to describe your Honor, I suppose it’s kind of like a cross between a spotted owl and a California Condor....”

:)


7 posted on 12/10/2007 11:46:05 PM PST by mkjessup (Hunter-Bolton '08 !! Patriots who will settle for nothing less than *Victory* in the War on Terror!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Confistication of all things Bang Bang wise, is fast approaching Californicate... Time for all those who haven't left yet is here!

Get out NOW! Or prepare to lose all your weaponry, and ammo, and become a prospective felon!

This year marks the 20th year this Gold Rush family member had had enough and moved! Unfortunately, I landed in the Socialist state of Washington... (where at least they respect the 2nd amendment and issue Concealed Carry permits to anyone that doesn't have a felony/drug convictions!)

8 posted on 12/10/2007 11:53:34 PM PST by JDoutrider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

First a ban on certain rifles, then cartridge engraving bolt faces and firing pins, now a lead ban.

Just an attempt to make guns illegal without really “banning” them. Something Kali has been trying to do since the citizens turned down a gun ban way back in the early 1980’s.


9 posted on 12/11/2007 12:06:31 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

I suppose a FMJ will kill a Condor just as easily as a lead bullet. It all depends on where you hit it.


10 posted on 12/11/2007 12:11:46 AM PST by VeniVidiVici (No buy China!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

What did the people who wrote the words “... shall not be abridged” really mean?


11 posted on 12/11/2007 12:16:37 AM PST by fella (The proper application of the truth far more important than the knowledge of it's existance."Ike")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Agreed. Creeping incrementalism to simply erode the 2'nd with a thousand cuts.
12 posted on 12/11/2007 12:19:39 AM PST by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

This has nothing to do with the Condor. Someone is wringing their hands because .22 ammo is so cheap, they feel it could be used in a massacre of sorts. unless you get off some lucky shots, .22 ammo is just going to piss someone off. I have seen epsidoes of real ER cases where a man shot himself in the mouth with a .22 gun and the round didn’t even penetrate his orbit.


13 posted on 12/11/2007 12:26:30 AM PST by LukeL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

The law as I read it means that even if one has possession of the lead .22 ammunition one is liable for arrest and prosecution...I guess one needs to just carry RPG’s in this area since they are deemed safer.


14 posted on 12/11/2007 12:50:06 AM PST by vetvetdoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

I didn’t know hunting was still allowed in CA. Good for them.


15 posted on 12/11/2007 12:57:10 AM PST by Tenacious 1 (I put my foot in my mouth once. I think I'll just leave it there, lest it happen again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JDoutrider

At indoor as well as outdoor ranges you can get some serious lead contamination.You get a lot of lead flying around and reclamation costs a bundle. When you fire, I think 1/5 of the lead from the round is discharged into the atmosphere. You do a lot of shooting, you are going to be breathing that stuff, gets on your hands clothes etc.

You see, the only lead isn’t in the bullet (projectile). Lead is also used to hold the controlled explosion chemicals of the primer together. When the primer explodes it releases lead into the air as well as some other nasty substances. I think antimony sulfide, mercury and barium nitrate are some of them depending on the primer compound the manufacturer uses.

I like those Disintegrator rounds for shooting at hard targets at a range. You don’t get any back-splash or ricochet with them if you hit a hard surface, but they will penetrate soft tissue. I don’t like the new lead-free rules they have at the ranges now because I have a lot of old weapons that I have rebuilt and refurbished and you can only find lead cartridges for them. So, ya have to take your .303 Enfields, Mosin Nagants, etc, out into the woods.


16 posted on 12/11/2007 1:16:09 AM PST by WildcatClan (Vote Hunter for President)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: LukeL

A .22 is high velocity it can really bounce around and tear you up. I think you have part of it right though, it is because the .22 ammo is very cheap. I don’t think they care about a massacre as much as just making it hard on gun owners, period. But as far as just making someone mad, put me in the column with the dudes that don’t want to be shot with anything. I had an old Marlin-Glenfield tube-feed when I was a kid and we would shoot that cheap ammo we got for 89 cents a box for hours. Make no mistake, a .22 rifle doesn’t have stopping power but it can kill you just as dead as a .44 or anything else.


17 posted on 12/11/2007 1:28:10 AM PST by WildcatClan (Vote Hunter for President)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: fella
What did the people who wrote the words “... shall not be abridged” really mean?

What people wrote "shall not be abridged”??

Do you mean shall not be infringed?

18 posted on 12/11/2007 2:10:22 AM PST by tiger-one (The night has a thousand eyes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

There are way too many guns in the U.S. for the feds to confiscate them all.
If Mrs. Clinton wins and the dems continue to hold the senate and congress I look for them to make sales of ammo illegal.
Stock up and bury it in a place they won’t fine if the feds come in to your home to take away your guns and ammo like they did in Australia.


19 posted on 12/11/2007 2:35:07 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Someone's going to make a fortune with a common commodity on the black market.
20 posted on 12/11/2007 2:37:51 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Caipirabob

Yeah, I’ve got about 100,000 rounds of .22LR I’ve bought a little at a time over the last few years. Thought something like this might be in the works. I handload everything else I shoot.


21 posted on 12/11/2007 3:29:20 AM PST by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: WildcatClan
" Make no mistake, a .22 rifle doesn’t have stopping power but it can kill you just as dead as a .44 or anything else."

.22's are cheap, small, and in close quarters ... the assasins favorite.

Hell, a piece of copper tube, and and elastic band make a kill machine.

22 posted on 12/11/2007 3:33:18 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Joe Boucher
Stock up

Did it during the reign of Clinton the First. I call it the "Clinton Arsenal".

23 posted on 12/11/2007 3:34:44 AM PST by Hardastarboard (DemocraticUnderground.com is an internet hate site.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: WildcatClan
When you fire, I think 1/5 of the lead from the round is discharged into the atmosphere

I see you're parotting the anti-gunner lead bs. Please explain where you found this. I'm really curious. And if you're talking about the primer, the charge in the primer is typically less than one grain of lead styphnate or lead azide, none of which forms any gaseous lead compounds on ignition.

24 posted on 12/11/2007 3:48:19 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: LukeL

“unless you get off some lucky shots,”

Umm...I think you’d better check with the Mossad.


25 posted on 12/11/2007 4:15:43 AM PST by Fireone (We need the 2nd Amendment to ensure the others. Fred Thompson/Hunter in 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: WildcatClan
Oh! ... OK!... hmmph!... Snort!... Cackle!... ROFLMAO!

Err... sorry 'bout that... Thanks for that...uh...Information!

;)

26 posted on 12/11/2007 4:48:12 AM PST by JDoutrider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: neverdem; Joe Brower; Myrddin
Slicing and dicing the 2nd Amd and our RKBA through legal tactics.

"We're going to hammer guns on the anvil of relentless legislative strategy! We're going to beat guns into submission!"

~Senator Charles Schumer, 1993


27 posted on 12/11/2007 5:26:57 AM PST by Travis McGee (---www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com---)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

28 posted on 12/11/2007 5:33:29 AM PST by CodeToad
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ...
Nibbled to death by duck bites...

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

29 posted on 12/11/2007 5:34:51 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Joe Brower
It's not like anybody foresaw something like this coming...
Can't take your guns, we'll control the Ammo (my title)
"How long will it be until all ammunition is "green", and other manufacturers are forced to comply to "green" regulations? The next step in gradual implementation would be to shut down non-compliant companies, enforcing sales through government regulations, and effectively disarming the People through lack of ammunition. No bullets, they can't fire the weapons."
30 posted on 12/11/2007 5:46:02 AM PST by philman_36
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: WildcatClan; LukeL
I don’t think they care about a massacre as much as just making it
hard on gun owners, period.


I would not be suprised if the anti-gun folks think they are going
after "the gateway drug" of lots of gun owners.
I wouldn't be shocked if some pencil-necked geek professor
has done some federally-funded study and found that the vast majority
of shooting enthusiasts "got hooked" with that common first weapon,
a .22 cal rifle.

After all, for a lot of gun owners, our "nasty habit" did start
with .22 cal guns/ammo!
31 posted on 12/11/2007 5:47:40 AM PST by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Joe Brower
It get's worse...
32 posted on 12/11/2007 5:53:24 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
also go one step beyond the law by banning not just the use but also the possession of lead ammunition in the affected areas. That distinction, she noted, will make it easier for wardens to enforce the ban.

Do we really need to look further into the reality of this law... its not for the damn birds...

33 posted on 12/11/2007 6:18:41 AM PST by Gilbo_3 (A few Rams must look after the sheep 'til the Good Shepherd returns...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dead Corpse
Gee, I feel safer already.

That .50 looked like a Serbu BFG. Serbu's about an hour north of my locale. I see their test guy at my local range once in a while.

34 posted on 12/11/2007 6:20:33 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: WildcatClan
I think 1/5 of the lead from the round is discharged into the atmosphere.

I call BS on that! I've found way too many intact lead bullets over the years. Any documentation on that, aside from the Brady Bunch?

35 posted on 12/11/2007 6:27:49 AM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution ? 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Joe Brower
Considering some of the utterly ridiculous things a person can do to "lose" their RKBA in Califfornia? Yeah... Not so good...

In my more fantastical moments, I wonder what it'd be like toting an Anzio Ironworks 20mm to a local range. ;-)

36 posted on 12/11/2007 6:41:09 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Dead Corpse

Try it and report back.

:)


37 posted on 12/11/2007 6:52:14 AM PST by wastedyears (One Marine vs. 550 consultants. Sounds like good odds to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: wastedyears

Gotta get the Missus to sign off on a $12k expenditure. It may be a while... ;-)


38 posted on 12/11/2007 7:04:49 AM PST by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Dead Corpse

Good luck

Christmas?


39 posted on 12/11/2007 7:08:23 AM PST by wastedyears (One Marine vs. 550 consultants. Sounds like good odds to me.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: WildcatClan

“The conventional lead ammo isn’t really good for the shooter anyway so maybe this is a good thing”

Do you have some science to back up this statement, or do you FEEL this is fact?

Let me posit what the SCIENTIFIC evidence shows: A shooter of lead bullets is in NO danger if shooting in a well ventilated range or outside.


40 posted on 12/11/2007 7:14:26 AM PST by ExpatGator (Extending logic since 1961.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
“The new rules will apply only in those areas where the endangered California condor roams — generally, the coastal mountains from Monterey south to Ventura County and in the southern Sierra.”

Incrementalism, people.

Once they get this law on the books, all it takes is an anti-gunner to claim that the condor “has roamed” on to some new area to extend the ban, and to extend the ban from .22s to any lead projectile.

41 posted on 12/11/2007 7:24:31 AM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (If Hillary is elected, her legacy will be telling the American people: Better put some ice on that.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: JDoutrider

I’m with you brother, we moved to Oregon in ‘90 from California mainly because of the anti-gun state government.

Oregon is a liberal state, that doesn’t mess with gun owners very much. We have concealed carry here, also.


42 posted on 12/11/2007 8:52:40 AM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
"The commission took the right steps to ensure that the new law is implemented in a way that makes the most sense for both the condor and hunters."

Oh, it makes sense all right. There's nothing difficult to understand about "we're regulating you out of business."

Fortunately this is all they want - this will be the last restrictive law in California pointed at ammunition. (Stifled hysterical laughter in background.) Does anyone remember "gun control we can live with"? That one turned out to be the AWB.

43 posted on 12/11/2007 8:53:21 AM PST by Billthedrill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

One more reason not to live in California.


44 posted on 12/11/2007 8:54:03 AM PST by Badeye (Free Willie!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
Is fishing next? Lord knows how many bottom feeders swallowed a lead weight. And how many of you have used your teeth to close a split-shot weight, or held a lead sinker in your mouth as you bait your hook? We did this countless times when we were kids, and we still do.
45 posted on 12/11/2007 9:03:05 AM PST by NavyCanDo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WildcatClan
Most of the "free' lead form shooting is lead oxide. Very inert.

As for the Condors there is NO proof that their deaths are caused by bullets. Only a theory.

46 posted on 12/11/2007 9:12:37 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ ("Has there been a code nine? Have you heard from the Doctor?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: JDoutrider

Perhaps, the “get out now” warning sounds good to Californians, but it looks like doom for the rest of the nation. Their liberal minds have been contaminated and are a plague on the rest of us. If they had been of sound mind, the socialists would be swimming in San Fran Bay not making the rest of us suffer.


47 posted on 12/11/2007 9:20:00 AM PST by Steamburg (Your wallet speaks the only language most politicians understand.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
Banning ammo gets a pass, while taxing ink used for printing presses was considered an infringement of the 1st amendment. Politicians have no problem ignoring inconvenient parts of the Bill of Rights. Especially those politicians in black robes.
48 posted on 12/11/2007 10:03:11 AM PST by Myrddin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

California condors are dumber than rocks. You won’t believe how many of them kill themselves by drinking antifreeze, or landing on power lines, or (for all we know) flying straight into the ground. A geologist/paleontologist friend of mine says there is a reason they are nearly extinct, and the reason is obvious...


49 posted on 12/11/2007 2:06:24 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ( "He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike." - John Locke, 1690)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Who is John Galt?

I forgot to mention (having lived in Kalifornia, including Ventura County, for too d@mn long) that the ‘dumber-than-a-bag-of-hammers’ endangered condors are actually smarter than your average Kalifornia voter...


50 posted on 12/11/2007 2:09:29 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ( "He therefore who may resist, must be allowed to strike." - John Locke, 1690)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-58 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson