Skip to comments.New campaign debate: Is Satan Jesus' brother?
Posted on 12/13/2007 12:10:33 AM PST by tessalu
WASHINGTON Satan has reared his ugly head in the 2008 presidential campaign literally. Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee has prompted angry denunciations of religious bigotry by rival Mitt Romney as well as an official retort from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for speculating in a New York Times Magazine interview this weekend that Mormons believe Jesus and Satan were brothers.
"On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations," says the statement. "But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel "who was in authority in the presence of God," a "son of the morning." (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:2527.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer's older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)"
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
I’m gonna say no.
Yep, he was an angelic being, not the only begotten Son of God. But humans can be heirs of God, and joint heirs of Christ through his atonement. But its tough for people to believe that, because they have been so conditioned by the their corrupt nature that blinds them to their real potential through grace and redemption.
This may be a new campaign debate, but it is a very OLD heresy.
Jesus is God, the third person of the Trinity.
Satan is an angel, created by God and cast out of heaven. He is in rebellion and has lost the war. It is finished.
This is an area that should not be tread in US politics. There is no religious test required to hold public office nor SHOULD voters use it to select a candidate. I certainly don’t desire the US to be broken up into areas that select candidates because of their religion. It hasn’t done a lot of good for Iraq nor will it do any good for the USA. If a candidate is moral (average American morals) then I don’t care what religion they follow.
I’m not picking a leader who believes Satan is Jesus’ brother.
It shows real bad judgment.
I sort of suspect they mean in a spiritual rather than a physical sense.
The real issue here is not the Mormons view of Satan, its their view of Jesus.
People who obsess about this kind of stuff, really need to get a new hobby.
I'm with you. This other nonsense has no business in a presidential debate.
That’s fair enough, although bear in mind that a man’s religion (or indeed his lack of it) is a major factor in determining his morals, his attidudes and in his all round worldview.
attidudes = attitudes. sorry.
Please note what Mormon prophets and church officials have had to say about the matter. From their writings it is clear that they believed and taught that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers.
Bruce R. McConkie, in his work The Mortal Messiah, Vol.1, Pg.407-408 under the heading “ Lucifer and the Law of Temptation” has the following to say;
“Hence, there is — and must be — a devil, and he is the father of lies and of wickedness. He and the fallen angels who followed him are spirit children of the Father. As Christ is the Firstborn of the Father in the spirit, so Lucifer is a son of the morning, one of those born in the morning of preexistence. He is a spirit man, a personage, an entity, comparable in form and appearance to any of the spirit children of the Eternal Father. He was the source of opposition among the spirit hosts before the world was made; he rebelled in preexistence against the Father and the Son, and he sought even then to destroy the agency of man. He and his followers were cast down to earth, and they are forever denied mortal bodies. And he, here on earth, along with all who follow him — both his spirit followers and the mortals who hearken to his enticements — is continuing the war that commenced in heaven.”
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr.,the LDS prophet, wrote in his work, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol.2, Pg.218 -Pg.219
“We learn from the scriptures that Lucifer — once a son of the morning, who exercised authority in the presence of God before the foundations of this earth were laid — rebelled against the plan of salvation and against Jesus Christ who was chosen to be the Savior of the world and who is spoken of as the ‘Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.’” In the Discourses of Brigham Young, on Pg.53-54 he lets it be known that Lucifer is the second son, the one known as “Son of the Morning.”
“Who will redeem the earth, who will go forth and make the sacrifice for the earth and all things it contains?” The Eldest Son said: “Here am I”; and then he added, “Send me.” But the second one, which was “Lucifer, Son of the Morning,” said, “Lord, here am I, send me, I will redeem every son and daughter of Adam and Eve that lives on the earth, or that ever goes on the earth.”
Since Mormons are pretty well integrated into American society, I don't think there is going to be a major problem here. It isn't as if Romney is claiming that we need to sacrifice virgins every fortnight to stop the volcanoes from erupting or the Sun from rising.
As far as I'm concerned, if people want to reject Romney because of his religion, then they probably also want to reject Mormons from the US for not being American enough. There may be valid reasons to reject Romney, but religious beliefs are not one of them. It seems bizarre to me that anybody would argue that a country founded by the Pilgrims should exclude candidates for non-conformist religious beliefs.
“Don’t damn me, bro!”
I don’t know about you, but I would have a hard time voting for a Muslim, especially during these times.
We have probably had atheist and agnostic presidents, but they didn’t admit it and pretended to be Christians because they knew the electorate would never vote for an unbeliever. Of course, some of our presidents during the early republic may have been Deists.
It is true the US constitution prohibits a legal religious test for office, but that does not extend to the electorate. Any of us are free to vote on any basis we want, including religion, race, hair or eye color, or anything else.
Once, years ago, my mother and I were watching a political commercial on TV. I made a comment about the candidate, and she said, “I could never vote for him. Thin lips.”
well hillary is the wicked spawn of satan... and doesnt she claim to be a christian?
i find it hard to believe the candidates. seems like its the it thing to be religious.
The truth is a mighty powerful thing. Amen
Please aspire for better than avg morals:
33 percent of American adults say they would cheat the government by working under the table while receiving unemployment benefits.
25 percent admit they would cheat a restaurant that left items off a bill.
25 percent believe the use of illegal drugs by adults is acceptable.
16 percent say sex between unmarried adults is never wrong, and 49 percent more say it depends on the situation.
65 percent of Americans will excuse sex outside marriage.
Only 67 percent believe premarital sex among high school kids is always wrong.
Only 49 percent think homosexuality is wrong. A mere 14 percent say homosexuality is right, but 26 percent say it depends on the situation.
51 percent describe themselves as pro-choice, though only 8 percent believe abortion is morally right.
45 percent say divorce should be legal for any reason at any time.
Clarification: Jesus is NOT the brother of satan. Jesus is God. satan is a fallen angel. Period
get thee behind me satan, and do not push
I think this whole Huckabee-Romney thing got old before it started. Huckabee moved up in the polls and forced Romney into making a play and giving a speech. Romney was courting evangelical votes and for him now to turn and say it is wrong to ask questions about his faith, is insincere.
When you give a speech that basically says, “I believe relatively the same as you do”, well, expect some questions. I don’t bother myself to even weigh information about things like Huckabee asked of Romney. This is being made complicated when it is not. It all begins and ends with the prophets of any particular belief system. If Mohammed or Joseph Smith or L Ron Hubbard are telling the truth, that is the main point of consideration. If their prophecies are found lacking and false, then so too most likely are the respective dominations/religions connected to them. I have an opinion on all three, but that is for you to decide, not I.
This kind of publicity will NOT win the LDS Church any converts and will only hasten their ultimate demise. At some point, the LDS Church will have to denounce their "strange" doctrines or implode.
Its not a question of rejecting a candidate out of hand because of his or her faith. What I was asserting is that faith MATTERS. The people on this board who are saying “this has no bearing on a presidential election” are in effect saying that religion is of no consequence - a hobby was said at one point I believe. But that is not so. True religion permeates all of your life and outlook.
Now, I agree, a candidate should be judged on thir policies, principles, integrity and so on. I would rather elect a good man who was a Hindu than a bad one who happens to be Christian. But, policy, principles, integrity etc are shaped by personal beliefs, and religion (or indeed the lack of it) is pretty fundamental to that.
Having said that, I do believe in this instance Huckabee was just trying to stir up prejudice with his question. The exchange probably casts more doubts on his moral scruples than those of Mr Romney.
...and 73.6 percent of statistics are made up right on the spot!
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
They sought to stone Yeshua (Jesus) both times for blasphemy, for saying that He was indeed Yahweh (God) manifested in the flesh.
No, Satan is not "the brother" of Jesus, not even in spirit, as I understand the Bible. It's literally like comparing apples to oranges.
It could always be the other way round. Maybe the stories of Zeus/Promethus etc came about because of “mythologising” of the Biblical account. :)
Satan Jesus’ brother? What a stupid concept. Jesus is the Creator, not the creation of anybody. Satan can’t create squat.
Meanwhile, we who believe are joint-heirs with Christ, the inheritors of all things. By the grace of the Lord, we are the Sons of God. If anybody is Jesus’ brother, it’s a believer- not the enemy.
Now the story of Jesus 40 days in the wilderness is going to have to be updated...
“Hey don’t tempt me bro...”
I’d go along with that (and I’m a Christian!) It doesn’t mean that the biblical account is false - you just have to be discerning in how you interpret it.
I agree with you in so far as we ought not to test if someone is or is not religious, but there needs to be a process to determine if the held religious beliegs are treasonous or damaging to the potential security of the US.
The Satan & Jesus relationship issue is not likely, but what other held beliefs by Romney or any other candidate could be?
I totally agree , religion has no place in US politics and I wish people would stop making it a major issue.
carumba wrote: “If you are predicting or prophesying I have to say that Daniel, Nephi, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, etc prophesy that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints will continue to grow until the second coming. Time will tell.”
I agree. Without a doubt, the Mormons typically live very moral lives. As far as their Christianity goes, I’ll leave that to Christ. I personally believe Mormonism is a cult, but only Christ has authority to decide. I have none.
I do think the Mormons are treading on very thin ice if they are adding to and/or changing the Bible. That would be very foolish.
Real question is, did man originate on Kolob? LDS theology is a lot like science fiction.
Silly indeed. Soon enough we;ll vote according to who thinks how many angels can fit on the head of a pin.
It has no place in US politics.
One LDS hymn “If You Could Hie to Kolob” is probably the first science fiction hymn. The origins of man, the nature of God, are ponderable and learnable especially when you seek guidance, intelligence, inspiration, etc. from God himself.
sonic109 wrote: “I totally agree , religion has no place in US politics and I wish people would stop making it a major issue.”
Religion is very important to many voters. Why should they ignore something that is important to them when they are choosing candidates? Also, think about a Muslim president. Would you ignore his religion even though it conflicts with the freedoms we hold dear? Christianity compliments democracy. Islam opposes it. My point? Religion is one of many aspects that should be used to determine a candidate’s fitness for office. It shouldn’t be an overriding factor (the candidate’s track record and historical job performance is a better indicator), but it should be considered.
Thou sealest up the *sum*, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13. Thou has been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold; the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in the in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of GOD; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou was created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise thy have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned;
therefore I will cast thee as profaned out of the mountain Of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart (pride) was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness:
I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings,
that they may behold thee.
18 Thou has defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, buy the iniquity of thy traffick;
therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee,
and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of allll them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Satan, Lucifer, king of Tyre, king of Babylon, devil, destroyer, serpent, tree of the knowledge of good and evil, accuser, are just some of the names/types this entity has been allowed to play.
yep! this is just the kind of thing I want politicians talking about. I mean it’s not like they should be talking about reducing the federal government’s bloated beauracracy, cutting taxes, making government and politicians accountable or fixing social security. I’m just glad they’re spending time and energy on the important stuff-stuff that politicians are elected to do.
I’, speaking of Western religions being that we are a Western culture. I think any Easter religion may not jive with Western democracy. That being said I think making a candidate’s religion and religious DOGMA a main concern is huge mistake in US politics.
LOL!!! That's good! Then you won't have to be disappointed!
My goodness, are we now to vote for the Theologian in Chief? Or the best man for the job?
This is silly, and unbecoming in a pluralistic Republic.