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Colorado (Church) shooter was baptized into LDS faith
KSL News, Salt Lake City ^ | 12/13/07 | Sarah Dallof

Posted on 12/13/2007 11:44:15 AM PST by colorcountry

KSL News has learned the man who went on a shooting rampage at two Colorado church properties had been baptized into the LDS Church a year ago.

Matthew Murray killed four people and wounded several others Sunday, before he turned the gun on himself. He targeted people at two Christian churches, posting anti-religion messages online before the shootings. But a year ago, he welcomed religion in his life, according to one man who taught Murray about the Latter-day Saint faith.

A.J. Ormond was there the day Matthew Murray was baptized. He says he immediately noticed a change; Murray seemed happy, calm, at peace. It was a demeanor that changed dramatically in just a year.

"He seemed like a normal person, maybe a little sheltered." That's how A.J. Ormond remembers Matthew Murray, the man police say shot and killed two at a Youth with Mission Center in Arvada, then two sisters at a New Life Church in Colorado Springs 12 hours later.

Before the attacks, he posted hate-filled messages online like "You Christians brought this on yourselves," and "All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you... as I can."

"I think everybody goes through 'Is there anything I could have done? Anything?'", Ormond said.

Ormond met Murray in November 2006 in Colorado. Murray wanted to learn more about the LDS church. Ormond and his wife worked with the missionaries in their ward.

"I think he was interested in learning about all religions, trying to figure out what fit him and his beliefs and finding somewhere where he could fit in," Ormond said.

Ormond describes Murray as polite and friendly, a young man who, despite his family's protests, was seriously contemplating devoting his life to the LDS Church. Murray's experience with the LDS Church culminated with his baptism. Soon after, he stopped going to church; and just a little over a year later, Murray was dead from a self-inflicted gunshot to his head following a shootout with a security guard.

The photos of him splashed on TV were easily recognizable to Ormond; his motives, though, a mystery. Ormond said, "It was obvious that it wasn't the person we had known that had committed those shootings and those murders."

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released a statement saying, "We checked our records, and they confirm that Matthew Murray of Englewood, Colorado, was baptized about a year ago."

Beyond that, the church said it would have no comment.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: baptism; churchshooting; colorado; lds; ldschurch; mormon; murray; newlifechurch
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1 posted on 12/13/2007 11:44:16 AM PST by colorcountry
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To: colorcountry

oh boy here we go


2 posted on 12/13/2007 11:45:50 AM PST by Squidpup ("Fight the Good Fight")
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To: colorcountry

This guy was terminally messed up, no way his behavior is a commentary on anything but his own soul.


3 posted on 12/13/2007 11:46:13 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim
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To: colorcountry
We don't need to badmouth the Mormons over this nut case.


4 posted on 12/13/2007 11:46:23 AM PST by darkwing104 (Lets get dangerous)
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To: colorcountry

What about diet or drugs?


5 posted on 12/13/2007 11:46:39 AM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: colorcountry
Murray seemed happy, calm, at peace. It was a demeanor that changed dramatically in just a year.

Unfortunately he was just as psycho after his conversion as he was the day before.
6 posted on 12/13/2007 11:46:58 AM PST by cripplecreek (Only one consistent conservative in this race and his name is Hunter.)
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To: colorcountry

Ok. So what?

This was an obviously sick and twisted kid- REGARDLESS of what he thought he believed.


7 posted on 12/13/2007 11:47:52 AM PST by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: colorcountry
I hear that he had also recently signed up for Disney's ToonTown...
8 posted on 12/13/2007 11:50:07 AM PST by Paradox (Politics: The art of convincing the populace that your delusions are superior to others.)
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To: colorcountry

Thanks for showing us that there was no cover-up.


9 posted on 12/13/2007 11:50:16 AM PST by fproy2222 (If you want to know the truth, study both sides. To the most original source.)
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To: SE Mom

I guess that Temple Recommend is on hold.


10 posted on 12/13/2007 11:50:52 AM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: colorcountry
Murray was messed up
by his parents. His own words
are sad and frightning:

----------------------------------------------
Murray's childhood seems to have been remembered by him in a fashion that reinforced his suicidal thought patterns. One thread Murray wrote about was of him being the "Prophetic Child."

"Prophetic Child"
Since I was at least age 6 my mother and her church friends have always told me about how my birth was "foretold." They say that while I was still in my mother's womb a "prophet" told my mother that I was to be, quote, "a prophet to the nations" and something along the lines of the next Billy Graham/Peter Wagner.

They said that the following verses applied to me: Mat. 12.18 and Ezk. 36:26-28

Basically, they believe that I am their "chosen one" for "the end times" and according to the Ezekial passage they believe that I am going to go back to their church/system.

The problem right now is the fact that it appears that they are always going to pursue me throughout life (and they have said so), as I am supposedly the "chosen one." As far as I can tell they did not treat the other youth the same way.

Well, I don't want to be their "chosen one" at all. I just wish I could find some way to wake up from this nightmare.

~ nghtmrchld26, 9/7/07 9:13 pm, on the Ex Pentecostal Forums - Message Board - ezboard.com.
[quoted at Copycat Effect -- Church Shooter: Prophetic Child ]

11 posted on 12/13/2007 11:51:05 AM PST by theFIRMbss
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To: theFIRMbss

That is sad.


12 posted on 12/13/2007 11:52:56 AM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: colorcountry

Bet he endorsed Mitt. He musta loved Mitt’s support for gun control — more easy targets.


13 posted on 12/13/2007 11:53:10 AM PST by JohnnyZ (victim victim Mitt victim victim Romneyvictim victim victim so persecuted, poor me!)
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To: colorcountry

This is a MSM dig against a certain Pres candidate... read between the lines here!


14 posted on 12/13/2007 11:53:33 AM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: colorcountry

Another way to make the Mormon’s look bad? This guy had problems that, probably, no one could help.


15 posted on 12/13/2007 11:55:15 AM PST by RC2
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To: colorcountry

I was reading some of the forums postings from this kid yesterday. He posted on an ex Pentecostal site. Appeared to be a very disturbed young man.


16 posted on 12/13/2007 11:56:16 AM PST by sweet_diane (Adoption, the beautiful alternative.)
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To: MD_Willington_1976

Hardly. KSL is owned by the LDS Church.


17 posted on 12/13/2007 11:57:46 AM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: AppyPappy

The scratchy sacred underwear drove him to it.


18 posted on 12/13/2007 11:59:44 AM PST by -=SoylentSquirrel=- (I'm really made of people!)
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To: theFIRMbss

I wonder how much of this is true.

I don’t doubt that his parents were committed Christians with great hopes for their kids. But they thought he was some kind of promised Messiah? Maybe so, maybe no.

There doesn’t seem to be much doubt that his failures in religion bugged him, but ultimately the responsibility was his own, I think.

The same with this Mormon angle. It’s part of the same effort to belong, coupled with a failure to belong, that was disappointed when he wasn’t chosen for the missionary deal. He tries, he fails, and he blames others, including the victims he shot.


19 posted on 12/13/2007 11:59:53 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: colorcountry

Better for the LDS to go ahead and put the info out there, IMHO. Mitt isn’t my man, yet this shouldn’t be twisted as a dig to him.


20 posted on 12/13/2007 11:59:59 AM PST by sweet_diane (Adoption, the beautiful alternative.)
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To: AppyPappy
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released a statement saying, "We checked our records, and they confirm that Matthew Murray of Englewood, Colorado, was baptized about a year ago."

The question would be: did Matthew actually attend the secret ceremony in person?

21 posted on 12/13/2007 12:00:03 PM PST by donna (...gay couples raising kids. That's the American way... -Mitt Romney)
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To: colorcountry

He was pyschotic and alienated from his Evangelical Protestant Christianity and decided to make a statement by becoming Mormon. The fact that he (allegedly) showed up with a beard and skullcap makes me think he may have been considering Islam, too. I think he was simply looking for something that would make his rejection of orthodox Christianity clear, and chose Mormonism because it was convenient and easy to do.

Basically, however, he was psychotic. Many of the Muslim converts who have killed people here have also been psychotic. However, they kill in the name of Islam, and this guy was not killing in the name of Mormonism.


22 posted on 12/13/2007 12:00:53 PM PST by livius
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To: livius

He was a nut. No other word for it. He just focused on churches than than a day care or school. He probably became a Mormon because Pentacostals have traditionally had a disdain for Mormons although that is changing in the new Emerging Church model.


23 posted on 12/13/2007 12:03:54 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: sweet_diane

You’re right. It has nothing to do with Romney.


24 posted on 12/13/2007 12:05:42 PM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: livius

The guy was a TROP convert, just about guarantee it.


25 posted on 12/13/2007 12:08:39 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: colorcountry
A few days ago, the MSM were dancing with joy when they discovered the troubled young man's parents were "deeply religious."

The MSM's eyes began to roll inside their head when they learned the shooter attended a Pentecostal church as a youth and was home schooled.

Then, the MSM began foaming at the mouth when they discovered a sibling attending Oral Roberts University.

Now the MSM are convulsing over this man's conversion to Mormonism.

Obviously, the troubled mind was in search of something, and had found nothing. He is to be pitied. As is the MSM.

26 posted on 12/13/2007 12:10:29 PM PST by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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To: pissant

What is a TROP convert?


27 posted on 12/13/2007 12:13:54 PM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: colorcountry

Christian, Jewish and Morman beliefs do not support what this kid did. It is clear that he was a troubled kid. It is clear that he went off the deep end and did something nobody supports.

Millions of young kids attend church and temple services each week. Very few of them wind up committing this type of act.

It is unfortuante that this kid whacked out, but it no more a condemnation on religion, than it would be if he were a member of the democrat party.


28 posted on 12/13/2007 12:13:58 PM PST by DoughtyOne (California, where the death penalty is reserved for wholesome values. SB 777)
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To: theFIRMbss

If it is true (what Matthew Murray wrote), then his parents were abusive toward him from the get go and it is no wonder he turned out the way he did.

If it is not true - if what he wrote was simply the sick output of a twisted mind with no basis in fact, it just further speaks to his inability to come to terms with reality and is just another part in the larger tragedy.

I pray that it is the second option, not the first.


29 posted on 12/13/2007 12:14:07 PM PST by mountainbunny
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To: Greg F

the religion of peace


30 posted on 12/13/2007 12:16:40 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: pissant

I thought so, too, after I read the description of his outfit. But so far it doesn’t seem that any hard evidence has appeared.

Islam is so bizarre that it attracts the mentally ill or losers with an imagined grudge against society. It makes them feel powerful and makes them feel that their grudge is somehow affirmed and gives them the right to attack. I think Mormonism, in its early days, may once have done so, but I don’t think it does so anymore.

If he was Muslim or regarded himself as Muslim, I doubt that we’ll ever know about it. In any case, I think Mormonism was just a step on his journey away from the Christianity of his youth (and pre-psychotic days).


31 posted on 12/13/2007 12:17:11 PM PST by livius
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To: theFIRMbss
Since I was at least age 6 my mother and her church friends have always told me about how my birth was "foretold." They say that while I was still in my mother's womb a "prophet" told my mother that I was to be, quote, "a prophet to the nations" and something along the lines of the next Billy Graham/Peter Wagner.

Things like this WILL screw you up!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Sr.

 

 

 

Smith showed little interest in religion and was content to allow his wife control over the religious upbringing of their children. This indifference bothered Lucy very much. After much prayer, she said she had received a divine witness that her husband would some day accept "the pure and undefiled Gospel of the Son of God." (Smith, 56)

Smith professed that he had visionary dreams with highly symbolic content, obviously related to his ambivalence about religious faith and sometimes presaging events to come. These dreams continued after the family's move to Palmyra, New York, until he had had seven in all; Lucy remembered five well enough to quote in detail. (Smith)

[edit] Book of Mormon

In the late 1820s, Smith's son, Joseph Jr., began to tell the family about Golden Plates, which he said contained a record of the ancient inhabitants of the Americas. In September 1827, Joseph Jr. said he obtained the plates, which Joseph Sr. testified he felt and lifted while wrapped in cloth. In the following years, Joseph Jr. claimed to translate the plates into English through the use of the Urim and Thummim, a sacred device given to him by an angel of God. When the work was near completion, at the end of June 1829, Joseph Sr., and seven other men signed a joint statement, testifying that they had both lifted the plates and seen the engravings on the plates. Known as the "Testimony of the Eight Witnesses", this statement was published with the first edition of the Book of Mormon and has been a part of nearly all subsequent editions.

32 posted on 12/13/2007 12:17:19 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: colorcountry
KSL News has learned the man who went on a shooting rampage at two Colorado church properties had been baptized into the LDS Church a year ago.

IOW, he truly was out of touch with reality.
33 posted on 12/13/2007 12:18:24 PM PST by aruanan
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To: Zakeet

As I already posted, this news item was from the LDS owned KSL in Salt Lake City.

It is truly sad and frightening.


34 posted on 12/13/2007 12:18:36 PM PST by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: colorcountry

The obvious attempt by this rag to link Mormons (aka Romney) via innuedo to this deranged persons shooting spree is just another example of the depths to which liberals will stoop.


35 posted on 12/13/2007 12:18:43 PM PST by technomage (The true Conservative politician will beat a Demotraitor every time.)
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To: livius

If he had a Koran in his car, or was on jihadi websites, we’ll likely never be told.


36 posted on 12/13/2007 12:18:47 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: donna

I assume the “secret ceremony” you refer to is the baptism. If this is the case be advised that LDS baptisms outside the temple are open to both members and non-members. The only criterion I know of is that normally one is invited to attend by the person receiving the ordinance.


37 posted on 12/13/2007 12:19:11 PM PST by scory
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To: donna
The question would be: did Matthew actually attend the secret ceremony in person?

It really doesn't matter, as he is DEAD now and no doubt some LDS faithful WILL be baptised FOR him in one of their Temple Rites® - 'Baptism for the Dead'.

38 posted on 12/13/2007 12:19:39 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: theFIRMbss

It’s amazing what burdens parents will dump on their kids. I used to have a neighbor who was convinced her older daughter was the reincarnation of her dead best friend from high school. Kid was only 4 and already knew she was carrying that.


39 posted on 12/13/2007 12:19:55 PM PST by Hoffer Rand
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To: darkwing104

‘We don’t need to badmouth the Mormons over this nut case.’

We have to stop this nonsense. I expect liberals to attack a person’s religion, if he or she isn’t a Muslim that is.

I’m sick of seeing it in this forum. Makes us all look like backward bigots.


40 posted on 12/13/2007 12:20:04 PM PST by Badeye (Free Willie!)
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To: JohnnyZ

In fact I think that his endorsement of Mitt was somehwere in his hate filled rants where he talks about killing “christians.”


41 posted on 12/13/2007 12:21:28 PM PST by killermedic ("Est Sularus uth Mithas")
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To: killermedic

forgot my sarc tag


42 posted on 12/13/2007 12:23:31 PM PST by killermedic ("Est Sularus uth Mithas")
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To: pissant

Absolutely. I think that’s one of the reasons there was dead silence about him, even though he had obviously been identified almost immediately.

It’s possible that he wasn’t a Muslim, and again, I’m basing the “Muslim” identification solely on what he was supposedly wearing. But I think that if he considered himself a Muslim and was expressing his hatred of Christianity through this, whether or not he was going to a mosque, it would be kept a deep dark secret by the government and the media.


43 posted on 12/13/2007 12:24:33 PM PST by livius
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To: Badeye

We have had too many Islam-instigated attacks on us to regard this as a simply philosophical matter, and aying that people here are bigots is ridiculous. If Islam left me alone, I’d leave it alone. But it never does.

Mormons have not attacked other Americans (recently, although they used to do so). I don’t think they would, or at any rate, the mainstream Mormons would not, and I think the fact that he was Mormon was interesting but did not motivate him to do what he did.

He was psychotic, but psychotics often look for a greater “cause” to which they can ally themselves and feel more justified.


44 posted on 12/13/2007 12:27:57 PM PST by livius
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To: Elsie

It’s what’s wrong with a lot of religions that focus on the individual and their great worth or potential. I’ve seen and known a lot of Pentecostals that put emphasis on the individual’s abilities, almost encouraging them that they’re superhuman. Speaking in tongues, gifts of prophecy, etc. I’ve seen how it can feed the ego, and have parents put undue pressure on children to perform. Telling your kid he’s destined to be a prophet despite the fact that there have been no successful prophets since the days of the Apostles? What does that do to a kid at the age of 6?

Christianity, as I know it to be, teaches sacrifice, humility, meekness, forgiveness, thankfulness and grace. Above all, it teaches that our strength comes from Christ, not from ourselves; and all that we have is given to us by the Father to be used in good stewardship - and never taken advantage of.


45 posted on 12/13/2007 12:29:34 PM PST by ItsOurTimeNow (Rock of Ages, cleft for me - let me hide myself in Thee.)
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To: technomage
An earlier article on this page mentioned the Nebraska mall shooter. I don’t know nor do I care what that sick boy’s religious leanings were, I do know that he caused so much heartache and left a note saying he was going to be famous.
Just over a week now and I sure don’t recall his name.

The Mormon bashers here should learn to mind their own business.

46 posted on 12/13/2007 12:30:18 PM PST by ishabibble (ALL-AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: Elsie

“It really doesn’t matter, as he is DEAD now and no doubt some LDS faithful WILL be baptised FOR him in one of their Temple Rites® - ‘Baptism for the Dead’.”

Elsie—You’re slipping in your understanding of the Mormon teachings. He was already baptized while living. Why would he need to be baptized again, after his death?


47 posted on 12/13/2007 12:31:58 PM PST by IWONDR
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To: Elsie

Elsie: You sure like Mormons. Have a chip on your shoulder or something?


48 posted on 12/13/2007 12:33:39 PM PST by Count of Monte Logan
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To: pissant

“If he had a Koran in his car, or was on jihadi websites, we’ll likely never be told.”

Crybaby nonsense.


49 posted on 12/13/2007 12:34:36 PM PST by BunkDetector
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To: colorcountry

Matthew Murray in 1998, pictured with his niece, in a photo released by his parents on Dec. 13, 2007.

More information on the shooter here.

Among other highlights

A family spokesman said Murray grew up in a loving home. But other interviews and what appear to be Murray’s own online ramblings portray a disturbed individual who resented his sheltered upbringing, had problems with his mother, heard voices in his head, felt rejected and abused — and yet appeared to be searching for a place to belong.

Murray sought refuge in everything from an online forum for recovering Pentecostals to an occult group.

Murray made postings to a site called Independent Spirits, a gathering place for those affected by a strict Christian home schooling curriculum.

Murray was painfully shy and had trouble socializing after growing up sheltered. Later, he exhibited extreme mood swings, spreading rumors about homosexuality at the YWAM center and performing dark rock songs by Marilyn Manson and Linkin Park.

After Murray rejected religion, he became fixated on people and groups that explore the dark side of spirituality, obsessing over the satanic lyrics of Swedish metal bands, for instance.

Murray attended events held by the Denver-based occult group Ad Astra Oasis during the last two years, but was turned down when he sought to become a member of the group.

Matthew Murray: A sick, tortured mind.
50 posted on 12/13/2007 12:37:05 PM PST by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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