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Global warming pact set for 2009 after US backs down (Pres Bush caves to PC crowd again)
AFP ^ | December 15, 2007

Posted on 12/15/2007 9:22:53 AM PST by TheEaglehasLanded

NUSA DUA, Indonesia (AFP) — World climate negotiators set a 2009 deadline Saturday for a landmark treaty to fight global warming after two weeks of intense haggling led to a climbdown by an isolated United States.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, who flew to the Indonesian island of Bali for a late appeal for flexibility, praised the deal as a "pivotal first step" to confront climate change, "the defining challenge of our time."

Following gruelling all-night talks, the conference of 190 nations finally launched a process to negotiate a new treaty for when the UN Kyoto Protocol's commitments expire in 2012.

It comes after a year of stark warnings from Nobel-winning scientists, who say millions of people will be at risk of hunger, homelessness and disease by 2100 if temperatures keep rising at current rates.

The United States, the only major industrialised nation to reject the Kyoto treaty, reached a compromise with the European Union to avoid mentioning any figures as a target for slashing greenhouse gas emissions.

The deal instead only makes an indirect reference to scientists' warnings that the world must sharply cut back its emissions to prevent what could be a catastrophic rise in temperatures.

But after the summit went into an unscheduled 13th day of talks, the United States said it would not accept the statement as it wanted developing countries such as fast-growing China to make tougher commitments.

The senior US negotiator, Paula Dobriansky, said she had heard "many strong statements from many major developing country leaders on a greater role in helping to address urgently this global problem."

It "doesn't seem it's going to be reflected in our outcome here in the declaration," she said, explaining why the United States would reject the draft.

Dobriansky was loudly booed by other delegations, and a US environmental activist representing Papua New Guinea said to rousing cheers: "If you're not willing to lead, please get out of the way."

After repeated verbal lashings, Dobriansky again took the microphone and said that Washington would "go forward and join consensus," to the cheers of the conference.

German Environment Minister Sigmar Gabriel, a strong critic of US President George W. Bush's climate policy, said he was ready to ask through his mobile telephone for Chancellor Angela Merkel to intervene with the White House.

"I had already typed the SMS after Dobriansky's first statement but then I was able to cancel it," Gabriel said.

"In the end, nobody wanted to have a failure," including the United States, Gabriel said.

"We have achieved more than we could have expected previously, but it is less than what is needed to meet the urgency of the problem."

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown called the agreement "a vital step forward for the whole world". He added: "I am delighted that after two weeks of intensive talks the world's nations have agreed on a Roadmap to achieving a new global framework for tackling climate change. The Bali Roadmap is just the first step."

And German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the Roadmap "opens the way to real negotiations on effective measures to protect the climate, and for binding targets" on reducing CO2 emissions.

"Of course, the road to an agreement to succeed Kyoto is still paved with obstacles," she said, adding that she was "convinced" that Bali will bring real progress.

"The joint stance of the Europeans was an important foundation for this good result. Without it, success at Bali would not have been possible."

The agreement came after extraordinary scenes in which UN chief Ban jetted in for a last-ditch appeal, the UN's exhausted climate chief nearly broke down in tears and conference chair Indonesia apologised for a disastrous procedural mix-up.

"What we witnessed today was an incredible drama," said Alden Meyer of the US-based Union of Concerned Scientists.

"I've been following these negotiations for 20 years and I've never seen anything like it."

Yvo de Boer, head of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, said the deal showed global commitment and broke down the divide between countries with Kyoto obligations and those without.

"In that sense, what we're seeing disappear here today is what I would call the Berlin Wall of climate change," he said.

Hans Verolme of conservation group WWF accused the world of bowing to US pressure and removing a scientific punch needed to fight global warming.

But he also said the Bali talks would inspire environmentalists and activist nations until the end of Bush's mandate in January 2009.

"We have learned a historic lesson. If you expose to the world the dealings of the United States, they will ultimately back down."

Bush has argued that Kyoto is unfair as it does not require fast-growing emerging economies such as China, the second largest emitter after the United States, to meet targeted emissions curbs.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agw; bali; bdsyetnocure; bushadministration; caves; dobriansky; globalwarming; goebbelswarming
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If you expose to the world the dealings of the United States, they will ultimately back down."

Bush and his Administration will cave when pressured or booed, that's been the problem since 2001. It looked like he was starting to stand up this year, but it was too good to last

1 posted on 12/15/2007 9:22:54 AM PST by TheEaglehasLanded
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
The negotiations will begin only after the American elections next year. There's no guarantee they'll go anywhere.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

2 posted on 12/15/2007 9:25:34 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

“Global warming” hoax BUMP!

(Remember, it is a mistake to believe ANYTHING published by AFP.)


3 posted on 12/15/2007 9:27:21 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Bush passed the buck on this one. Not surprised.


4 posted on 12/15/2007 9:27:30 AM PST by MaestroLC ("Let him who wants peace prepare for war."--Vegetius, A.D. Fourth Century)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
Dobriansky was loudly booed by other delegations, and a US environmental activist representing Papua New Guinea said to rousing cheers: "If you're not willing to lead, please get out of the way."

After repeated verbal lashings, Dobriansky again took the microphone and said that Washington would "go forward and join consensus," to the cheers of the conference.

The United States is changing its stated policies based on some boos and jeers from a crowd?

I wish we could have sent a representative with some spine.

5 posted on 12/15/2007 9:27:51 AM PST by snowsislander
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To: goldstategop

Why even give them anything, this is President Bush’s problem. When he has victory he gives part or all of it away because. He could have been a much better President if not for this we have to compromise b.s.


6 posted on 12/15/2007 9:28:34 AM PST by TheEaglehasLanded
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To: snowsislander

The explosion of greenhouse emissions in China, India and other developing countries potentially could negate cutbacks in the developed world.”
_______________
We’ll end up footing the bill, as we always do.
Gutless leaders.


7 posted on 12/15/2007 9:29:22 AM PST by cowdog77 (" Are there any brave men left in Washington, or are they all cowards?")
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
Environmental Terrorism
8 posted on 12/15/2007 9:31:03 AM PST by KTM rider (..dumb or dumber in 08 ....choose one)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

He did not back down at all, he simply told them deal with it when he is not President anymore. In fact all his years in office he never submitted to any treaty regarding global warming.


9 posted on 12/15/2007 9:32:12 AM PST by jveritas (God bless our brave troops and President Bush)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Yep — Bush has been courageous on WoT but that’s it for some reason. On other issues he has been a political coward OR has bought into the koolaid - take your pick.


10 posted on 12/15/2007 9:32:19 AM PST by plain talk
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To: All

Bush the Nutty Globalist backs down again.

Hopefully the next President will have more pro-America values


11 posted on 12/15/2007 9:32:58 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Mike Huckabee values illegals, criminals, and terrorists...Thanks "Values Voters")
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To: TheEaglehasLanded; All

Excuse me .. I didn’t see BUSH at the conference - and it’s the liberal state dept who has caved .. not Bush.

It’s not the first time this state dept has gone contrary to the President’s stated policy.

Has everybody had enough of Condi’s policies now ..??


12 posted on 12/15/2007 9:34:57 AM PST by CyberAnt (AMERICA: THE GREATEST FORCE for good in the world!)
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To: goldstategop
The negotiations will begin only after the American elections next year. There's no guarantee they'll go anywhere.

If one of the Democrats or Rudy, Romney, Huckabee, or McCain is elected President, we'll have a global suicide pact in no time.

13 posted on 12/15/2007 9:35:18 AM PST by JohnnyZ (victim victim Mitt victim victim Romneyvictim victim victim so persecuted, poor me!)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

You would think at least one person could go to that conference and challenge the very notion of man-made global warming and the premise itself that we need to do anything at all. Where is the antidote to Al Gore? Where is this person?


14 posted on 12/15/2007 9:36:08 AM PST by plain talk
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
Bush has tried and failed to mollify leftists in Massachusetts and now he tries and will fail to mollify leftists in Bali.


15 posted on 12/15/2007 9:37:07 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: plain talk

Michael Crichton has been vocal, but he obviously doesn’t get the same amount of press.


16 posted on 12/15/2007 9:37:13 AM PST by JohnnyZ (victim victim Mitt victim victim Romneyvictim victim victim so persecuted, poor me!)
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To: plain talk

I don’t agree on the WoT. When history is written and Iran and AQ have the bomb, it will be said that Bush caved there too. It’s happening before our eyes and there is precious little we can do about it.


17 posted on 12/15/2007 9:38:00 AM PST by Stunned
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To: JohnnyZ
Any treaty will have to pass the US Senate. Remember the League of Nations (and the Koyoto protocol).
18 posted on 12/15/2007 9:39:01 AM PST by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
Meanwhile....

US slams "massive" UN budget rise, urges cost cuts

19 posted on 12/15/2007 9:41:08 AM PST by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Did anybody even READ the article? It has got JACK to do with Bush and basically the U.S. committed to NOTHING.

Good Lord, take your conspiratorial, nonsensical rantings back to DU where they belong.

The brainpower and reading comprehension on this forum is all but gone. It would be laughable if it weren’t so freakin sad.


20 posted on 12/15/2007 9:42:06 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
The United States, the only major industrialised nation to reject the Kyoto treaty

If Australia does not count as a major industrialized nation, then I guess the U.S. is the only major industrialized nation.

21 posted on 12/15/2007 9:43:38 AM PST by Smile-n-Win (Everything that breathes emits CO2. Anti-carbon is anti-life.)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Apparently AlGore doesn’t HAVE to sit in the oval office...


22 posted on 12/15/2007 9:45:11 AM PST by Libertina
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

ANd don’t even get me started on the fact that is is an AFP article. I didn’t realize that chopped up quotes and innuendo from notoriously slanted organizations were swallowed as fact on FR. You people are a propagandist’s dream. “Sheeple”, indeed.


23 posted on 12/15/2007 9:45:25 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

Nah I don’t see any real caving here or maybe I missed it. This really crappy article focussed on lots of emotion and then they act like finally they defeated the big bad USA enviro-monster but what the hell did they agree to do? Meet again later? Did I miss something other than a lot of anti-USA crowing about exactly what?


24 posted on 12/15/2007 9:45:56 AM PST by rhombus
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
Following gruelling all-night talks, the conference of 190 nations finally launched a process to negotiate a new treaty for when the UN Kyoto Protocol’s commitments expire in 2012.

Agreeing to a process for future negotiations is NOT caving in...the USA still has not endorsed Kyoto...the caving in will be by the next president(any Rat and the republicans who raise hands).
25 posted on 12/15/2007 9:46:57 AM PST by crazyhorse691 (The faithful will keep their heads down, their powder dry and hammer at the enemies flanks.)
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To: plain talk
You would think at least one person could go to that conference and challenge the very notion of man-made global warming and the premise itself that we need to do anything at all. Where is the antidote to Al Gore? Where is this person?

Well, 100 prominent scientists (and the list includes some very distinguished people) co-signed this excellent letter published on December 12th:

Dear Mr. Secretary-General,

Re: UN climate conference taking the World in entirely the wrong direction

It is not possible to stop climate change, a natural phenomenon that has affected humanity through the ages. Geological, archaeological, oral and written histories all attest to the dramatic challenges posed to past societies from unanticipated changes in temperature, precipitation, winds and other climatic variables. We therefore need to equip nations to become resilient to the full range of these natural phenomena by promoting economic growth and wealth generation.

The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has issued increasingly alarming conclusions about the climatic influences of human-produced carbon dioxide (CO2), a non-polluting gas that is essential to plant photosynthesis. While we understand the evidence that has led them to view CO2 emissions as harmful, the IPCC's conclusions are quite inadequate as justification for implementing policies that will markedly diminish future prosperity. In particular, it is not established that it is possible to significantly alter global climate through cuts in human greenhouse gas emissions. On top of which, because attempts to cut emissions will slow development, the current UN approach of CO2 reduction is likely to increase human suffering from future climate change rather than to decrease it.

The IPCC Summaries for Policy Makers are the most widely read IPCC reports amongst politicians and non-scientists and are the basis for most climate change policy formulation. Yet these Summaries are prepared by a relatively small core writing team with the final drafts approved line-by-line by ­government ­representatives. The great ­majority of IPCC contributors and ­reviewers, and the tens of thousands of other scientists who are qualified to comment on these matters, are not involved in the preparation of these documents. The summaries therefore cannot properly be represented as a consensus view among experts.

Contrary to the impression left by the IPCC Summary reports:

  • Recent observations of phenomena such as glacial retreats, sea-level rise and the migration of temperature-sensitive species are not evidence for abnormal climate change, for none of these changes has been shown to lie outside the bounds of known natural variability.
  • The average rate of warming of 0.1 to 0. 2 degrees Celsius per decade recorded by satellites during the late 20th century falls within known natural rates of warming and cooling over the last 10,000 years.
  • Leading scientists, including some senior IPCC representatives, acknowledge that today's computer models cannot predict climate. Consistent with this, and despite computer projections of temperature rises, there has been no net global warming since 1998. That the current temperature plateau follows a late 20th-century period of warming is consistent with the continuation today of natural multi-decadal or millennial climate cycling.

In stark contrast to the often repeated assertion that the science of climate change is "settled," significant new peer-reviewed research has cast even more doubt on the hypothesis of dangerous human-caused global warming. But because IPCC working groups were generally instructed (see http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/docs/wg1_timetable_2006-08-14.pdf) to consider work published only through May, 2005, these important findings are not included in their reports; i.e., the IPCC assessment reports are already materially outdated.

The UN climate conference in Bali has been planned to take the world along a path of severe CO2 restrictions, ignoring the lessons apparent from the failure of the Kyoto Protocol, the chaotic nature of the European CO2 trading market, and the ineffectiveness of other costly initiatives to curb greenhouse gas emissions. Balanced cost/benefit analyses provide no support for the introduction of global measures to cap and reduce energy consumption for the purpose of restricting CO2 emissions. Furthermore, it is irrational to apply the "precautionary principle" because many scientists recognize that both climatic coolings and warmings are realistic possibilities over the medium-term future.

The current UN focus on "fighting climate change," as illustrated in the Nov. 27 UN Development Programme's Human Development Report, is distracting governments from adapting to the threat of inevitable natural climate changes, whatever forms they may take. National and international planning for such changes is needed, with a focus on helping our most vulnerable citizens adapt to conditions that lie ahead. Attempts to prevent global climate change from occurring are ultimately futile, and constitute a tragic misallocation of resources that would be better spent on humanity's real and pressing problems.

Yours faithfully,

[ list of 100 signatories and their affiliations ]


26 posted on 12/15/2007 9:46:59 AM PST by snowsislander
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To: goldstategop

LOL...we’ll not allow any stupid group of morons dictate suicide for America...just find and watch...


27 posted on 12/15/2007 9:47:10 AM PST by shield (A wise man's heart is at his RIGHT hand;but a fool's heart at his LEFT. Ecc 10:2)
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To: cowdog77

You are correct, Americans will foot the bill. The UN wants to tax us on carbon offsets I heard, what a bunch of bs. Grrr.


28 posted on 12/15/2007 9:49:50 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul. WWPD (what would Patton do))
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To: ScaniaBoy
Any treaty will have to pass the US Senate.

You don't think there are 60 liberals in the US Senate?

29 posted on 12/15/2007 9:54:12 AM PST by JohnnyZ (victim victim Mitt victim victim Romneyvictim victim victim so persecuted, poor me!)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
Bush and his Administration will cave when pressured or booed, that's been the problem since 2001. It looked like he was starting to stand up this year, but it was too good to last

That has been a big problem. Though on some subjects Bush can stand firm. And when you think about it, his tendency to cave under pressure has benefited conservatives a couple of times, too. You would think that would lead to being liked by the opposition for your waffling. Reality is, they respect you less afterward. It's like the guy who pressures his date to have sex, she caves and then he has no respect for her at all.

More and more I'm convinced that big political issues are best won by the political opposition. Find a weak one on the other team and go for it. The reason is, his own team can't fully attack him and so the battle is much more easily won because the entire opposiiton is weakened.

30 posted on 12/15/2007 9:54:47 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: L98Fiero
Agree 100%. By the way the “freepers” who fall for the media crap are the same “freepers” who accuse the American people of being a “sheeple” and brainwashed by the media. In fact the majority of the American voters have much less trust in the media than these “freepers”.
31 posted on 12/15/2007 9:56:45 AM PST by jveritas (God bless our brave troops and President Bush)
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To: JohnnyZ
You don't think there are 60 liberals in the US Senate?

Never! (Ok....../sarc).

However, the Senators will have to explain the rising costs of living etc etc to their voters. Nothing to concentrate ones mind like risking losing ones seat.

32 posted on 12/15/2007 9:59:47 AM PST by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: L98Fiero

Well, at least someone read the article.


33 posted on 12/15/2007 10:01:03 AM PST by saganite
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To: JohnnyZ
If one of the Democrats or Rudy, Romney, Huckabee, or McCain is elected President, we'll have a global suicide pact in no time.

I agree that there is a risk of that, but remember that in the late nineties the Senate voted down Kyoto 97-0 or something close to that. Right now, it has been politicized as a Bush attack. The reality is that politicians may not want their record to be based on their vote to collapse the US economy.

34 posted on 12/15/2007 10:08:12 AM PST by ilgipper
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To: Lancey Howard

The President has been acknowledging “global warming” for about 2 years now.


35 posted on 12/15/2007 10:10:33 AM PST by DemEater
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To: L98Fiero

Amen!


36 posted on 12/15/2007 10:12:07 AM PST by marlon
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To: DemEater

True and disappointing. That and the court ruling which allows the EPA to treat C02 as a pollutant - what a crock!


37 posted on 12/15/2007 10:16:54 AM PST by Thickman (Term limits are the answer.)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded
It looks a version of the "action plan" that we have agreed to is up on the U.N.'s Bali conference website (although I am not clear if it is the final version of the what they are terming the "roadmap") at Bali Action Plan.

Here's a finding that we agreed to that I found interesting:

Recognizing that deep cuts in global emissions will be required to achieve the ultimate objective of the Convention and emphasizing the urgency to address climate change as indicated in the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change,

Since the IPCC reporting process has been criticized by some very distinguished scientists, (for instance, see my posting #26 in this thread), I wish that we had not agreed to that particular sentence since it is in all likelihood untrue.

Also, it appears that we have agreed to some sort of permanent fund (the "Adaptation Fund") which is to be financed by the sale of carbon credits:

24. Decides that a trust fund shall be established under the management of the trustee, to be funded by the monetized share of proceeds of certified emission reductions, to meet the costs of adaptation and other sources of funding;

38 posted on 12/15/2007 10:19:06 AM PST by snowsislander
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To: L98Fiero

If they had read the article, they would have noticed that a contributing source has no credibility since he just a profession wrestler:

“Hans Verolme of conservation group WWF”

Since when does McMahon’s crowd know anything about climate change?

sarcasm/off


39 posted on 12/15/2007 10:20:39 AM PST by Thickman (Term limits are the answer.)
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To: JohnnyZ

Since it is a “treaty” teh Senate will need 67 liberals

Although there are probably enough liberals and fools to find the 67

Clinton never even tried to submit Kyoto to a vote because the Senate at that time would have killed it.

But w the Globalist Whoring nonsense....they probably would pass Bali...or even worse....implement its provisions thru Executive Order


40 posted on 12/15/2007 10:22:54 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Mike Huckabee values illegals, criminals, and terrorists...Thanks "Values Voters")
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To: snowsislander
Nothing has really been agreed to. What constitutes "deep cuts?" Who will pay into the permanent fund and at what level? All the Bali Conference did was kick the knottiest issues down the road.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

41 posted on 12/15/2007 10:23:07 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: TheEaglehasLanded

I’m going to start sleeping with my jock strap on.


42 posted on 12/15/2007 10:25:50 AM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: CyberAnt

I say this in the nicest way I can CyberAnt. Please ping me to the thread when it is reported Dobrianski has been fired by her disapproving boss, President Bush.


43 posted on 12/15/2007 10:27:19 AM PST by DoughtyOne (California, where the death penalty is reserved for wholesome values. SB 777)
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To: goldstategop

???????

Who do you suppose will be holding the pen come Jan 2009?

Radar?


44 posted on 12/15/2007 10:27:25 AM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: Smile-n-Win
If Australia does not count as a major industrialized nation, then I guess the U.S. is the only major industrialized nation.

China is also a major industrialized nation that is having none of this greenie weenie nonsense. The leftists excuse and ignore China for reasons of their own, but the fact that China has hundreds of millions of impoverished peasants in addition to its industry does not render China as anything other than a major industrialized nation.

45 posted on 12/15/2007 10:30:15 AM PST by rogue yam
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To: ScaniaBoy

Yep, and even most of the Dims won’t touch these treaties with a 10 foot pole ....


46 posted on 12/15/2007 10:31:50 AM PST by Neu Pragmatist (Your friendly resident drive-by poster , it's for a great cause ! Stop the RINO's - VOTE FRED !)
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To: jveritas
He did not back down at all, he simply told them deal with it when he is not President anymore. In fact all his years in office he never submitted to any treaty regarding global warming.

That was my take also.
We just kicked the alleged problem down the road.
In a couple of years Global Warming might be seen in a different light. - Tom

47 posted on 12/15/2007 10:33:35 AM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: xcamel

ping


48 posted on 12/15/2007 10:35:25 AM PST by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; The majority are satisfied with a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: goldstategop

at some point in time, we as a country are going to have to decide if we are (P)olitcally (C)ommunist, or FREE


49 posted on 12/15/2007 10:36:16 AM PST by sure_fine ( " not one to over kill the thought process " )
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To: cowdog77
When will the attack on middle America stop? We are already all sitting on balloons. I’m not giving away any more money to China. Let them pay for their own darn problems.

Let's see...we pay and fight with blood sweat and tears against fascists, we work and sweat to make a better life for our families, we give to hungry children across the globe. We pay for Medicare and Medicaid to help the guy down on his luck and now we have to help China as well to keep the world bankers afloat with their plans for a world government?

You know what...our government and business elitists are a bunch of out of touch spoiled brats. They don't know anymore from whence they came.

If they are not bright enough to figure out that the world socialists want us to become like China then I give up. Where the H@ll are the Americans?

50 posted on 12/15/2007 10:36:32 AM PST by Earthdweller (The elite media, buddies of Romney F Kerry and the socialist march to China.)
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