Posted on 12/16/2007 8:19:48 AM PST by blam
That would be the American Flavius Vegetius Renatus, around 375 AD. LOL
Why any Roman should be considered an authority on peace is beyond me.
That part of the tale is almost certainly buncomb. That there was an urban civilization in ancient Peru, on the other hand, is perfectly believable. It is even believable that there was more seagoing contact between old and new worlds than most historians think - 5000 years is an awful long time and lots happens in a stretch that long.
There is no "first" involved, however. There are urban civilizations in the near east back to the dawn of agriculture, 10000 years ago.
I’m not sure why the article considers 2,627 BC to be the world’s oldest urban civilization, since Sumer had many good-sized walled cities with massive temples by 5000 BC at the latest.
Keeley showed pretty conclusively that if the average death rate from primitive warfare in ancient and modern societies had been in effect during the century, the actual deaths from war in the 20th would have been at least 1B to 2B. 10 times as much.
Some primitive societies were far more violent than even this would indicate.
I admire and respect Ruth Shady for her lifetime of dedication and work, but my usual skepticism persists:
The search for the definitive history of civilized man will never end. There are too many unknowns. Many people don't realize that dinosaurs were not "known" until the 19th century.
What about the shoreline civilizations which are now under 300 of seas? How many might have disappeared permanently into subduction zones?
I do plan to read more about this lady's work. Sounds fascinating.
you bring up an interesting point here...a lot of these yaheys seem to assume that Earth’s geology has always taken place at the same rate that it currently does. How do we know that in the past continents did not drift more quickly? or how did those sea levels rise so much to engulf these cities off India without EEEEEEEEEVIL CO2 emissions from EEEEEEEEEEEVIL Western societies?
btt
Old Roman saying inscribed in tombs, meaning, if you wish peace, prepare for war. Used by Mussolini on many an occasion in his speeches.
Science doesn't ask or answer 'why' questions.
Perhaps because the Pax Romana lasted longer than any other similar period in history?
But that's just a wild stab in the dark guess from me.
Amazing how things change. I toured Mesa Verde as a child 50+ years ago and the guides said the Indians (they were called Indians then) moved into the cliff dwellings to protect themselves against their enemies.
Depends on your definitions. The Pax Romana is variously defined as lasting from 80 to about 200 years. Leaving aside the fact that such rather dramatic events as the Jewish War and Bar Kochba's rebellion occurred during this period, I'll go for the 200 year definition.
Similar periods of relative peace and prosperity are found for at least two Chinese dynasties, the Han and Tang, which controlled an equivalent stretch of territory and probably an even larger population and wealth.
I'll grant you that such periods have been darn rare in history.
My reference was more to the growth periods of the Roman Republic and Empire, during which they had at least one foreign war going almost continuously for many centuries. And of course, after 180 the history of the Empire is a constant succession of foreign and civil wars.
Frankly, I think the 80 year definition is more fair, as prior to this point the Empire had been expanding, although at a slower pace than under the Republic. Even during the true 2nd century Pax, Trajan fought major wars of expansionism against the Dacians and the Parthian Empire. The last 20 years of the Pax, under Marcus Aurelius, was taken up with major wars against Germania and Parthia, so I'm not even sure whether it should be included, which brings us down to about 60 years.
I realize the Pax Romana looked wonderful to people in the Dark Ages and its constant fighting, but it wasn't that long a stretch and it wasn't all that peaceful. If you define it as internal peace, the US has had it since 1815 (or 192 years), with the notable exception of that little sectional disagreement in the 1860s.
It was a good run but I expect that internal peace to shatter in the next 30 years.
Yup. Idiversity will prove to be our weakness.
Oh my, another book to add to my purchase list! Thanks for calling attention to this book By Schoch.
Buy this one first:
Book Description
This book completetly changes the established and conventional view of prehistory by relocating the Lost Edenthe world's first civilisationto Southeast Asia. At the end of the Ice Age, Southeast Asia formed a continent twice the size of India, which included Indochina, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Borneo. In Eden in the East, Stephen Oppenheimer puts forward the astonishing argument that here in southeast Asiarather than in Mesopotamia where it is usually placedwas the lost civilization that fertilized the Great cultures of the Middle East 6,000 years ago. He produces evidence from ethnography, archaeology, oceanography, creation stories, myths, linguistics, and DNA analysis to argue that this founding civilization was destroyed by a catastrophic flood, caused by a rapid rise in the sea level at the end of the last ice age.
What’s this ‘before’ ... you toss two feasts for the mind out and expect me to eschew one to buy the other? HAH! Now I have to buy both at the same bookstore visit. I mkae lists because I don’t go that often. At lats count—before you added more—I have seven books to find. Now I have nine and if you dare bring up any more ... well, just don’t name any Graham Hancock stuff with great photos from his lovely wife’s cameras.
I don’t read your post very well. Are you actually saying we haven’t had a war since 1815?
Indian Wars, Mexican American War very peaceful.
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