Skip to comments.Colorado Heroine May Have Been Legally Prevented from Using Beretta as Security Guard
Posted on 12/16/2007 10:43:41 AM PST by marktwain
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-—Last time I shot that one, a small fragment zipped through the tip of my left ear. -—
I would check the cylinder alignment and lockup on that one. A lot of times fragments are the result of shaving at the forcing cone and the fragments can either blow out the gap or the ports.
Wonder why this incident isn’t more in the news?
It’s only a week old.
Would the coverage be the same (ie, virutally nonexistent) if say, someone had opened fire on a “Gay Pride” parade?
I suspect it was material emitted from the port.
Just minutes ago I was searching for a list of acceptable ammo to feed my S&W 460 and I found a recall notice for the Performance Center 460XVR Hunter Magnum. I zipped down to my safe, recorded the serial number and determined that my revolver is one of those recalled. Yikes. Good thing I haven't shot more than one round of .454 through that one. The recall is due to barrel problems. I think that run of revolvers was touted as having German manufactured "rifle" barrels. Apparently there was a problem with the quality of the steel used.
the “-” number will be on the face of the cylinder (Where you load). My son has a 629-5.
Its only a week old.”
A private citizen, a woman with a ccw permit saves dozens of lives because she has her own, privately owned handgun with a possible “assault weapon” magazine, and credits God with guiding her.
What could liberals possibly find objectionable about that?
One of the funniest (and at the same time saddest) posts I've read in a long time.
Ammo shortage is a logistics issue that should be resolved before the firefight. However, you fight with what you have not what you want.
or just 1 from a 629. :)
What I find interesting is that the church felt it necessary to have security in the first place. I’m glad they did. Is that church located in a high crime area or did they receive threats, perhaps from the now dead shooter?
I haven’t been able to find anything that says that “licensed security guards” must carry revolvers. I looked for that before. In fact, I’m aware of MANY “licensed security officers” carrying semiautomatics. Granted the majority of them that I know personally are guarding Federal facilities, and most of the time such rules aren’t enforced against Federally hired guards (who by the way are CONTRACTORS, not “Federal officers”, so don’t get those two things confused).
There may be some local rules or something, but I’m not aware of any of those. In fact, my own BANK doesn’t even have armed guards.
then again, knowing some of them when I asked about “Why don’t they carry weapons?” to one of their bosses.... his response was “You know them, would YOU want THEM carrying guns?”
I have to say that in that context the answer was no, but that company has a habit of hiring anyone who can still walk, puts them in a security uniform and then tells them to “guard” something. They don’t even provide the people in uniform with a cell phone to call 911. Needless to say, those folks are no longer contractors where I work.
There is also an account that he was wearing some kind of flak vest as well. If that’s the case, probably wouldn’t have mattered what weapon she had, it would have taken more than one shot to the chest.
Found this in the news... but, you know it’s a buncha liberals that wrote it.
Colorado Springs may change gun rules for guards
Some say a well-armed young man’s attack on a church underscores the need to change a city ordinance so that security officers may carry semiautomatic weapons.
By DeeDee Correll, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 15, 2007
DENVER — In Colorado Springs, where a troubled young man brought an assault rifle, two semiautomatic handguns and 1,000 rounds of ammunition to a church, security guards aren’t allowed to carry anything more powerful than a revolver.
That could change early next year, when the city will consider a proposal to permit licensed security officers to carry semiautomatic weapons.
The proposed change doesn’t come in response to Sunday’s attack at New Life Church, where Matthew Murray, 24, shot five people before a volunteer guard stopped him with several shots. But some say the situation underscores the need for security officers to be as well-prepared as the criminals they may face.
“It’s just a common-sense issue. Do you want an old, outdated six-shooter up against a machine gun?” said John Pepe of Cheyenne Mountain Security, a private firm in Colorado Springs.
The existing ordinance dates back to the early 1980s, City Clerk Kathryn Young said. Though the ordinance itself does not specify what types of weapons a guard may carry, an attached policy spells out that guards may carry revolvers capable of holding as many as eight rounds of ammunition. The allowed revolvers, which can have 4- or 6-inch barrels, include .38s, .38 Specials and .357 magnums.
Young said that she wasn’t sure why city officials originally created the restriction, but that it wasn’t common for people to carry semiautomatics then.
The regulation applies only to those who work as paid contract security officers, city spokeswoman Sue Skiffington-Blumberg said.
She said the restriction on semiautomatic weapons did apply to volunteers such as Jeanne Assam, who was working at New Life Church during Sunday’s assault.
Assam returned fire with a Beretta 9-millimeter semiautomatic handgun, hitting Murray several times before he shot himself in the head.
A coalition of security firms has urged the city to change its position for a long time, Young said. About eight months ago, city officials began examining the policy, and they intend to propose changes in January.
Young said other Colorado cities had a variety of policies on the issue, with some restricting guards to revolvers and others allowing semiautomatic weapons.
The biggest disadvantage of a revolver is that it holds only five to seven rounds, whereas a semiautomatic can hold as many as 15, Pepe said. “If you’re in a line of fire, you want the best weapon possible,” he said.
Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which favors tighter firearms controls, said he saw the logic in allowing security officers to have the same firepower as a potential assailant. “We allow ordinary citizens to carry these things around. Why we do that, I don’t know. But if we’re going to allow that, we’re probably forcing the hand of security guards to do the same,” he said.
The real solution, he said, is for Congress to enact a new ban on assault weapons. “Then we wouldn’t have to have an arms race going,” he said.
While I can't speak for the church, I know that due to heightened security measures (especially after the Seattle shootings last year) every synagogue in Kansas City has armed guards (off-duty police officers) and tight security (parking passes and "tickets") to get into High Holy Day services.
I know what you mean. One of my dreams when I was younger was to attend Gunsite while Colonel Cooper was still there. While that dream is gone, Gunsite would still be a terrific learning experience, as would a much closer (to me) school, the Chapman Academy, outside of Columbia, MO.
We had some very interesting matches, including one that started with 5 minutes of strenuous calisthenics before beginning the course of fire. And often, these courses were "blind," where we had no idea what we were supposed to do, other than vague "rescue the bunny" instructions. Again, the idea was to introduce stress and uncertainty into a controlled match (there was a RSO that shadowed the shooter, ready to end the shooting if things got out of hand.
Had the article mentioned that IF Assam had been hired by the Church as a security guard she’d be restricted to a revolver, it would have been more accurate. She can be a security guard and carry a semi automatic as a private citizen while not on duty. In any event, it’s a stupid regulation. Speedloaders and a lot of practice will even the odds.
I suspect that you are in the brick masonry trade.... 8~)
Confucius say: “ 9 mm pistol is .45 set on ‘stun’”.....
Indeed ... if it really is against the rules, there are a lot of licensed security guards in violation of it.
I did not see ANYTHING in these requirements restricting guards to revolvers.
The only restriction is that licensed private security guards cannot carry CONCEALED weapons -- they have to be visible.
I posted a link to the CO Spgs rules above. There's NOTHING in 'em about revolvers-only.
Yeah, I saw it. There’s apparently something in the Colorado Springs ordinances though, based on what some of the downtown offices are saying. I haven’t had time to call the Clerk and Recorder on this today, perhaps this afternoon.
But, apparently the rules were written some years back, perhaps in the late 80s or so, and semiautomatics weren’t as prevalent I guess, from what some of the articles I read today said. (I don’t think that’s precisely the case, but my thinking is that they didn’t take into account the NEED for having a weapon with more bullets than the bad guys. Even though WE as citizens have discussed such things for YEARS — city councils are NOT known to be very “conservative” in particular OURS here in the Springs area)
See 166 above
Hm. OK ... so the ordnance is somewhere other than in the rules for security agencies? How ... odd. I can say that it is very widely ignored if there is a law agin’ it.
M. Firearms: It shall be unlawful for any private security officer to carry any firearm while performing security services without first obtaining a firearm endorsement from the City Clerk’s Office. It shall be unlawful to carry a concealed weapon while performing security services or exercising the privileges of licensure. (Ord. 98-71; Ord. 01-42)
That’s all I can find anywhere in the regulation. I’ll have to dig more in a few.
Yeah, that’s all I saw, too. The article says there’s an “attachment,” but it’s not in the posted rules.
Urban legend? Which part of the post I put up there is urban legend? Other than the fact the last line wants to put the onus on Congress to pass “tighter” assault weapon laws. LOL
I know “Dragonman” personally. He is wont to say odd things from time to time too, but I’ve never known him to say anything about anyone “only needing 5 or 6 bullets” or whatever that article quoted him as saying.
I shoot at his range, and bought two 9MM weapons at his place.
I think the ordinance was done to support moonlighting
Co Spgs Police Officers who could wear their service pistol
The “urban legend” reference was quoting me....
Ok... I think I’m tracking now.
Xenia says there is a law, and the rest of us say “Nope”.
So, there is not a regulation that *I* can find specific to carrying a revolver vs. a semiautomatic. There is a rule about carrying concealed.
That one I saw. There are some other ordinances listed I’ve not been able to find or go through yet, but I’m aware of many security guards who carry semiautomatic weapons, in uniform. Off duty, they carry concealed or not at all.
The article I posted in 166 I think you were talking about was from the LA Times, and who knows where they pulled their information from, but it apparently wasn’t all local here in Colorado Springs.
I’d say, given their penchant for taking the Leftist side of things, and specifically quoting the jerk from Brady, they are intent on pushing the “Let’s get Congress to ban big guns” line.
That article is anything but “equal time” or fair minded, by the way. And just because a news article says it, doesn’t MEAN it’s true.
Ok. Sorry. I hate it when threads have “one liners” lol.
It get’s confusing. Sorry for being confused.
Exactly how many raving gunman murderers have you stopped?
He could tell you, but then... you know... he’d have to keel ye.
I’m enjoying watching the liberal mainstream media stagger from theory to theory as to what type of story is best to discredit this woman who’s heroism saved dozens, if not a hundred or more, respectful worshippers.
When you read the ‘trail ballon’s’ its pretty funny, actually.
And oh so very revealing.
The problem is they can’t really fault this woman with anything, except of course...
1) Being a woman
2) going to church
3) carrying a GUN! (GASP)
4) Defending a bunch of people.. including MEN who didn’t stop the guy
5) Praising God for giving her the strength and a true aim.... (Double GASP)
6) Carrying a weapon capable of holding more than six rounds! (OMG! and GASP for good measure).
7) Finding some obscure, apparently NON-EXISTENT rule I can’t find to say, “Well, IF this... then THAT”... kind of crap.
So far, there’s nothing, not ONE thing legitimate about ANY news article I’ve read where they have tried to make her sound bad... that actually makes her sound ‘discredited’.
The MSM is dying, and they are loathe to understand this, and yet more and more failed social workers are turning to journalism.
All great points RD.
(hey, can we post on this thread? Does kellynla have Colorado ties?)
I found Mika on MSNBC’s ‘Morning Joe’ response to this story revealing. When it was noted that one person with a gun made a ‘difference’ her response was;
” no, no no no no....sigh’
Followed by ‘when do I get to have sex with Tiki Barber?’
(okay, that last part I’m just guessing after watching her put her hands all over him this morning...couldn’t keep her hands off him, I’m wondering if Tiki’s wife will ‘cut her’ if they every meet...)
The soldier is doing a pretty good job of controling his gun...
It’s a crying shame that armed guards need to be employed. Better if folks packed.
Unfortunately, I don't think that I'll be going to any of them, realistically. I'm just in too bad a shape. I hadn't gone shooting in quite a while, and when I did, I realized just how painful it was. I've got awful arthritus, and I'll probably need to have both my knees replaced within the next few years. Heck, walking is quite painful: Trying to shoot from a Weaver stance was agony. Of course, if and when I decide to begin carrying concealed, I'll just have to deal with the pain. There's no way in the world that I would carry without making sure that I'm as comfortable and practiced with my weapon as humanly possible.
"...and dat's da name of dat tune..."
I dunno about you Badeye, but *I* live in Colorado Springs, so I can post anything I want about it, and complain when news posted is incorrect too! :)
I’ve been to Colorado Springs once (1975) and have flown over the state numerous times!