Wept? Does anyone actually believe that?
Posted on 12/16/2007 8:53:36 PM PST by Tlaloc
Will the U.S. race for the president ever divorce itself from talk of dogma, faith and stripe of religion? Not anytime soon if the latest interview with GOP candidate Mitt Romney shows the mainstream media's fixation on the personal subject.
Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” today that he "wept with relief" when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints announced a 1978 revelation that the priesthood would no longer be denied to black people.
Romney's eyes glistened with tears as he discussed the subject during an appearance.
“I was anxious to see a change in my church,” said the Republican presidential candidate, on for the full hour.
“I can remember when I heard about the change being made. I was driving home from — I think it was law school, but I was driving home — going through the Fresh Pond rotary in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I heard it on the radio and I pulled over and literally wept.
“Even to this day, it’s emotional,” Romney added.
“And so it’s very deep and fundamental in my life and my most core beliefs that all people are children of God. My faith has always told me that. My faith has also always told me that in the eyes of God, every individual was merited the fullest degree of happiness in the hereafter and I had no question that African Americans and blacks generally would have every right and every benefit in the hereafter that anyone else had and that God is no respecter of persons.”
Host Tim Russert asked if “it was wrong for your faith to exclude them for as long as it did.”
“I told you exactly where I stand,” Romney said. “My view is that there’s no discrimination in the eyes of God. And I could not have been more pleased than to see the change that occurred.”
This was Romney’s first appearance on “Meet the Press” where he also discussed his radically altered views on abortion, immigration and defended continued charges of flip-flopping by all of his rivals.
The subject of Romney's "fees" raised when he was Massachusetts governor and the semantics of fees versus taxes were also discussed.
“These were not broad-based fees,” Romney said. “If they are broad-based, they have a sense — a feeling like a tax. A fee is different than a tax in that it is for a purpose. We had fees that hadn’t been changed for decades.”
Romney said former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who has passed him in many polls in the GOP presidential race, should apologize for his statement in Foreign Affairs magazine that the Bush administration has an “arrogant bunker mentality.”
“That’s an insult to the president, and Mike Huckabee should apologize to the president,” Romney said.
Russert hit Romney with a greatest hits of pre-conservative Romneyisms, videotape showing a string of flips in policy stances, but Romney countered with his usual answer to that very question.
“Tim, if you’re looking for someone who’s never changed any position on any policy, then I’m not your guy,” Romney said. “I do learn from experience. If you want someone who doesn’t learn from experience, who stubbornly takes a position on a particular act and says, ‘Well, I’m never changing my view based on what I’ve learned,’ that doesn’t make sense to me.”
Regarding his flip-flop on abortion rights from the time he was running for office in Massachusetts, Romney said he thinks “almost everyone in this nation” opposes abortion.
“I was always personally opposed to abortion, as I think almost everyone in this nation is,” he said, adding that the question for him was “the role of government.”
Romney said he hopes the U.S. ultimately bans abortion.
On stem cell research, he follows President George Bush's lead and would continue in that path.
And illegal immigrants? “They should go home eventually.”
Eventually?
Romney would favor substantial fines to companies who hire illegals and “potentially worse if they were egregious ... offenders.”
And gun control? “I don’t line up 100 percent with the NRA,” he said. “I don’t see eye to eye with the NRA on every issue.”
Romney referred to a Mormon view that evangelical Christians are cool to them in part for competitive reasons. Both camps fight for inductees, to bolster their power by numbers, and keep their coffers flowing.
On organized religion as big business and as a special interest group: “Well, you know, religions are in a competitive battle — they’re competing for souls and adherents,” he said. Later, he repeated: “As I indicated, there are competing faiths in this nation.”
Romney added that he was “delighted” to have the support of Jones. “The great thing, of course, is that our values are the same,” Romney added. “We have Christians and Jews, for instance. They don’t have the same faith, but we certainly have the same Judeo-Christian foundation.”
Asked about the statement in his recent speech that “freedom requires religion,” Romney elaborated: “Long-term, for America to remain a great nation, to lead the world, we must have a recognition of our religious faith. Now that’s, of course, not a particular denomination.”
Russert asked, “Can you be a moral person and be an atheist?”
Romney replied, “Oh, of course. Of course.”
Romney pledged he would have “no litmus test” about faith for nominees to the Supreme Court, or for such jobs as Secretary of Education.
Romney’s a schmuck, but that’s a disgustingly biased headline.
> Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said on NBC’s “Meet the Press” today that he “wept with relief” when the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints announced a 1978 revelation that the priesthood would no longer be denied to black people.
Sooooo Mitty... the fact this religion banned them in the first place didn’t give you a clue that they were a bit wacky?
Why would any grown man cry about this?
Wept? Does anyone actually believe that?
Many Mormons cried that day. It was a great day for the LDS Church. By the way, Gladys Knight is a Mormon.
If Romney were a Dimmycrap, tht headline (for the SAME story) would be “Romney Welcomed African Americans Into Priesthood.” They figure most people just read the headlines.
As if Mormons are the only group with an un-PC past. As far as atheists are concerned, all religions are “wacky.”
I seem to recall - it’s a historical fact - that Christians sat in the pews singing spiritual hymns while Native Americans were slaughtered - not to mention the church going folk who had slaves. Get over yourself already!
Why do I have a very hard time believing this?
I can understand why Mormons might have been emotional about it, but why should a Baptist care?
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.
This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed."
I don’t. Romney is an ambitious man. I’m sure he didn’t want to reject his culture, but he didn’t want their backward views holding him back by association either. Must have been a huge relief for him.
Every bible that I've ever read makes no mention of what Cain's mark was. It's all just speculation. One can't read into the bible what isn't there. This must be another false prophecy, or just horrible translating skills.
Could you please quantify that comparison that you made about the Native Americans and the Blacks? Which do you consider the greater sin?
So is a Mitt an old-fashioned Mormon racist just waiting to curse Blacks as soon as he gets the chance, or is he a closet liberal who might appoint judges who support things like affirmative action? Doesn’t seem like he can be both.
I wondered what happened to her. Now I understand why the Pips are never with her anymore. I hope she can overcome her self-worth issues. It must be hard when your religion states that you’re cursed because of the color of your skin.
I wonder if she realized they were racist before she joined their organization or if she’s like most blacks I’ve met who are Mormon. They haven’t read the book of Mormon and don’t have a clue as to what it says about blacks. Then when you show them chapter and verse what it says, they run to their Mormon leaders who tell them it’s no big deal.
It is good that they have finally allowed blacks to become priests. But when will they do the right thing and denounce their false prophet, Joseph Smith’s claim that blacks are cursed with black skin for not fighting hard enough?
Has Willard ever said the prior LDS position on blacks was wrong?
Is that the official Mormon view of Christians?
Pips, not pimps
The doctrine was used to support a ban on ordaining blacks to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s in the U.S. and Europe. The Coptic, Ethiopian, Orthodox, Thomasite and the Catholic church did not recognize these interpretations and did not participate in the religious movement to support them. Certain Catholic Diocese in the Southern United States did adopt a policy of not ordaining blacks to oversee, administer sacraments to, or accept confessions from white parishioners. This policy was not based on a Curse of Cain teaching, but was justified by any possible perceptions of having slaves rule over their masters. (Dictionary of African-American Slavery)
Baptists and other denominations including Pentecostals officially taught or practiced various forms of racial segregation well into the mid-to-late-20th century, though all races were accepted to worship services after the 1970s and 1980s when many official policies were changed. In fact, it wasn't until 1995, that the Southern Baptist Convention officially renounced its "racist roots." Nearly all Protestant groups in America had supported the notion that black slavery, oppression, and African colonization was the result of God's curse on people with black skin or of African descent through Cain or through the curse of Ham, and some churches practiced racial segregation as late as the 1990s, including Pentecostalism. Today, however, official acceptance and practice of the doctrine among Protestant ogranizations is limited almost exclusively to churches connected to white supremacy, such as the Aryan World Church and the New Christian Crusade Church.
What is a “Pip”?
You’ve raised a valid point.
Killing is worse than denying positions of leadership.
I thought that’s what you meant! ;)
Are you kidding? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Knight_&_the_Pips
All you needed to know and everything you never wanted to know.
This is the kind of thing that’s going to sink Romney’s ship. It is so blatantly intended to appease, rather than lead.
So is former Utah Jazz guard Thurl Bailey.
I’m not asking anybody to ‘get over themselves’ here. But if you’re next post is ‘we need to get rid of all these Mormons because they are wackos’, I’m going to have to object.
Theological differences exist. Not all of us agree with any particular religion which is evidenced by the fact that we are made up of different religions and various denominations even of Christianity which is the primary faith.
A theological discussion about the candidates doesn’t exact help us here. Its as bad as that stupid YouTube video with the guy holding up the Bible and saying ‘Do you believe every word in this book?’ Its a set up. Anybody who thinks they are going to be able to stand up and publicly defend every single word in their religion is either a theological scholar or delusional.
There are black marks in the history all virtually all religions (I don’t know them all so i’m leaving some room for doubt). How we deal with our black marks probably says more about us. Or maybe it says that the faithful aren’t necessarily at fault for the faults of the leaders of their faiths and those leaders aren’t always right.
Since nobody can honestly say that Romney is going to ban black people from the government if he is elected, lets keep this to the issues and public policy and the integrity and personal character of the candidates.
“Many Mormons cried that day. It was a great day for the LDS Church. “
It must have been difficult for them, having to wait until 1978 for God to finally flip flop on the race thing.
One thing that worries me is how stiff and defensive Romney gets whenever he's asked a question that his prepared response doesn't really cover. Especially on subjects of religion; I'm thinking of his shaky "I believe in the Bible" when asked for a followup on his answer during the YouTube debate.
Whether it's what he thinks or not, the impression I get is that while he approved of the change when it occurred, he wasn't exactly disapproving of the exclusion of blacks when it was the policy either. "God must have a reason for it," or something, was his rationale.
He could have done himself better if he'd said "It was wrong, Tim, I believed that in my bones, and I'd prayed for some time that God would reveal to the church leadership this basic truth." What he actually said undercut his message a little.
He needs to work on this, because in the event of his nomination stuff like this is going to hurt.
He hasn’t and he won’t.
...There are black marks in the history all virtually all religions (I don’t know them all so i’m leaving some room for doubt). How we deal with our black marks probably says more about us. Or maybe it says that the faithful aren’t necessarily at fault for the faults of the leaders of their faiths and those leaders aren’t always right.
Amen, brother (or sister, whichever you are). If you are determined to leave or defame a church, religion, or belief system, you WILL find a reason, because all beliefs are practiced by imperfect people.
Well that was wrong!
Plain and simple, wrong!
Would that Willard would wise up and say that too!
Well, I know I’m imperfect.
And that’s exactly what my rabbi keeps telling people in my family.....
Mitt wept when church ended discrimination
The Mormon Church has an appalling, indefensible history of bigotry as abundantly documented here:
Mormon Racism
And as you can see on the prior threads, LDS members have no response other than to say, "We stopped in 1978."
Without question, the liberal MSM is going to have a field day on this issue if Mitt gains the GOP nomination.
Gag me with a spoon.
Is she? Cool.
Will the U.S. race for the president ever divorce itself from talk of dogma, faith and stripe of religion?”
_________________________
I hope not....speaking as a Christian first, a conservative second, and a Republican third.
Hey Sandy, did you ever think many cried because they did not want the change?
There are two sides to every story.
Hey Sandy, you seeming to recall, does not make a historical fact. It makes it a fact someone told you this story.
My family, church goers, had slaves and I can prove it. I can also prove they gave them their freedom in 1783.
Thank you Ms. Perfect.
I suppose your anscestors and/or religious affiliations have been 100% perfect thru history.
At least Romney supporters have something to support, and do not just spend their entire waking lives obsessing AGAINST someone as it seems these Romney bashers do on FR.
Since your fellow mormon apologists are so adamant that others source their statements, it would be fair for you to post links to the source when you continue to post this piece. Thanks
You forgot to add, "without express permission from SLC", which will probably be forthcoming if it appears to be pragmatic.
OK, Crazy John is now my first choice.
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