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Bad information leads police to wrong house; bullets fly
Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | December 16, 2007 | Patrick Kennedy

Posted on 12/17/2007 8:37:42 AM PST by Ken H

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1 posted on 12/17/2007 8:37:44 AM PST by Ken H
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To: Ken H

This Gestapo crap needs to end before some innocent person is killed ...


2 posted on 12/17/2007 8:39:26 AM PST by clamper1797 (Fred Thompson - Duncan Hunter for POTUS and Vice Potus in either order)
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To: Ken H

Did they kill the dog?


3 posted on 12/17/2007 8:40:09 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: Ken H

They need to train with the Atlanta cops. They don’t leave witnesses.


4 posted on 12/17/2007 8:40:12 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Ken H

Wonder if they’ll charge the guy with police assault? Even though I applaud his defense of his home and family I think he’s lucky he’s still alive. SWAT teams are pretty heavily armed.


5 posted on 12/17/2007 8:40:59 AM PST by saganite (Lust type what you what in the “tagline” space)
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To: Ken H

The guy is lucky to be alive.

And I’m betting the SWAT Team leader is asking the team “Even if if was a mistake - why is he still alive?”


6 posted on 12/17/2007 8:42:13 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: saganite

“We won’t prosecute you, if you promise not to sue us...”

Or, something like that......


7 posted on 12/17/2007 8:42:16 AM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo (Merry Christmas!)
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To: Ken H
Why was it necessary to break into this house at 12:45 am? If someone knocks on my door at that time of the night, i'm not answering it either, and will probably reach for a gun as well.

this nonsense has to stop.

8 posted on 12/17/2007 8:42:35 AM PST by jdub
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To: Ken H
A few claymores around the perimeter?
9 posted on 12/17/2007 8:42:36 AM PST by Friend_from_the_Frozen_North (If you are, as Rush would say, "A Glittering Jewel of Colossal Ignorance" don't waste my time...)
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To: clamper1797
This Gestapo crap needs to end before some innocent person is killed ...

I stand in agreement. There is no reason for these types of raids unless someone's life in in imminent and immediate danger.

10 posted on 12/17/2007 8:43:21 AM PST by meyer (Illegal Immigration - The profits are privatized, the costs are socialized.)
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To: Ken H

Wow, and he lived to tell about it? Amazing.


11 posted on 12/17/2007 8:45:09 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: Squantos

Lubbuck SWAT lives on.


12 posted on 12/17/2007 8:45:45 AM PST by razorback-bert (Posted by Time's Man of the Year)
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To: clamper1797

This Gestapo crap needs to end before MORE innocent PEOPLE ARE killed ...


13 posted on 12/17/2007 8:48:13 AM PST by READINABLUESTATE ("life is dangerous")
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To: meyer

All joking aside ... whether you’re for the WOsD or not ... IMHO there is NO amount of illegal drugs that justifies this type of paramilitary action against citizens of this country ... guilty or not. If the amount of drugs in question is flushable in the time it takes to serve a warrant PROPERLY ... it ain’t worth the chance of hurting an innocent.


14 posted on 12/17/2007 8:49:02 AM PST by clamper1797 (Fred Thompson - Duncan Hunter for POTUS and Vice Potus in either order)
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To: Ken H

The total incompetence of government at all levels has filtered into most of our police departments.

This sh*t is just over the top and is occurring at a disturbing frequency.


15 posted on 12/17/2007 8:49:07 AM PST by dragnet2
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To: Ken H
No one answered the front door at the house on Sunday night.

A brave but stupid reporter who attempted that follow-up visit!

16 posted on 12/17/2007 8:49:07 AM PST by NonValueAdded (Fred Dalton Thompson for President)
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To: clamper1797
This Gestapo crap needs to end before some innocent person is killed ...

There have been plenty of innocent people killed by these Jack Booted thugs. When innocent people start shooting back, well good luck for them.

17 posted on 12/17/2007 8:49:49 AM PST by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: clamper1797
This Gestapo crap needs to end before some innocent person is killed ...

just another fun and games for guys that couldn't make it in spec ops but really like wearing the balaclava, black helmets and body armor with dynamic entrances. What is the point? I'll gladly show them how to do a snatch and grab so that they never have to blow down a door again. But it just doesn't look as cool, does it?

Oh and by the way, innocent people have been killed. But they're poor so it just doesn't matter.

How come they don't do this to the MS-13, Crips, Blood, LK's or Mexican Mafia? They KNOW they've got drugs and guns. But it's easier to go after grannies and guys with kids in their house. I like LEO's. I shoot with them. But puhleeze, anybody with half a brain knows that these are just PR knock downs in order to justify increasing budgets and maybe, just maybe they get to buy more toys.....like an APC...or hell a real tank. That would be great, huh?

18 posted on 12/17/2007 8:50:37 AM PST by Dick Vomer (liberals suck....... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.,)
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To: Ken H

The account in the Strib says the homeowner (shooter, victim) spoke no English.

In this account....http://wcco.com/crime/shots.fired.officers.2.611952.html the homeowner has lived in this country for 20 years.....Hmmmmmmm


19 posted on 12/17/2007 8:50:46 AM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo (Merry Christmas!)
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To: unixfox
This Gestapo crap needs to end before some innocent person is killed ...

You do know that I was being facetious ...

20 posted on 12/17/2007 8:51:27 AM PST by clamper1797 (Fred Thompson - Duncan Hunter for POTUS and Vice Potus in either order)
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To: clamper1797; Travis McGee; Squantos; Joe Brower

Agreed. Routine warrants should be served during daylight hours after knocking. So what if they flush anything? Only drugs can be flushed and they leave residue. If the evidence is gone, the perps can explain it to their suppliers. And it’s hard to flush stolen car parts.

Any other types of raids should be for extreme emergencies only (hostage rescue, for example).


21 posted on 12/17/2007 8:51:57 AM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido

They were just killing time between Minnesota Vikings’ arrests.....

;-)


22 posted on 12/17/2007 8:53:51 AM PST by ButThreeLeftsDo (Merry Christmas!)
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To: Ken H
Every one horse town with a two bit sheriff has a paramilitary enforcement organization within it called a S W A T team. It is a constitutional violation on so many different fronts it would take the rest of the day for a list to be compiled. No Knock entry into private property (the primary use of such forces) should be in the top ten and maybe even number one.
23 posted on 12/17/2007 8:55:41 AM PST by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: Ken H
Had one of these in Georgia about this time last year...

Elderly woman killed in her own home with a no-knock warrant.

Bad info.... funky, unreliable "informant" under duress to give the "elite" drug squad something they sould use...ASAP...

Let's get those arrest numbers back up there!

Gestapo tactics... IMHO
"Veeee hafff to seee ze papers...
"Vee shall come and go as veee please..."

You dare to shootback...
Vee vill keel ze dog...
Veee vill strip-search your zleeping wife...
Vee vill take your children away....

You vill cooperate.... OR ELSE!!...
Veee might haff to consider ze use of force!

Zank you for your cooperation...

4th Amendment???
We don't need to steeenkin' 4th amendment...

24 posted on 12/17/2007 8:55:53 AM PST by Wings-n-Wind (The main things are the plain things!)
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To: Ken H

with shots exchanged between police — who were struck by bullets —

Only after you read the entire article do you find out the “bullets” the cops were struck with were actually pellets likely fired from a 12 Ga.

Kinda like calling a chinese SKS an AK-47. I hate sloppy/inaccurate reporting.


25 posted on 12/17/2007 8:56:56 AM PST by READINABLUESTATE ("life is dangerous")
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To: Dick Vomer
Hooked on SWAT (FR thread from 2001)

Fueled With Drug Enforcement Money, Military-Style Police Teams Are Exploding In The Backwoods Of Wisconsin

-snip-

Wendy Olveda, five months pregnant, was on the computer preparing lessons for the fifth-grade class she teaches at Markesan Elementary School. Jesus, her husband, was in the bedroom reading, and their 3-year-old daughter, Zena, was passing the time quietly on a couch.

Suddenly the door burst open and several armed men in black uniforms burst into the home. Within seconds Wendy and her husband, Jesus, were thrown roughly face down to the floor and ordered to put their hands behind their heads.

26 posted on 12/17/2007 8:57:22 AM PST by Ken H
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To: Ken H

these SWAT teams are really getting out of control.


27 posted on 12/17/2007 8:57:23 AM PST by AIM-54
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To: dragnet2
This sh*t is just over the top and is occurring at a disturbing frequency.

It's just my paranoid opinion that the police are doing these SWAT raids NOT as a way to bust drug dealers ... BUT rather are using them as a show of force for the citizenry. I believe it's a veiled threat to those who may think that the tree of liberty may need a little watering ...

28 posted on 12/17/2007 8:59:44 AM PST by clamper1797 (Fred Thompson - Duncan Hunter for POTUS and Vice Potus in either order)
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To: Ken H

I had written a post about how incompetent the SWAT team is but then I had a second thought. Maybe that the homeowner didn’t get shot tells how well trained the SWAT team is.

Mistakes happen in every line of work. The SWAT team stopped, in the heat of the action, before something really bad happened. I applaud them.


29 posted on 12/17/2007 8:59:51 AM PST by live+let_live
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To: saganite

Wonder if they’ll charge the guy with police assault?

They are saying on the radio here that the man has been questioned and released. His family is considering a legal action.


30 posted on 12/17/2007 9:00:08 AM PST by READINABLUESTATE ("life is dangerous")
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To: Ken H
2 to 1 odds that the family dog got murdered.

End the failed war on some drugs. It's not worth kicking in doors to make sure someone isn't smoking a plant.
31 posted on 12/17/2007 9:00:09 AM PST by mysterio
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo

My Grandfather came to America as a youth and learned to speak English without an accent and only spoke English in his home so my mother only new his original language minimally....his sister a few years older never ever learned the language.

Go figure, but dont assume that being here 20 years is a guarantee of language proficiency.


32 posted on 12/17/2007 9:01:15 AM PST by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: clamper1797

Time to put these dogs on a leash.

I’m all FOR having a SWAT team, or whatever they call them now, but when they get bad intel on the perps and kick in the wrong guy innocent people die, including cops.

If someone came crashing in MY house in the middle of the night, I’ll probably go down fighting, since I don’t keep kevlar in the bedroom usually, but I damned sure have an arsenal that will take down someone wearing it....

Sorry, police should NOT be kicking in doors like that, unless it is a KNOWN hostage situation or something worse. When you go to an address in the middle of the night (or whenever) and you’re trying to surprise the occupants by terrorizing them into submission, then you’re cruising for a bruising.


33 posted on 12/17/2007 9:02:35 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: Dick Vomer
How come they don't do this to the MS-13, Crips, Blood, LK's or Mexican Mafia?

My thoughts exactly. And why is it they can't seal off the border?

34 posted on 12/17/2007 9:03:12 AM PST by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: Ken H

sickening..


35 posted on 12/17/2007 9:05:22 AM PST by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: ButThreeLeftsDo

“We won’t prosecute you, if you promise not to sue us...”

Or, something like that......

And I’d be saying, “F*** You. I’m suing, go ahead and arrest me for defending my family against an unknown intrusion. ANYONE can SHOUT ‘POLICE!’ can’t they moron!”

Then I’d sue them for false arrest, endangerment, shooting my dog and kicking my door in. Good grief, this is BS. SWAT teams should be held in reserve for KNOWN SITUATIONS that can’t be handled by regular law enforcement personnel. Once they have the goods on someone and an arrest goes wrong, that’s when SWAT is supposed to come in. That was their ORIGINAL purpose, and they need to keep them back until then.

SWAT belongs at hostage situations and KNOWN bad guys being holed up after an LE contact, not kicking in doors in the middle of the night.


36 posted on 12/17/2007 9:06:15 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: Ken H
D'OH Alert

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

37 posted on 12/17/2007 9:07:45 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Ken H
Like the man in Mississippi this one will most likely be in jail for life. It must be total stupidity for a SWAT team to raid a house when they have not even look to see if it is the correct house or if the person who turned them on to this house was a liar.

Just like the Nazi and Communist. They should be fired immediately. And brought to court for felon breaking and entering.

38 posted on 12/17/2007 9:07:58 AM PST by YOUGOTIT (The Greatest Threat to our Security is the US Senate)
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To: clamper1797
"This Gestapo crap needs to end before some innocent person is killed ..."

If memory serves, that has already happened several times. The most egregious was the Weaver family (Ruby Ridge) when the feds raided to arrest him for "selling a sawed-off shotgun". As I recall, his wife, son, and baby were killed.

39 posted on 12/17/2007 9:09:27 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: live+let_live
Maybe that the homeowner didn't get shot tells how well trained the SWAT team is.

From the article: "...in a raid that ended with shots exchanged..."

What do you think these well trained officers were shooting at?

40 posted on 12/17/2007 9:09:59 AM PST by Ken H
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To: clamper1797
before some innocent person is killed ...

Huh? Thousands of innocents have already been killed in an "Epidemic of Isolated Incidents."

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/index.php#

41 posted on 12/17/2007 9:10:49 AM PST by dashing doofus (Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber)
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To: ClearCase_guy; Ken H
Did they kill the dog?

Who, the cops or the family? They apparently were Vietnamese, ya know, and it was after the dinner hour.

42 posted on 12/17/2007 9:11:28 AM PST by rmh47 (Go Kats! - Got Seven? [NRA Life Member])
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To: Wonder Warthog

Son first, then wife was shot in the face by one of the Feds. The baby lived. I saw them on television a few months back. The daughter was grown up and moved away, and the younger baby wouldn’t go on TV for some reason. (She’s a young adult now if I remember right). Weaver still lives in the same house.


43 posted on 12/17/2007 9:11:49 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: READINABLUESTATE
They are saying on the radio here that the man has been questioned and released. His family is considering a legal action.

They ought to sue the bastards for all they're worth.

You don't go smashing into someone's home in the middle of the night heavily armed without GOOD, CONFIRMED intel.

44 posted on 12/17/2007 9:12:19 AM PST by Luke Skyfreeper
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To: clamper1797

I was hoping your were. Now I know you were.


45 posted on 12/17/2007 9:13:42 AM PST by unixfox (The 13th Amendment Abolished Slavery, The 16th Amendment Reinstated It !)
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To: Ken H

I was just laughing the other night when I read in a local newspaper where the small police department just received a (I forgot the correct name of it) bascially an Army tank.

I’m serious, a tank.

A few years ago the SWAT team in Franklin TN kicked in the door (a wrong address) in the middle of the night, and when the homeowner grabbed his gun they shot him dead. This is happening too frequently.

If these guys want to play Army why don’t we send them down to protect the US/Mexican border with all their equipment, especially considering the Border Patrol is always complaining about not having enough money/equipment.


46 posted on 12/17/2007 9:16:07 AM PST by girlangler (Fish Fear Me)
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To: live+let_live
"The SWAT team stopped, in the heat of the action, before something really bad happened."

Kind of like the Arlington, Texas SWAT who had a confirmed armed, triple murder suspect surrounded on the street and allowed him to drive off with out firing a shot.

47 posted on 12/17/2007 9:19:25 AM PST by Deaf Smith
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To: Ken H
If the authorities are really serious about ending junk like this, here are some ideas:

1) Demilitarise the police except for very specific, legally-defined circumstances. We don't need cops running around with body armour and automatic weapons pretending like they're soldiers while they kick in doors of private dwellings.

2) Make the cops actually abide by the Constitution. Get a warrant, and serve the warrant. Don't just bust down doors on a bogus "warrantless entry" action.

3) Corroborate informant information with evidence from other sources. We don't know that's what happened here, but it's often the case that police act on "tips" from people with grudges against the victim, and the cops don't check into it since they're hoping to score a big drug bust so they can get that new department "anti-drug boat" just in time for summer.

48 posted on 12/17/2007 9:22:16 AM PST by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus ("Hi, My name is Mitt, and I invented the fifty dollar abortion!")
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To: Ken H

Militarized “Law Enforcement*” has become the “standing army” our Founders feared.

*a phrase that is so common it has lost its Orwellian essence.


49 posted on 12/17/2007 9:23:58 AM PST by Atlas Sneezed ("We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them, I won't chip away at them" -Mitt Romney)
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To: Ken H

The only way the jackboots will even consider changing their paramilitary tactics is if a few of their spec-ops wannabes meet an ugly end. ...and it’s bound to happen sooner or later. Oh yeah, and if enough PDs are successfully sued. I hope Vang is consulting an attorney right now.


50 posted on 12/17/2007 9:23:59 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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