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300 TURKISH TROOPS ENTER NORTHERN IRAQ OVERNIGHT -SENIOR IRAQI MILITARY SOURCE
Reuters ^ | December 18, 2007

Posted on 12/17/2007 11:46:27 PM PST by HAL9000

300 TURKISH TROOPS ENTER NORTHERN IRAQ OVERNIGHT -SENIOR IRAQI MILITARY SOURCE


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: iraq; kurdistan; kurds; pkk; turkey; turkishtroops
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1 posted on 12/17/2007 11:46:30 PM PST by HAL9000
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To: HAL9000

Reuters - TURKISH TROOPS MOVE 2-3 KM INTO IRAQ, LIGHTLY ARMED, NO CLASHES


2 posted on 12/17/2007 11:47:48 PM PST by HAL9000 (Fred Thompson/Mike Huckabee 2008)
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To: HAL9000

AP News Alert - KIRKUK, Iraq (AP) - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice makes unannounced visit to Kirkuk, the city that Iraq’s Kurds call their Jerusalem.


3 posted on 12/17/2007 11:48:48 PM PST by HAL9000 (Fred Thompson/Mike Huckabee 2008)
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To: HAL9000

Yikes! This isn’t good.


4 posted on 12/17/2007 11:51:55 PM PST by Lobbyist (I want my American dream!!!!)
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To: HAL9000

It looks like Turkey will get served this Christmas.


5 posted on 12/17/2007 11:55:41 PM PST by counterpunch (Get Up And Go Fred Go Already!)
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To: HAL9000
But they're our 'allies'. They want to kill them so it's okay...
6 posted on 12/17/2007 11:59:39 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: kinoxi

Maybe put a sarcasm tag on that one.


7 posted on 12/18/2007 12:00:29 AM PST by kinoxi
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To: HAL9000
NTV - Turkish strike in Iraq within rights to self defence says US
8 posted on 12/18/2007 12:05:16 AM PST by HAL9000 (Fred Thompson/Mike Huckabee 2008)
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To: kinoxi

“Maybe put a sarcasm tag on that one.”

Why? Seemed reasonable enough.


9 posted on 12/18/2007 12:13:50 AM PST by UKTory
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To: HAL9000
U.S. Helps Turkey Hit Rebel Kurds In Iraq


10 posted on 12/18/2007 12:14:06 AM PST by familyop
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To: familyop

Thank you.


11 posted on 12/18/2007 12:33:03 AM PST by DoughtyOne (California, where the death penalty is reserved for wholesome values. SB 777)
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To: HAL9000

OK... Now I’m sufficiently confused. Are these Kurds that are being targeted hostiles? Are they siding with Al Qaeda — hence the term separatists. Or are these the same Kurds that simply wished to develop their own country? Have these people proved to have been dangerous, and/or perpetrating attacks in Turkey?

Perhaps someone would be so kind as to fill me in as I’m obviously not as educated on this particular issue as I thought... Thanks in advance for any links, etc... so that I can increase my understanding.


12 posted on 12/18/2007 12:33:57 AM PST by LibertyRocks ( I'm a redhead & a FRedhead! LOL)
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To: All

PS —
I’m reading over the articles linked in this thread thus far now... Maybe after doing so this will become more clear to me.


13 posted on 12/18/2007 12:35:16 AM PST by LibertyRocks ( I'm a redhead & a FRedhead! LOL)
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To: familyop

Thank you for the link to the Washington Post article. It contained a LOT more information than the Reuters article, and helped me remember some stuff I had apparently forgotten.

I don’t however understand how this is possibly going to help the U.S. in the long-run to quell the political unrest in Iraq. If anything I think this will make our job that much harder...


14 posted on 12/18/2007 12:43:37 AM PST by LibertyRocks ( I'm a redhead & a FRedhead! LOL)
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To: HAL9000

Backing up US troops or joining the “insurgency” invasion?

The bombing of Turkey starts at 0700 hours...


15 posted on 12/18/2007 12:46:35 AM PST by weegee (If Bill Clinton can sit in on Hillary's Cabinet Meetings then GWBush should ask to get to sit in too)
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To: HAL9000

Where did Condi hang the “no jews welcome” sign?


16 posted on 12/18/2007 12:47:21 AM PST by weegee (If Bill Clinton can sit in on Hillary's Cabinet Meetings then GWBush should ask to get to sit in too)
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To: weegee

“The bombing of Turkey starts at 0700 hours...”

Err, no it doesn’t.


17 posted on 12/18/2007 12:48:01 AM PST by UKTory
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To: weegee
When redacted articles are going to be published to FR, can people please include ANY details as to WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, and

WHY?

18 posted on 12/18/2007 12:49:27 AM PST by weegee (If Bill Clinton can sit in on Hillary's Cabinet Meetings then GWBush should ask to get to sit in too)
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To: UKTory

Obviously the sarcasm tag was implied but what are the specifics?

Friend or foe border crossings?

The Mexican army crossings into the US certainly are no friends and much of the “insurgency” is of foreign origin.


19 posted on 12/18/2007 12:51:15 AM PST by weegee (If Bill Clinton can sit in on Hillary's Cabinet Meetings then GWBush should ask to get to sit in too)
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To: LibertyRocks

“Are these Kurds that are being targeted hostiles?”

They’re are a Communist terrorist group that has been conducting operations against Turkey since the 1970s.

“Have these people proved to have been dangerous, and/or perpetrating attacks in Turkey?”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6537751.stm

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=August&x=20060815162716MVyelwarC0.9579126

““Since August 15, 1984, PKK violence has accounted for the deaths of more than 30,000 Turkish security forces and civilians,” State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said in a statement August 14.

The U.S. government is “calling upon the PKK to cease its terrorist acts and lay down its arms,” McCormack said.”


20 posted on 12/18/2007 12:53:26 AM PST by UKTory
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To: HAL9000

Someone tell the Turks that the Persians are the next country over.

21 posted on 12/18/2007 1:07:57 AM PST by thecabal
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To: LibertyRocks
Are these Kurds that are being targeted hostiles?

Yes. They're targeting the PKK, a group considered a Kurdish terrorist organization by the United States, Britain, and even the EU. Clashes with the PKK have killed tens of thousands of people in Turkey since the 1980s.

PKK has stepped up its terrorist activities after the Iraqi war, with hopes of taking over southeastern Turkey to create a Kurdish nation.

Many PKK members are based in Iraq, and have been illegaly crossing over the border into Turkey to committ terrorist acts against Turkish civilians and soldiers.

22 posted on 12/18/2007 1:09:18 AM PST by L.M.H.
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To: UKTory; LibertyRocks

Liberty, I am totally lost on this issue so I understand what you mean.
JMO, but I bet these “terrorist” PPK members are also the ones that helped the US carry out operations in the north during the Invasion of Iraq. Bet they were instrumental in eliminating Iraqi troops along side the US forces.

Again, JMO, I bet it was the Kurdish who P.O.’d a few state department folks and GW when they decided they wanted to form their own government and claim the oil in the north as their own.

So our intelligence and that of the Turks is so great that they are only bombing the PKK bad Kurds while not affecting the good Kurds in the process.

Wasn’t it part of our reasons for sanctions against Saddam because he was killing the Kurds? Must have been the good ones because we are allowing the Turks to invade Iraq and eliminate the bad Kurds. Why did we not do it? Seems crazy to allow another country in.

Something just does not seem right. Once I read the articles UKTory you provided links to, I may have a better understanding of the matter at hand.


23 posted on 12/18/2007 1:25:51 AM PST by rineaux (How dare you, how dare you question the Clinton's wrecked record.)
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To: HAL9000

Done without any international process... from the same guys who tried to stop us and said us going there was not legal


24 posted on 12/18/2007 2:01:52 AM PST by JudgemAll (control freaks, their world & their problem with my gun and my protecting my private party)
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To: HAL9000
Hopefully the Kurds are properly armed and supplied.
25 posted on 12/18/2007 2:10:57 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: HAL9000
Reuters - Turkish troops clashed with PKK in Iraq-army source
26 posted on 12/18/2007 2:14:08 AM PST by HAL9000 (Fred Thompson/Mike Huckabee 2008)
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To: HAL9000

how many times was this done before AP decided it was news worthy


27 posted on 12/18/2007 2:40:13 AM PST by Flavius (24/7)
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To: HAL9000

Before 2003, Saddam used the Ansar al-Islam jihadists and al Qaeda encamped in northern Iraq to keep the PKK in line. Now they’re all dead and the PKK has had a free reign to kill Turks. This was a well-known risk during the run-up to the invasion.


28 posted on 12/18/2007 2:55:35 AM PST by Thrownatbirth (.....Iraq Invasion fan since 1991.)
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To: HAL9000

Our little “friends” the Turks are trying to stop any stabilization in Iraq because they want to continue to surpress their own Kurdish minority and take over Kurdistan - or at least part of it.


29 posted on 12/18/2007 3:25:38 AM PST by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
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To: L.M.H.

Let’s see if the Kurdish civilians will resist the Islamofascist Turks invading Iraq.


30 posted on 12/18/2007 3:25:53 AM PST by Wiz
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To: kinoxi

The PKK are not our allies.

All Kurds are not the same.


31 posted on 12/18/2007 3:30:07 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: PeteB570

Correct, but Turkey’s legitimate fight against PKK is only a pretext of destabilizing and ultimately subdueing ANY Kurdish self-ruling entity next door.


32 posted on 12/18/2007 3:54:21 AM PST by SolidWood (Al Gore: "I have never heard of this, but I think it is a very good idea,")
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To: SolidWood

Turkey, Iraq and Iran all have a problem with a self ruling Kurdish entity.


33 posted on 12/18/2007 4:12:13 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: HAL9000
NTV - Turkish strike in Iraq within rights to self defence says US

So why can't we strike into Pakistan to get Al Qaeda members?

34 posted on 12/18/2007 4:39:57 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Repeal the Terrible Two -- the 16th and 17th Amendments! Sink LOST!)
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To: rineaux
...but I bet these “terrorist” PPK members are also the ones that helped the US carry out operations in the north during the Invasion of Iraq

No, you would be wrong.

35 posted on 12/18/2007 4:46:00 AM PST by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: All
To all who think that what Turkey did is wrong.

John Burnett reports one the recent surge of violence along the U.S.-Mexico border. In the past weeks, gunmen have fired on U.S. Border Patrol agents, Mexican drug traffickers have attacked Texas lawmen. . . .

Think of the drug smugglers as the Marxist PKK terrorists -- including a time in the future when 20,000 or so Americans have been killed by the drug smugglers trying to establish control over portions of the U.S. The 20,000 is the approximate number of Turkish civilian casualties caused by the PKK since the 1980s. The total number of deaths is greater owing to Turkish counterattacks.

What would we do? If you think what Turkey did is wrong then surely you'll argue that we should do nothing except let more Americans be murdered by the drug smugglers.

36 posted on 12/18/2007 4:50:31 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: rineaux

I advise everyone here to read the links posted. They really help illuminate the situation.

As has been posted before, the PKK is a brutal, terrorist, Marxist group of thugs, is not affiliated with the Kurdish government, is not a true defender of the Kurdish people, have actively killed tens of thousands of Turks, and are not to be called our allies. I have no qualms about an actual ally (however strained relations are now) killing few terrorists.


37 posted on 12/18/2007 5:17:01 AM PST by onja ("The government of England is a limited mockery.") (France is a complete mockery.)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

Appreciate your vast knowledge on the subject.


38 posted on 12/18/2007 5:29:31 AM PST by rineaux (How dare you, how dare you question the Clinton's wrecked record.)
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To: onja

Thanks, will do so. Hopefully the article(s) will answer some of the lingering questions I and others may have.


39 posted on 12/18/2007 5:30:22 AM PST by rineaux (How dare you, how dare you question the Clinton's wrecked record.)
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To: familyop

‘you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours’


40 posted on 12/18/2007 5:46:35 AM PST by nuconvert ("Terrorism is not the enemy. It is a means to the ends of militant Islamism." MZJ)
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To: All
Even the Kurdish Regional Government admits that it has no control over this "no man's land." The area consists of range after range of arid mountains topped by sawtooth rocks, towering over narrow, twisting river valleys. "A million men could hide in those mountains," Mohsin [an official with northern Iraq's dominant Kurdish Democratic Party] said.

This is a Marxist PKK issue. As noted elsewhere we consider the PKK terrorists as do the European nations.

Even after the destruction of the Marxist PKK there is no guarantee that Kurdistan meddling in eastern Turkey won't one day lead to war. That's another matter.

41 posted on 12/18/2007 6:01:44 AM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: nuconvert

...with a knife blade.


42 posted on 12/18/2007 6:17:55 AM PST by Tulsa Ramjet ("If not now, when?" "Because it's judgment that defeats us.")
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To: HAL9000

Maybe they just wanted to get some steaks at the local Sizzler.


43 posted on 12/18/2007 6:19:46 AM PST by Fitzcarraldo
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To: HAL9000
For those in the know:

Does Turkey have any problem with the Kurds in the eastern part of Turkey. Is there any armed resisitance to the Turk government?

44 posted on 12/18/2007 6:20:46 AM PST by purpleraine
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To: LibertyRocks
I don’t however understand how this is possibly going to help the U.S. in the long-run to quell the political unrest in Iraq. If anything I think this will make our job that much harder...

Well. Would you rather have a full-scale war between Turkey and ALL of the Kurds? Or just some pinprick raids with a NATO ALLY -against- a COMMUNIST Kurdish seperatist group, which, if successful, would break off part of Northern Iraq and Turkey to create a COMMUNIST MUSLIM STATE?

As Bush has learned, and the DIms haven't. We have only bad or worse choices in the middle east, and we can't choose to ignore them.

45 posted on 12/18/2007 6:23:00 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: Wiz

“Let’s see if the Kurdish civilians will resist the Islamofascist Turks invading Iraq.”


Maybe read up on the situation. The Kurds in question have been conducting terrorist attacks from Iraq into Turkey for years. Turkey is merely protecting itself, not unlike we did when we went into Iraq in 2003. Not all Turks are Muslim, let alone “Islamofascists”.


46 posted on 12/18/2007 6:39:09 AM PST by BritExPatInFla
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To: HAL9000

What crock. Who are all the lefties posting this garbage? America already told the Turks we would help them locate the PPK, Iraq already agreed to look the other way.

Despite what you read in the media, this is a waste of band width.

300 turks sitting on a dozen mountain tops looking out for invading PPK guerillas. BIG DEAL!


47 posted on 12/18/2007 6:53:19 AM PST by HD1200
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To: Caipirabob

You hope the Kurds armed and supplied? YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHO THESE PEOPLE (the Kurdish PPK) ARE DO YOU?

The PKK is listed as a terrorist organization internationally by a number of states and organizations, including the USA, NATO and the EU.[2]

Eric Rouleau in the November/December 2000 edition of ‘Foreign Affairs’ states:

According to the Turkish Ministry of Justice, in addition to the 35,000 people killed in military campaigns, 17,500 were assassinated between 1984, when the conflict began, and 1998. An additional 1,000 people were reportedly assassinated in the first nine months of 1999. According to the Turkish press, the authors of these crimes, none of whom have been arrested, belong to groups of mercenaries working either directly or indirectly for the security agencies.[3][4]
Human Rights Watch has stated that:

Consequently, all economic, political, military, social and cultural organizations, institutions, formations — and those who serve in them — have become targets. The entire country has become a battlefield.
The PKK also promised to “liquidate” or “eliminate” political parties, “imperialist” cultural and educational institutions, legislative and representative bodies, and “all local collaborators and agents working for the Republic of Turkey in Kurdistan.”[5]
It also notes that:

As Human Rights Watch has often reported and condemned, Turkish government forces have, in the course of the conflict with the PKK, also committed serious violations of international human rights and humanitarian law, including torture, extrajudicial killings, and indiscriminate fire. We continue to demand that the Turkish government investigate and hold accountable those members of its security forces responsible for these violations. Nonetheless, under international law, the government abuses cannot under any circumstances be seen to justify or excuse those committed by Ocalan’s PKK.[5]
Many who died were unarmed civilians, caught in the middle between the PKK and security forces, targeted for attacks by both sides.[6]
According to Amnesty International, the PKK killed and tortured Kurdish peasants and its own members in the 1980s. A number of Kurds have been abducted and killed because they were suspected of being “collaborators” or “informers” and it was a common practice for the PKK to kill their whole families.[7]

According to an article printed in the November 2002 issue of the International Socialist, monthly paper of the International Socialists, during the conflict (and still [as of 2002]), the Turkish army tortured, killed and “disappeared” civilians.[8] In 1997, Amnesty International (AI) reported that, “’Disappearances’ and extrajudicial executions have emerged as new and disturbing patterns of human rights violations ...” by the Turkish state.[9] According to an earlier (1996) report of AI, “in January 1996 the [Turkish] government announced that the PKK had massacred 11 men near the remote village of Güçlükonak. Seven of the victims were members of the local village guard force. Independent investigations suggested that the massacre was the work of the security forces”.[10]


48 posted on 12/18/2007 6:56:47 AM PST by HD1200
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To: HAL9000

check this out-

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119794106110035599.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Turkey’s Terror Problem Is Ours

By Michael Rubin
Wall Street Journal
December 18, 2007
Pg. 21

It’s been nearly two months since the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) sparked an international crisis with a major attack inside Turkey, and more than six weeks since President Bush promised Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan that Washington would aid Turkey’s fight against terrorism. Heady talk of intelligence sharing and cooperation followed and, indeed, may have been a factor in this weekend’s Turkish air strikes on PKK targets in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Yet at the same time the Bush administration — more precisely its increasingly assertive State Department — has embraced an ill-advised diplomatic strategy toward the PKK that will likely backfire on our long-standing NATO ally, and could serve to undermine what is left of President Bush’s “global war on terrorism.”

With 100,000 Turkish troops amassed alongside the Iraqi frontier, it is understandable that U.S. diplomats want to avert a military crisis. But, rather than take a zero-tolerance policy toward terrorism, the State Department is counseling Turkey to offer political concessions. On Dec. 13, for example, State Department Coordinator for Counterterrorism Dell Dailey said, “We have not looked at a military solution as the solution to the PKK. Our preference is a political solution,” both inside Iraqi Kurdistan and inside Turkey.

-snip-


49 posted on 12/18/2007 7:07:51 AM PST by RDTF (Remember Pearl Harbor)
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To: HAL9000

At some point in the near future the Muslim parastate of Turkey will disintegrate...


50 posted on 12/18/2007 8:39:08 AM PST by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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