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Supreme Court asked to hear Zoloft case
Charlotte.com ^ | Dec. 18, 2007 | MEG KINNARD

Posted on 12/18/2007 1:06:45 PM PST by neverdem

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The following excerpt is from the middle of the original review.

Talking Back to Prozac

Those risks, Healy perceived, included horrific withdrawal symptoms, such as dizziness, anxiety, nightmares, nausea, and constant agitation, that were frightening some users out of ever terminating their regimen—an especially bitter outcome in view of the manufacturers' promise of enhancing self-sufficiency and peace of mind. The key proclaimed advantage of the new serotonin drugs over the early tranquilizers, freedom from dependency, was simply false. Moreover, the companies had to have known they were gambling wildly with public health. As early as 1984, Healy reports, Eli Lilly had in hand the conclusion pronounced by Germany's ministry of health in denying a license to fluoxetine (later Prozac): "Considering the benefit and the risk, we think this preparation totally unsuitable for the treatment of depression."

As for the frequently rocky initial weeks of treatment, a troubling record not just of "suicidality" but of actual suicides and homicides was accumulating in the early 1990s. The drug firms, Healy saw, were distancing themselves from such tragedies by blaming depression itself for major side effects. Handouts for doctors and patients urged them to persist in the face of early emotional turmoil that only proved, they were told, how vigorously the medicine was tackling the ailment. So, too, dependency symptoms during termination were said to be evidence that the long-stifled depression was now reemerging.

The most gripping portions of Let Them Eat Prozac narrate courtroom battles in which Big Pharma's lawyers, parrying negligence suits by the bereaved, took this line of doubletalk to its limit by explaining SSRI-induced stabbings, shootings, and self-hangings by formerly peaceable individuals as manifestations of not-yet-subdued depression. As an expert witness for plaintiffs against SSRI makers in cases involving violent behavior, Healy emphasized that depressives don't commit mayhem. But he also saw that his position would be strengthened if he could cite the results of a drug experiment on undepressed, certifiably normal volunteers. If some of them, too, showed grave disturbance after taking Pfizer's Zoloft—and they did in Healy's test, with long-term consequences that have left him remorseful as well as indignant—then depression was definitively ruled out as the culprit.

Healy suspected that SSRI makers had squirreled away their own awkward findings about drug-provoked derangement in healthy subjects, and he found such evidence after gaining access to Pfizer's clinical trial data on Zoloft. In 2001, however, just when he had begun alerting academic audiences to his forthcoming inquiry, he was abruptly denied a professorship he had already accepted in a distinguished University of Toronto research institute supported by grants from Pfizer. The company hadn't directly intervened; the academics themselves had decided that there was no place on the team for a Zoloft skeptic.

This kid just had a state mandated increased dose of the drug before he killed his grandparents. If you think I'm a bleeding heart, then look up serotonin syndrome, serotonin withrawal syndrome or serotonin discontinuation syndrome. The "chemical imbalance" explanation for depression was just a bill of goods, IMHO.

1 posted on 12/18/2007 1:06:47 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

I am surprised there are more of these cases. Our society drugs way too many kids.


2 posted on 12/18/2007 1:10:26 PM PST by Always Right
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To: All
Regular webpage, 2nd paragraph:

Christopher Pittman used a shotgun to shoot his grandparents Joe and Joy Pittman, and then set fire to their home in 2001. During his trial four years later, Pittman's attorneys unsuccessfully argued the slayings were influenced by the antidepressant Zoloft - a charge the maker of the drug vigorously denied.

Printer friendly webpage, 2nd paragraph:

Christopher Pittman shoot his grandparents Joe and Joy Pittman with a shotgun in 2001, then set fire to their home. During his trial four years later, Pittman's attorneys unsuccessfully argued the slayings were influenced by the antidepressant Zoloft - a charge the maker of the drug vigorously denied.

3 posted on 12/18/2007 1:15:56 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem

Well, well. Finally the truth is seeping out.

I don’t look for this to gain mainstream traction, as the amount of money against the truth is just staggering.

Look for the “you must be a scientologist” crowd to be along shortly. They always show up on any threads that don’t promote drugs-for-mental-health.


4 posted on 12/18/2007 1:16:24 PM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: neverdem

Since this charge has been laid on anti-depressives, parents all over the country have stopped giving their kids those drugs or prevented them from being prescribed at all — and the number of suicides in that age group have gone up. What is the solution, then?

The mall killer in Omaha was on anti-depressant drugs — which he did not take. He was also on various kinds of illegal drugs. How many of the people who commit suicide are also on other drugs, legal or otherwise?


5 posted on 12/18/2007 1:18:49 PM PST by jim_trent
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To: cinives

Is that you Tom Cruise???


6 posted on 12/18/2007 1:19:35 PM PST by Moleman
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To: neverdem

If he can murder two people in cold blood at the age of twelve I don’t want him to ever get out. But that’s just me.


7 posted on 12/18/2007 1:20:54 PM PST by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: neverdem
A murderer is a murderer unless he or she was protecting themselves. I really do not care about the drugs if that was so then the drunks would not be libel when they commit murder on the street.
8 posted on 12/18/2007 1:21:07 PM PST by YOUGOTIT (The Greatest Threat to our Security is the US Senate)
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To: Always Right
Our society drugs way too many kids.

Lazy parents are to blame IMHO. The "NEVER work at something a DRUG can do for you", crowd that makes up most of the Boomer and XGen parents!

9 posted on 12/18/2007 1:22:44 PM PST by PISANO
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To: Always Right

Drugs way to many people to with these designer lift up drugs. There are so many dangers with them.


10 posted on 12/18/2007 1:24:27 PM PST by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
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To: Running On Empty

Marking


11 posted on 12/18/2007 1:25:50 PM PST by Running On Empty ((The three sorriest words:"It's too late"))
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To: YOUGOTIT

there’s a difference between killing and murdering.


12 posted on 12/18/2007 1:26:12 PM PST by tired1 (responsibility without authority is slavery!)
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To: neverdem

Although there was a denial in the media that the omaha shooter was on SSRIs, you cannot mass a mass killing of strangers in America in the last 30 years in which the killer wasn’t on these drugs.

This subject is in dispute but the science is far more solid than anything having to do with global warming. Even the Bush FDA (not exactly an industry unfriendly group) put a warning label on SSRIs for kids because they cause....wait for it.....wait for it.....suicidal and homicidal ideation. For laypeople, ideation means that you have thoughts of something which were not previously occurring.

At what point are these chemical shotguns going to get banned, at least for children? (Its a shotgun because it has no way of knowing where it goes and covers all receptors whether they are unhealthy or not.)


13 posted on 12/18/2007 1:26:18 PM PST by bpjam (Harry Reid doesn't even have 32% of my approval)
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To: cinives
I don’t look for this to gain mainstream traction, as the amount of money against the truth is just staggering.

I hope the truth gets out, but maybe the only way for this kid to catch a break is if the bleeding hearts and Kennedy thinks it is cruel and unusual punishment.

IMHO, he killed while he was obeying a state mandated psychosis. IIRC, he's been normal since he has been off the drugs in jail.

14 posted on 12/18/2007 1:29:07 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: PISANO

Bingo.

Its way easier to just pop a pill than to have to spend the hours trying to work with your kid to get them the necessary exercise, nutrition and mental activity necessary to prevent (insert your mental illness here).

If I told my mother that I was depressed, she would tell me to go outside until I stopped feeling depressed. Somehow the sunshine, fresh air and my dogs managed to keep my from killing myself.


15 posted on 12/18/2007 1:30:20 PM PST by bpjam (Harry Reid doesn't even have 32% of my approval)
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To: neverdem

ping


16 posted on 12/18/2007 1:35:04 PM PST by servantboy777
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To: jim_trent
Since this charge has been laid on anti-depressives, parents all over the country have stopped giving their kids those drugs or prevented them from being prescribed at all — and the number of suicides in that age group have gone up. What is the solution, then?

Close follow up when these drugs, SSRIs, are started, or the dose is increased. Maybe testing.

ANTIDEPRESSANT CASUALTIES

17 posted on 12/18/2007 1:43:43 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem
C’mon, give the kids a break! After all it’s Christmas and after all they ARE orphans.
18 posted on 12/18/2007 1:46:20 PM PST by aroundabout
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To: YOUGOTIT
I really do not care about the drugs if that was so then the drunks would not be libel when they commit murder on the street.

The state doen't mandate getting drunk. This was a state mandated psychosis when he killed, IMHO.

19 posted on 12/18/2007 1:46:29 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem

Let’s properly distinguish between SSRI’s for children, on the one hand, and SSRI’s for adults, on the other.

I have personal experience with the almost miraculous benefits of SSRI’s for adults who are severely depressed. Now, if you want to argue that the benefits do not justify the risk of side effects ... tell that to someone who has been saved from emotional misery, and possibly suicide, by these drugs.


20 posted on 12/18/2007 1:53:15 PM PST by dinoparty
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To: neverdem

A somewhat misleading headline because the issue the Supreme Court is being asked to rule upon has nothing to do with Zoloft or other SSRIs. The only issue before the Court is whether a 30-year sentence is cruel and unusual for a 12-year-old.


21 posted on 12/18/2007 1:56:28 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: aroundabout
C’mon, give the kids a break! After all it’s Christmas and after all they ARE orphans.

IIRC, his parents are alive. He was staying with the paternal grandparents. He was on a different SSRI, then switched to Zoloft and then just had the dose increased a day or two before he killed them in a state mandated psychosis, IMHO. Call it mania if that makes you happy. I guess you don't believe in adverse drug reactions.

22 posted on 12/18/2007 1:56:38 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem

What kind of feelings are these drugs supposed to suppress?


23 posted on 12/18/2007 1:59:04 PM PST by Haddit (Hunter is still the Best)
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To: cinives; All

What never gets discussed in theses threades is that ANY class of anti-depressants in their “boost phase” can cause an increased risk of suicide, homicidal behavior and unmasking of underlying mania.

As the anti-deppressant takes effect, the depressed person’s mood energy and ability to mobilize oneself to inner directed action increases. Two weeks into therapy, one had better be in a supportive therapeutic atmosphere, group, family, psychologist or otherwise for at that point a person who has been suicidal in the past may actually have gained the psychic cajones to follow through...especailly if there is some type of set back or upset experienced by that person at the time.

Now what is especially dangerous about these drugs is the unmasking of underlying mania,psychoses, or schizophrenia kept hidden by depression. The anti-depressant alleviates the depressed mood, which may have come about by the individual spending a lot of mental effort in suppressing his increasingly diseased thought processes and irrational urges. The individual, in a falsely “amped up mood” then loses control of his inner tormented state and all hell can break loose.

Certainly, folks can have bizzare reactions to drugs out-side of any other schizoidal disease which may not even be present...but what is more likely is that the anti-depressants simply unmask what is more complicated mental illness other than simply “depression”!

Respectfully Submitted,
Michael Mathis RN


24 posted on 12/18/2007 2:00:21 PM PST by mdmathis6
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To: dinoparty
Let’s properly distinguish between SSRI’s for children, on the one hand, and SSRI’s for adults, on the other.

Look up serotonin syndrome. It's not age specific from what I have read in the professional literature. I'm a doc with an interest in adverse drug reactions. Beware of what you find on the net. I'm glad you had good results. Not everyone does.

25 posted on 12/18/2007 2:06:22 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: Haddit

The symptoms of severe depression...

Such as, for instance, the feeling that the world is crashing down around you; the inability to function without a constant state of fear/panic; utter despair; emotional anguish.


26 posted on 12/18/2007 2:12:48 PM PST by dinoparty
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To: Lurking Libertarian
A somewhat misleading headline because the issue the Supreme Court is being asked to rule upon has nothing to do with Zoloft or other SSRIs. The only issue before the Court is whether a 30-year sentence is cruel and unusual for a 12-year-old.

AP needs a headline, not an explanation of why SSRIs cause some folks to kill in a psychotic state of mind. I guess his lawyers figure a cruel and unusual angle is his only hope.

27 posted on 12/18/2007 2:14:36 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: Haddit
What kind of feelings are these drugs supposed to suppress?

major depressive e.(episode)

[DSM-IV] a period of daily and day-long depressed mood or loss of interest or pleasure in virtually all activities; in children or adolescents the mood may be irritable. Also present is some combination of the following symptoms: altered appetite, weight, or sleep patterns, psychomotor agitation or retardation, diminished capacity for thinking, concentration, or decisiveness, lack of energy and fatigue, feelings of worthlessness, self-reproach, or inappropriate guilt, recurrent thoughts of death or suicide, and plans or attempts to commit suicide.

Antidepressants as a general rule function as stimulants. Some folks can't handle them.

P.S. That's a link to a well respected medical dictionary that you might want to save.

28 posted on 12/18/2007 2:30:03 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem

Actually I misread it and thought he did kill his parents. The rest was a joke.


29 posted on 12/18/2007 2:48:39 PM PST by aroundabout
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To: neverdem

Actually I misread it and thought he did kill his parents. The rest was a joke.


30 posted on 12/18/2007 2:48:44 PM PST by aroundabout
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To: bpjam
Its way easier to just pop a pill than to have to spend the hours trying to work with your kid to get them the necessary exercise, nutrition and mental activity necessary to prevent (insert your mental illness here).

That's not going to do a thing about severe depression, or a host of other mental illnesses.

31 posted on 12/18/2007 3:25:20 PM PST by Strategerist
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To: Always Right

There are not as many cases like this as you might imagine.


32 posted on 12/18/2007 4:04:45 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Strategerist; bpjam
Avoiding the use of medication you find folks having their young children rolled up in rugs and then suffocated to death.

Amateur spiritism is simply not effective in the ace of most of the problems it's tried against.

If you need a doctor, get a doctor, not a shaman.

33 posted on 12/18/2007 4:07:57 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: jim_trent

In Moscow Idaho, there was a guy coming down off of lithium, he killed his wife, shot up the sheriffs office, some officers, a church care taker, the church and then himself...

http://www.spokesman.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=9959


34 posted on 12/18/2007 4:53:30 PM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: El Gato; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; Dianna; ...
Faster Chips Are Leaving Programmers in Their Dust

Father causes bird flu scare at airport

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list.

35 posted on 12/18/2007 10:08:38 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: neverdem
In other news depressed people may act out hurting themselves or others! Lawyers then blame everything and everyone but their clients.

Chronic depression and bipolar disorder both have physiological components based on levels of and response to certain neurotransmitters. Of course hormones and behavior also matter.

Do certain individuals, long pacified by a lack of seritonin, become manic and then violent when given a too high dose? Yes.
Do certain individuals become very depressed and a danger to themselves and other when abruptly coming off medication? Certainly.

36 posted on 12/18/2007 10:31:32 PM PST by rmlew (Build a wall, attrit the illegals, end the anchor babies, Americanize Immigrants)
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To: neverdem; AdmSmith; Berosus; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...

The court changed its mind due to depression. Thanks ND.


37 posted on 12/18/2007 10:33:21 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Profile updated Tuesday, December 18, 2007___________________https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: neverdem
Look up serotonin syndrome.

Are you suggesting that there are even infrequent AEs of serotonin syndrome which are caused by SSRIs? That would be big news. You casually and causally link them implicitly in your imperative statement. There is no such causal link which has been established to my knowledge. Further, the occurence of serotonin sydrome (even in patients taking SSRIs) is not so much as to even make the RARE (less than 1 in 1000) AEs for Prozac, Zoloft and Celexa (the first three I looked at the PIs for).

38 posted on 12/19/2007 1:31:52 AM PST by the808bass
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To: muawiyah

Are you trying to tell me something specifically related to anything I said? I don’t recall suggesting that anybody visit a Shaman.

If you are saying that drugs are the alternative to suffocating your kid, I’m either going to question your sanity or just suggest that your comparison is a straw man and a sad one at that.

Look, I can understand your personal discomfort if you are taking these drugs to see people commenting negatively about them. But the person who posted this thread, IS a doctor. Are you going to accuse him of being into amateur spritualism or is it just me?

Honestly, I have no idea why you think I’m into putting kids in rugs. I’m not Catholic and I don’t practice exorcisms (incorrectly). I think I mentioned things like exercise, nutrition and mental activity. Not sure how we got from there to where you are at. But even in your worst case scenario, I’ve heard of one kid suffocated in a rug while I’ve seen probably a hundred people shot by kids on SSRIs in malls, schoolyards and workplaces across the country. So maybe amateur spritualism WOULD be a better alternative since it doesn’t cause people to run around killing strangers.


39 posted on 12/19/2007 10:30:57 AM PST by bpjam (Harry Reid doesn't even have 32% of my approval)
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To: rmlew

What other drugs can you name which cause people to run off and kill strangers en masse?

If hundreds or thousands of people died because of Bextra or Vioxx, at least only the people who took them died. How do we justify drugs which cause people not just killing themselves but also their family members and total strangers? With the amount of money companies like Lilly spend in politics, its unlikely the FDA is going to treat these drugs like they treat any other drugs which kill people. So trial lawyers end up being the last line of defense unfortunately.

Medically, it is not even know exactly how SSRIs work. I don’t say this out of ignorance. I’ve actually spoken personally with clinical research physicians who work on them for the pharmas and they readily admit that they don’t know. And they don’t know why the side effects are created and have no idea which people will react in which way because this is slightly better than shuffling the cards to try to get a better hand - you don’t know if you will get a better hand, a worse one or one which is just as bad but entirely different.

For all of the people who are, you can’t say cured since there is no such thing with SSRIs, helped you can also find people who have other side effects which would normally be considered mental illnesses themselves. It is just a matter of whether the people likes the new set of symptoms over their old set. But even if there were 5 cases of ‘cures’ for every case where somebody wanted to kill themselves, would this pass FDA approval if it were a heart medication?

You might also find that people who are given these drugs (mostly by people who aren’t experience or educated in doing so) are getting some of the worst medical care out there. If you can’t spot an alcoholic, you shouldn’t be prescribing SSRIs for depression. And try getting somebody off of Lithium or Haldol compared to meth, cocaine or heroine. The latter are a breeze and they don’t freak out while they are doing it. I’d much rather have somebody come to be on crack than on Prozac. At least I know what the crack addict will be going through but I have to be ready for anything on the psychoactive scripts.


40 posted on 12/19/2007 10:42:47 AM PST by bpjam (Harry Reid doesn't even have 32% of my approval)
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To: bpjam
There are doctors, and then there are quacks, and there are even "killer docs". How in the heck am I supposed to tell the difference among them on the internet when all we have is their claim for their status (although I haven't seen any of them claim to be quacks).

Yup, folks use modern medicines; other folks visit root workers, shamen, witch doctors, Scientologists, and so forth.

Take your pick.

Mental and emotional problems of a most serious nature existed long before the development of Prozac, et al, and they'll be around in the future. The modern drugs do help a large percentage of the afflicted better cope with the problems.

41 posted on 12/19/2007 5:02:40 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: MD_Willington_1976
Hmm, there's a bunch of guys in New Mexico, Mexico and Texas who live along the Rio Grande river and they don't commit violent crimes at the same rate found elsewhere in America and Mexico.

The Rio flows through country rich in carbonate rocks of all sorts ~ including lithium carbonate.

Water coming right out of the tap is apparantly sufficiently rich in the stuff to help hundreds of thousands of people who would otherwise be afflicted with some degree of schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder.

42 posted on 12/19/2007 5:05:45 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: neverdem
Look up serotonin syndrome. It's not age specific from what I have read in the professional literature. I'm a doc with an interest in adverse drug reactions. Beware of what you find on the net. I'm glad you had good results. Not everyone does.

You've read my post on SSRI's before I think. The doctors are no where near careful enough prescribing them. Look at even a GP's office these days and you'll see a Pharm Rep likely even two from the same company with the same drugs. Serotonin Syndrome is a reality. Even the most timid can be a harm to others or themselves in that stste. What the poor soul who goes through it hallucinates about is their reality. I saw it twice in a week in the same person and 6 clueless doctors including two shrinks.

Thanks to some FR posters and some prayer I typed in Zoloft +Trazodone +Adverse reaction and got the answer I needed in seconds. It saved my wife's life. If any patient has any form of motor sensory damage they seem to be more prone for some reason. I nearly went there myself as I have GAD of Vestibular Disorder origin. IOW Motor and sensory processing damage. My Inner Ears re shot, I have Menieres, and Tinnitus too boot plus a life long eye /muscle coordination issues. I finally found a sympathetic doctor who got me on the right maintenance dosage of Xanax. The ones insisting on SSRI therapy nearly did me in.

43 posted on 12/19/2007 5:27:13 PM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: cva66snipe

Xanax is what got “W”’s niece in trouble.


44 posted on 12/19/2007 5:31:25 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
Xanax is what got “W”’s niece in trouble.

k the basics on Xanax. Most doctors are clueless as to how to prescribe it and simply make matters worse. Many prescribe 1-2mG twice a day. Heres the problem it has a 6-8 hour active life. Meaning for the rest of the time you have nothing and will have a major crash in between. It's also a good risk for addiction. However a .25mg-.5 {depending on persons build} pill taken 3-4 times per day gives a consistent but small level in the blood stream and helps tone down sensory flooding a major cause of Anxiety Disorder. My wife has taken it for 22 years I have taken it for 14 years with no ill effects.

My wife got in trouble because a doctor to try and treat her for PTSD {over a doctors medication mistake with a pain killer that pout her in a Coma} was given Trazodone the Zoloft as well. As I posted persons with Motor or sensory damage are at higher risk. She is an incomplete quadriplegic. The amount of Xanax she was taking a very low dosage likely kept the serotonin syndrome from killing her. Benzos are the counter agent to it.

BTW she had to be tied down to a hospital bed because she was beating herself black and blue. She was also seeing Satan at one point. She as well thought she was Tess on Touched by an angel. My wife and I are white BTW LOL.

It was a week of pure hell for both of us. Even when I figured it out the doctors would not believe it calling it junk science. He had to back down when I pointed out it was his hospitals pharmacology professor who wrote the paper. Same university different city. Every medical indication including being in a partial COMA in the ER from it begged for a closer look. None was given. Accute pyschosis increase her Zoloft was the order.

You can check my posting history on antidepressants. I used to call those questioning their usage tinfoilers. I did till I saw it myself. I am not anti SSRI. But I do think there needs to be some education of medical professionals and patients as well as their families.

45 posted on 12/19/2007 5:53:56 PM PST by cva66snipe (Proud Partisan Constitution Supporting Conservative to which I make no apologies for nor back down)
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To: muawiyah

Now that’s an interesting post...perhaps much of our nation’s issues stem from a deficiency in these natural carbonates. I mean much of our nation’s water supplies come from filtered and highly clorinated municipal water systems and the explosion of the usage of bottled water. Many homes on wells use water softeners, there by reducing natural carbonates as well.


46 posted on 12/19/2007 5:57:09 PM PST by mdmathis6
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To: cva66snipe
Another testimonial to the need for physicians and other diagnosticians to very carefully differentiate between neurological and cerebral disorders before prescribing psychoactive or other drugs that have an impact on nervous tissue or systems.

I'd like to add that proctologists should verify that their patient has no relatives with diagnosed celiac before using a colonoscope on 'em.

47 posted on 12/19/2007 5:57:39 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: mdmathis6
North America is supposed to be so short of strontium that it has to be added to the feed for African origin animals in zoos.
48 posted on 12/19/2007 5:59:57 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: the808bass; rmlew
"Are you suggesting that there are even infrequent AEs of serotonin syndrome which are caused by SSRIs? That would be big news. You casually and causally link them implicitly in your imperative statement. There is no such causal link which has been established to my knowledge. Further, the occurence of serotonin sydrome (even in patients taking SSRIs) is not so much as to even make the RARE (less than 1 in 1000) AEs for Prozac, Zoloft and Celexa (the first three I looked at the PIs for)."

You can't make the diagnosis if you don't know it exists. I saw a patient in the hospital on multiple antidepressants complaining of palpitations with an abnormaly fast heart rate, a supraventricular tachycardia. I didn't know about serotonin sydrome at the time, but I could check with the pharmacy and find that a number of her meds can cause tachycardia. I called her shrink who insisted that the patient had to remain on her meds even though she was symptomatic.

A Mix of Medicines That Can Be Lethal my thread

A Mix of Medicines That Can Be Lethal the NY Times printer friendly version

The Serotonin Syndrome pdf link to the NEJM article

The incidence of the serotonin syndrome is thought to mirror the increasing number of proserotonergic agents being used in clinical practice. 7 In 2002, the Toxic Exposure Surveillance System, which receives case descriptions from office-based practices, inpatient settings, and emergency departments, reported 26,733 incidences of exposure to selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) that caused significant toxic effects in 7349 persons and resulted in 93 deaths. 8,9 The assessment of the serotonin syndrome in therapeutic drug dosing has relied on post-marketing surveillance studies, one of which identified an incidence of 0.4 case per 1000 patient-months for patients who were taking nefazodone. 10 Performing a rigorous epidemiologic assessment of the serotonin syndrome, however, is difficult, since more than 85 percent of physicians are unaware of the serotonin syndrome as a clinical diagnosis. 10 The syndrome occurs in approximately 14 to 16 percent of persons who overdose on SSRIs. 8

49 posted on 12/19/2007 7:57:07 PM PST by neverdem (Call talk radio. We need a Constitutional Amendment for Congressional term limits. Let's Roll!)
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To: muawiyah

You seem to have some kind of deep seated problem with somebody or something. But nothing I know is based on witch doctors or ‘root workers(?)’.

I don’t know what you are trying to imply with this list unless you think all of these groups have something in common. And they don’t have anything to do with pharmaceuticals.

I’m not a doctor. I don’t claim to be one myself. I was a director of a nationally accredited drug rehabilitation center. As part of my accreditation, I had to study addictionology as well as pharmacology. I’ve had to get people off of virtually every drug you’ve ever heard of. I have real life personal experience with all of them including most psychotropics.

But these drugs were prescribed to kids by real doctors. doctors who have licenses and DEA approval to prescribe controlled substances. And these kids become suicidal and homicidal - something they were not before they were put on these drugs.

Did you know that Eli Lilly did a trial of Prozac in Britian back in the 1980s before they submitted it to the FDA for approval where 14 of the trial subjects killed themselves? They didn’t submit THAT to the FDA. But suicide IS on one of the side effects of the drug. Its not like you can take a beta blocker or an anti-imflammatory and start thinking about killing yourself.

And I defy any expert to publicly prove there is a difference between a half dozen of the most popular conditions listed in the DSM IV. There can’t possibly be thousands of mental illnesses if none of them can be medically distinguished or proven by a medical to exist.

But even if I were a witch or a Scientologist, nothing
would be any different and none of these dead people would come back to life. I never heard of witches, Scientologists, shaman or any root workers out killing people in a mall or an elementary school.

To call this ‘modern’ is irrelevant. Just because its new doesn’t mean it is medically valid or healthy. In fact, most of the things medical doctors have historically given people to cure mental ills have been either lethal, like mercury, or just pain harmful like lithium or thorazine.


50 posted on 12/19/2007 10:42:32 PM PST by bpjam (Harry Reid doesn't even have 32% of my approval)
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