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Why does the GOP Establishment fear Huck?
Belief Net ^ | 12/18/2007 | Rod Dreher

Posted on 12/20/2007 9:12:14 AM PST by Ol' Sparky

Why does the GOP Establishment fear Huck?

Juan Cole's got a bad case of left-wing Huckenfreude:

I simply can not tell you how much I am enjoying this. The GOP has been pandering to these stupid bastards for years, and every time I pointed it out I was called “anti-Christian” or something or other. Those of us who saw what the party was becoming were told to shut up, that it was good politics.

Enjoy your new GOP, folks. And here is something else to think about- are the evangelicals going to support Romney or Giuliani if you do manage to trash Huckabee enough to secure the nomination for them? Will the eye for an eye crowd learn to forgive and forget? Have fun!

But that's not why the GOP Establishment is panicking. They're panicking because a) Huckabee is a wild card who could lose massively in the general election; b) Huckabee doesn't owe any of them anything; and c) Huckabee's rise shows how badly, perhaps irretrievably, the fusionist settlement (uniting social and economic conservatives) has broken down, leaving the GOP in a shambles.

It's funny, but when it looked like Rudy Giuliani, a social liberal, was going to be the nominee, we didn't see many, if any, establishment Republican opinion leaders freaking out over what kind of danger to the future of the party and the nation he represented, even though as Ross points out, Giuliani hasn't exactly been deep on policy (I had to research Giuliani for our Dallas Morning News editorial board debate on which candidate to endorse, and I was genuinely startled by how vague he was on many things). I think it's fair to say that it was assumed that Giuliani would be a sound representative of the Republican Party, and that the social and religious conservatives would do like they always do and get in line. Pat Robertson sure did.

But lo, it turns out that the candidate who's caught fire comes straight out of the religious/social conservative wing of the coalition, and he is unsound on issues most important to the fiscal wing. It's not supposed to work that way. Nobody at the elite level seems to expect the economic conservatives to suck it up for the sake of party unity. What does that say about the place of social conservatives in the party all these years?

I don't want to overdo this. I think it's perfectly fine to be worried about Huckabee's vagueness, and his unpreparedness. I'm worried about these things too, which is a big reason why I can't say I'd vote for him (though honestly, any Republican who finds himself worked up over Huckabee's lack of knowledge about foreign affairs, say, should ask himself if he felt the same way about Gov. Bush in 1999 and 2000, and if not, why not). Still, it's hard to shake the belief that the real problem with Mike Huckabee, as far as the establishment is concerned, is that he's not clubbable.

Reader Conor writes on this topic:

I really don't think it is because he is a Christian Evangelical who believes to the core of his person. I don't think it is because he is a Christian Evangelical through and through and is the equivalent of Pat Robertson winning. I think it is that he is a populist and he is a hell of a better politician than any of the other folks at the top of the tier. Sure Huckabee is trying to squeeze the Evangelicals for all they are worth, but there is more to him than that. I really think this is the piece that too many are missing by focusing in on the fact that he is a Baptist minister, Christian Leader, etc.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; 2008election; christianvote; conservativebase; dreher; evangelicals; huckabee; insurgents; republicanparty; socialconservatives; theestablishment; valuesvoters
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1 posted on 12/20/2007 9:12:15 AM PST by Ol' Sparky
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To: Ol' Sparky

The same reason we “fear” any liberal.


2 posted on 12/20/2007 9:13:47 AM PST by inkling (exurbanleague.com)
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To: Ol' Sparky

The GOP establishment fears that, should Huckabee actually win the nomination, they will lose the White House.

Legitimate concern, IMHO.


3 posted on 12/20/2007 9:14:21 AM PST by Jedidah
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To: Ol' Sparky

I don’t fear Huck...I just don’t trust him.


4 posted on 12/20/2007 9:15:24 AM PST by donnab (saving liberal brains...one moron at a time.)
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To: Ol' Sparky

When did the headline writer stop beating his wife?


5 posted on 12/20/2007 9:16:04 AM PST by pogo101
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To: Ol' Sparky
I simply can not tell you how much I am enjoying this. The GOP has been pandering to these stupid bastards for years, and every time I pointed it out I was called “anti-Christian” or something or other. Those of us who saw what the party was becoming were told to shut up, that it was good politics.
____________________________________________________

Imagine a democrat writing this about blacks. The author makes an assumption that evangelicals support Huckabee. To be honest I have formed an opinion yet, but I will not for any politician that talks out of both sides of his mouth. A liar is the very worst thing.

6 posted on 12/20/2007 9:17:29 AM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: donnab

I hate headlines like this. I don’t like him. I dont know WHY, but, I don’t “fear” anyone.


7 posted on 12/20/2007 9:17:29 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: Ol' Sparky
The MSM would love to see the evangelicals sit out this election.

The GOP will dump Slick Mickey
because he is a liberal triangulator
and the MSM will try to convince evangelicals that
Huckabee was dumped
because he is too religious.

8 posted on 12/20/2007 9:19:10 AM PST by syriacus ( 30,000 Americans died in 30 months in Korea under Truman, who had abandoned S Korea in 1949.)
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To: Ol' Sparky

Because Huck is the Second Coming of . . . . Jimmah Carter?!


9 posted on 12/20/2007 9:19:19 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian
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To: Ol' Sparky
Social conservatives are like the GOP's blacks. They're patted on the head, thrown a few crumbs and told to stay in their place if they know what's best for them. Lo and behold - they aren't obeying the rules and the GOP establishment is in a panic. They weren't bothered by Guiliani even though he's as liberal as Huckabee since he doesn't sound like a religious fanatic. They're okay with liberal Republicans who keep God and faith safely tucked away in the closet. That's why Huckabee bothers them so much. He keeps talking all that God stuff up.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

10 posted on 12/20/2007 9:19:34 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: donnab

Huck is a loser...at least 40 percent of the Republican traditional base of voters...won’t vote for the guy. I can just sit here and imagine November of next year...the screen has seven red states, and 43 blue states. Huck loses big-time...and we all sit there and wonder why we had to pick Huck, and the only answer comes from the Baptists in the Republican party telling us that we needed the “right” kind of leader. Its simply not fear...its what will happen in eleven months that we really dislike.


11 posted on 12/20/2007 9:19:38 AM PST by pepsionice
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To: Ol' Sparky
The GOP establishment loves him. We the people don't want anything to do with him.
12 posted on 12/20/2007 9:20:11 AM PST by cripplecreek (Only one consistent conservative in this race and his name is Hunter.)
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To: Jedidah
The GOP establishment fears that, should Huckabee actually win the nomination, they will lose the White House.

It should have the same fear about Giuliani and Romney. Giuliani splits the party and is unelectable. Romney has a Mormon problem, is a flip-flopper with a social liberal past and is also unelectable.

13 posted on 12/20/2007 9:20:44 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: ThisLittleLightofMine
To be honest I have formed an opinion yet, but I will not for any politician that talks out of both sides of his mouth. A liar is the very worst thing.

That means you definitely Romney and Giuliani as well?

14 posted on 12/20/2007 9:22:28 AM PST by Ol' Sparky (Liberal Republicans are the greater of two evils)
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To: Ol' Sparky

This Baptist will not vote for Huck. I don’t carry the White Guilt he does.


15 posted on 12/20/2007 9:22:34 AM PST by Sybeck1 (Huckabee - Our Sanjaya!)
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To: inkling

Sadly, there isn’t a Republican candidate that doesn’t fit that label.


16 posted on 12/20/2007 9:23:03 AM PST by Deut28 (Cursed be he who perverts the justice)
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To: Ol' Sparky

Good article. The only type of candidate that can unite the party is a fiscal AND a social conservative. Money and attention shouldn’t go to anyone that doesn’t meet that criteria because they are a loser.


17 posted on 12/20/2007 9:23:58 AM PST by Greg F (Duncan Hunter is a good man.)
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To: Ol' Sparky
"Why does the GOP Establishment fear Huck?"

I don't know about the GOP, but I fear Huck because he's about the only one running for the GOP nomination who Hillary can easily trounce in the Presidential Election of 2008.

Watch as the Main Stream Media tries to convince the Republican Party that Huckabee is their best choice for President, and remember that no one should ever take advice from their enemies.

18 posted on 12/20/2007 9:24:33 AM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: Ol' Sparky

Don’t fear anyone, just know a con job when I see it. And know a liberal when I see and hear then as well.


19 posted on 12/20/2007 9:25:35 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: Ol' Sparky

No ‘fear’ here. I just find him to be a typical Arkansas politician, and as such I can’t support him.

Personally, I don’t fear anything that walks.


20 posted on 12/20/2007 9:26:53 AM PST by Badeye (No thanks, Huck, I'm not whitewashing the fence for you this election cycle)
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To: DJ Taylor
The MSM is convinced a Christian candidate is foaming at mouth, stupid, bigoted and and easy to discredit. Or so they think.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

21 posted on 12/20/2007 9:27:25 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Ol' Sparky
I'd certainly vote for Huck over any of the three Dems.

But the guy is a sure loser.

22 posted on 12/20/2007 9:27:49 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Ol' Sparky

Weak on foreign affairs, wrong on the handling of the WOT, taxes, never met a criminal he did not want to pardon, casts stones from a glass house, mean spiteful little man, etc...


23 posted on 12/20/2007 9:28:40 AM PST by jrooney (Ron Paul makes Jimmy Carter look tough and Dennis Kucinich look sane.)
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To: donnab

Exactly.


24 posted on 12/20/2007 9:28:48 AM PST by freekitty ((May the eagles long fly our beautiful and free American sky.))
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To: Ol' Sparky
It's funny, but when it looked like Rudy Giuliani, a social liberal, was going to be the nominee, we didn't see many, if any, establishment Republican opinion leaders freaking out over what kind of danger to the future of the party and the nation he represented.

Bull.

25 posted on 12/20/2007 9:30:19 AM PST by jdm
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To: Ol' Sparky

Fred’s the answer.


26 posted on 12/20/2007 9:31:15 AM PST by Jedidah
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To: Ol' Sparky

How can you trust a man that says he will require Illegal Aliens go home and get in the back of the line to return to America? Then, on Fox News says that it shouldn’t take more than a couple of hours or days.


27 posted on 12/20/2007 9:32:17 AM PST by Haddit (Hunter is still the Best)
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To: Ol' Sparky
I like Rod, the token conservative on the editorial board of the Dallas Morning News. I've corresponded with him on many occasions, and I generally find him to be a reasonable sort.

However, be advised that he jumped off the bandwagon on Iraq about a year ago, and I haven't seen him say anything good about the surge. It's obvious that he's been beaten down by Bush Derangement Syndrome coming from the other staffers at the DMN.

Huckabee's 15 minute clock has about 7 minutes left. His hiring of Ed Rollins spoke even more volumes about his (lack of) viability.

I've been wrong before, but I think we're going to find out that Huck peaked about three weeks too early.

For the record, I am a Fredhead.

28 posted on 12/20/2007 9:35:41 AM PST by Night Hides Not (Chuck Hagel makes Joe Biden look like a statesman!)
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To: inkling
Yep, We fear the Huckster for the same reason we fear any other liberal like a Hillary Clinton, a Stalin, a Chavez.

What does it matter that the Huckster says he is a good Christian and pro-life when Huckabee will turn the U.S,. into a socialist state where we will all be starving?

Huckabee Begs For New Taxes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pLOC4krZI4

Huckabee Caught Lying About His Tax Hikes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYrGlfkvRV0&feature=related

Huckabee is a pro-illegal, pro-Amnesty, tax raising, big government loving, socialist/liberal, violent criminal pardoning, terrorist appeasing, false prophet. In other words Huckabee is really a Democrat.

Under no circumstances will I ever vote for this liberal/communist con man.

The Huckster Huckabee or Hillary will let in hundreds of millions of 3rd world socialist illegals.

The Huckster or Hillary will surrender to Iran and let Iran build a nuclear arsenal.

The Huckster or Hillary will raise taxes and increase the size of government putting the U.S. on the road to socialism which will destroy our way of life, destroy our economy, destroy our civilization.

If you think I'm exaggerating look at Huckabee's record and into the dangers of socialism.

But hey , the idiot Huckster lies and says he is pro-life so that makes all of this ok huh?

Mike Huckabee disses Americans, Mexicans, promotes illegal immigration

http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/005609.html

Christians Need To Beware Of Mike Huckabee

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071102.html

While Gov. of Arkansas, Huckabee was AGAINST proving citizenship in order to register to vote. He called those who were in favor of this “racists”..

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050218/news_lz1e18perkins.html

Huckabee fought hard to kill an Arkansas bill which would have cut off social services for illegal aliens. Huckabee called the bill, “anti-Christian” and “un-American”...

http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/01/28/News/316347.html

Huckabee supported in-state tuition for illegal aliens...

http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2005/03/11/News/318458.html

Huckabee’s opposition to the illegal aliens bill:

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000718.html

Chuck the Huck and his striped shirts:


29 posted on 12/20/2007 9:36:41 AM PST by rurgan (socialism doesn't work. Government is the problem not the solution to our problems.)
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To: inkling
Yes, especially since Huck is unabashedly and actually RUNNING as a liberal, of course sane members of the GOP would rather he was not nominated.
30 posted on 12/20/2007 9:37:32 AM PST by roses of sharon
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To: Ol' Sparky
I really don't think it is because he is a Christian Evangelical who believes to the core of his person.

Actually that is the reason RINOs fear him. Most of them are atheists.

31 posted on 12/20/2007 9:39:37 AM PST by palmer
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To: Ol' Sparky
The Republican party has always had two factions ~ first there are the Social Conservatives ~ many are Evangelical, many are Holy Roller, and a whole big bunch of them are Roman Catholic.

The other bunch are called "Countryclub Republicans". They think they are the "Establishment" but they're not ~ actually, they are a small minority within the Republican party, and where they could actually get elected to office, fewer and fewer of them have done so over the last 4 decades.

Their choice is to go with the Social Conservatives or be destroyed by the Neo-fascist Left through ruinous taxation and regulation.

32 posted on 12/20/2007 9:39:45 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: goldstategop

How so?

Who are the candidates the social conservatives wanted to be the nominee in elections or primaries, and were “thrown crumbs” instead?


33 posted on 12/20/2007 9:42:49 AM PST by roses of sharon
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To: Ol' Sparky
The same fear I would have for any left-wing pro al-Qaeda Democrat. He is a loser when the national election comes up and I will not vote for anyone who frees rapist and murderers which he has done several times, or someone who talks like the war on terror is not necessary. There can be NO peace without victory.
34 posted on 12/20/2007 9:42:52 AM PST by YOUGOTIT (The Greatest Threat to our Security is the US Senate)
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To: muawiyah
They look down on social conservatives as a backward form of conservative tainted by religious fervor. Fiscal conservatives think the only thing conservatives should do is shrink government, lower taxes and where they side with libertarians - get the hell out people's personal lives and their bedrooms. So there's conflict between the two groups of conservatives.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

35 posted on 12/20/2007 9:43:40 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Jedidah
That should be changed to read:

"The GOP establishment fears that, should Huckabee actually win the nomination, they will lose access to the White House."

36 posted on 12/20/2007 9:44:52 AM PST by Juan Medén
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To: Ol' Sparky

They got it all wrong, we don’t “fear” Huckabee, we don’t “care for” Huckabee, who uses Christ as a political tool. Huckabee who has made a living off of tithes and taxpayer money. Huckabee , is educated in theology from a Baptist College, and he doesn’t even know anything about anything.


37 posted on 12/20/2007 9:44:56 AM PST by AmericanMade1776
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To: Ol' Sparky

Because he might get elected and he owes those scoundrels nothing - GO HUCK !!!


38 posted on 12/20/2007 9:46:06 AM PST by Scythian
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To: donnab
It’s a twofer.
39 posted on 12/20/2007 9:46:21 AM PST by fireforeffect (A kind word and a 2x4, gets you more than just a kind word.)
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To: Jedidah

Very legitimate.


40 posted on 12/20/2007 9:46:45 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: Ol' Sparky

In my opinion, you are wrong. Mr. Romney can pull all factions of the GOP together. That’s why he has my support.


41 posted on 12/20/2007 9:51:25 AM PST by GOP_Lady
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To: AmericanMade1776

In a political ad, EVERYING IS SCRUTINZED and nothing is overlooked. Remember that everyone.


42 posted on 12/20/2007 9:54:53 AM PST by GOP_Lady
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To: Ol' Sparky

The Huckster’s Christianity isn’t what bothers me. His socialism worries me, just like I’m worried about Rudy and Mitt’s socialism. I worry about Mike’s sincerity and character, but no more than I worry about the other goonies that want to hang themselves around our necks.


43 posted on 12/20/2007 9:55:16 AM PST by pallis
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To: muawiyah

I think the Social Conservatives have had factions for years. Those who are pro-life and don’t care about any other aspect of society, and those who are pro-life and do care. I figure that the establishment he speaks of never realized that one part of the group they took for granted will vote on this one issue alone without considering the disaster this candidate is for society. I don’t fear the man. I have a firm belief that he will either drop faster in the polls than he rose, or that God has decided to punish this country.


44 posted on 12/20/2007 9:56:27 AM PST by Ingtar (The LDS problem that Romney is facing is not his religion, but his recent Liberal Definitive Stands.)
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To: Ol' Sparky
I don’t fear Mike Huckabee. I’ve had a chance to look at his record and I don’t like what I’ve seen. Plus he’s too SLICK.

A pro-life liberal kind of sums it up.

45 posted on 12/20/2007 9:58:12 AM PST by McGruff (A "Big Time" Fred Thompson supporter!)
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To: Ol' Sparky
It is completely correct to give fiscal conservative issues absolute priority over social conservative issues in governance.

This is illustrated by a simple game of "One Of These Things Doesn't Belong":

1. If you think pornography is degrading, you can simply decline to read it.
2. If you think that religious practice is important, you can simply do it.
3. If you think taxes are too high, you can simply refuse to pay them.
Now, class, which of these statements is false?
46 posted on 12/20/2007 10:01:49 AM PST by steve-b (Sin lies only in hurting others unnecessarily. All other "sins" are invented nonsense. --RAH)
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To: Ol' Sparky

People just don’t believe fundementalist Christians. They think you have to be crazy to REALLY believe that stuff.

Huck scares casual Protestant Christians, Catholics, the Jewish, Atheists, Agnostics, Secular Humanists, and others that have accomodated their beliefs to daily need. They think that Huck is either crazy or a lier, because they can’t admit the possibility that , not just Huck, but ANYBODY really believes their faith enough to live it.

He may be a charletan, He may be a cynical politician, He may, however, really live the teachings of his Bible. One way or another, it’s his religion that is spooking people, because his policies are consistant with it.


47 posted on 12/20/2007 10:03:47 AM PST by Soliton (Freddie T is the one for me! (c))
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To: syriacus

Boy, you hit that nail right on the head! But as well it’s true that when you look at the top three Dems and top three Repubs your looking at 6 Demopublicans.


48 posted on 12/20/2007 10:10:39 AM PST by glide625
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To: Ol' Sparky

Who says that we don’t fear Rudy nomination??

But at least Rudy is honest about his liberalism. Huck seems to believe that he was being conservative while he was raising taxes and appeasing the illegals.


49 posted on 12/20/2007 10:11:45 AM PST by bpjam (Harry Reid doesn't even have 32% of my approval)
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To: GOP_Lady
Mr. Romney can pull all factions of the GOP together.

There is a large portion of evangelicals who will not vote for Romney under any circumstances. A lot of conservatives will be turned off by his policies which are Giuliani-lite. If either of these groups have even relativley minor defections, all those states that Dubya squeaked by in 2004 with a unified base, Romney losses.

There is a reason why Romney is generally the weakest Republican candidate in the head-to-head matchups with the Democrat candidates. He turns off too much of the base and has little appeal to independents. At least, Giuliani picks up some independent support to offset the losses in the base.

50 posted on 12/20/2007 10:19:19 AM PST by CommerceComet
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