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Savior or Saboteur? (Clintons' inflict their eternal conjugal psychodrama)
The New York Times ^ | December 23, 2007 | MAUREEN DOWD

Posted on 12/22/2007 11:06:40 PM PST by Liz

--SNIP-- Inside the Bill gang and the Hillary gang, there is panic and perplexity. Is Bill a loyal spouse or a subconscious saboteur? “For the first time since the Marc Rich pardon,” said a friend of the Clintons, “Bill is seriously diminishing his personal standing with the people closest to him.” And certainly he feels that his legacy is tied to her. When Bill gets slit-eyed, red-faced and finger-wagging in defense of Hillary, is he really defending himself, ego in full bloom, against aspersions Obama and Edwards cast on Clintonian politics? Maybe the Boy Who Can’t Help Himself is simply engaging in his usual patterns of humiliating Hillary and lighting an exploding cigar when things are going well. If voting for Obama is a roll of the dice, as Bill suggests, voting for Billary is a sure bet: an endless soap opera.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bjclinton; clinton; democrats; hillary; hillarycare; shamnesty; stophillary
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“For the first time since the Marc Rich pardon, Bill is seriously diminishing his personal standing with the people closest to him.”

Huh? Say what? Only now "for the first time" since the Rich debacle his friends are seeing the real Bill? Man, those Dims sure are s-l-o-w to catch on.

Course, many if us are gratified the Mark Rich pardon atrocity is being revisited. History trashes Bill as the president who, in the dead of night, sneakily pardoned the scoundrel Mark Rich......Clinton never even told the US Dept of Justice what he was doing. Rich is a certified creep----the biggest tax cheat in US history who renounced his American citizenship, and absconded, to escape prosecution. Can't get any lower than that. Rich then used his ex-wife as the bagwoman to pump big bucks into the Clinton coffers to facilitate the pardon signing.

The Rich pardon remains one of the sorriest events in US history.

The only thing that could surpass the Rich pardon in sleaziness is Rudy Giuliani's possible pardon of mobbed-up Bernard Kerik. Kerik was Giuliani's bodyguard, driver, and Police Commisioner, in that order. Kerik flopped bigtime as Rudy's hand-picked Homeland nominee and is now facing federal charges for official corruption, filing false income tax returns......and lying to the White House in connection with the Homeland job.

1 posted on 12/22/2007 11:06:42 PM PST by Liz
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To: Liz
Can't get any lower than that. Rich then used his ex-wife as the bagwoman to pump big bucks into the Clinton coffers to facilitate the pardon signing.

I'll bet she pumped more than that. LOL

Say, Merry Christmas Liz, you gorgeous creature you! ;)
2 posted on 12/22/2007 11:29:48 PM PST by mkjessup (Hunter-Bolton '08 !! Patriots who will settle for nothing less than *Victory* in the War on Terror!)
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To: Liz
One that stayed below the radar was Clinton’s brokered deal back in the 1990s between Rich and Alcoa to get raw materials at market prices. Guess who was CEO of Alcoa at the time???
3 posted on 12/22/2007 11:38:48 PM PST by gov_bean_ counter ( Who is America's George Galloway?)
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To: Liz; All

This is interesting from Dowd, in lieu of the comments made by Rush in the last couple of days. Rush’s contention is that Bubba is running for a 3rd term .. even though he’s not on the ballot. Thus .. the campaign has begun to bring up the past time in the WH (remember: 2 for 1).

My contention has always been that Bubba’s ego is so large, he would not be willing to share the same status - former president - with his wife. It is an exclusive club - and so far it’s “men” only.


4 posted on 12/22/2007 11:47:01 PM PST by CyberAnt (AMERICA: THE GREATEST FORCE for GOOD in the world!)
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To: Liz

Bubba was ALWAYS in it for the women.He just wants her in the WH so he can sleaze around more.


5 posted on 12/22/2007 11:49:06 PM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: originalbuckeye

Dowd must be the only broad that BJ turned down. I don’t think she likes the guy.


6 posted on 12/22/2007 11:51:44 PM PST by Soliton (Vote "next")
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To: Liz

Bill campaigning for Himmary is Bill without Snakehead Carville, Forehead Begala or Toemouth Morris making him bark like a trained seal. Without handlers, Bill is little more than ego, feigned empathy, and horn-dog lechery.


7 posted on 12/23/2007 12:17:15 AM PST by flowerplough (Ron Paul on War: "War is bad, mmm-kay. If you do war, you're bad. Mmm-kay?")
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To: Liz

I really like the subtitle. That’s not the Times’ doing, is it?


8 posted on 12/23/2007 1:40:40 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (whose spirit is hillary channelling these days?)
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To: Liz
“For the first time since the Marc Rich pardon, Bill is seriously diminishing his personal standing with the people closest to him.”

Not so. People who partied with him in the clubs up by the UN said he was a scumbag, too.

9 posted on 12/23/2007 1:44:23 AM PST by the invisib1e hand (whose spirit is hillary channelling these days?)
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To: Liz
THANK YOU for linking to the Printer Friendly version of the article.

Those of us trapped in 56K dialup HELL really appreciate it!

While making a speech in Iowa, The Associated Press’s Ron Fournier reported, Bill used the word “I” 94 times in 10 minutes, while mentioning “Hillary” just seven times. At a London fund-raiser, one Hillaryite said, it took him nearly half an hour to mention her.

He just can't help himself. He he!

10 posted on 12/23/2007 2:34:49 AM PST by upchuck (And Senator Clinton's experience is................................. where? What? When?)
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To: gov_bean_ counter
Guess who was CEO of Alcoa at the time???

I give up, who?

11 posted on 12/23/2007 2:42:24 AM PST by patj
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To: Liz

An ENDLESS SOAP OPERA!!! That’s what the 90’s were and now it’s BACK TO THE FUTURE!!


12 posted on 12/23/2007 2:48:06 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: patj

Wasn’t it Paul O’Neill?


13 posted on 12/23/2007 2:50:00 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Ann Archy

Yep, Mr. Paul O’Neill


14 posted on 12/23/2007 2:52:09 AM PST by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: Liz
Is Bill a loyal spouse or a subconscious saboteur?

Subconscious saboteur...

15 posted on 12/23/2007 3:09:17 AM PST by GOPJ (Drug dealers are NOT "unlicensed pharmacists" and illegals are NOT "undocumented workers". Bailey)
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To: Liz

16 posted on 12/23/2007 3:16:21 AM PST by AndrewB
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To: Liz

The truth is that Bill and Hitlery hate each other with a pure passion. The only stay together for what’s in it for them. As soon as “what I get vs what I give” tips under the 50% mark, they will try to kill each other.


17 posted on 12/23/2007 4:05:14 AM PST by AmericaUnited
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To: AndrewB

Thank you AndyB. You know the only reason most of us read Dowd columns here.


18 posted on 12/23/2007 4:37:58 AM PST by Reo
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To: AndrewB

Thank you too


19 posted on 12/23/2007 4:40:44 AM PST by ninonitti
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To: Liz
If voting for Obama is a roll of the dice, as Bill suggests, voting for Billary is a sure bet: an endless soap opera.

Why do you think daytime TV is so popular and magazines like the National Enquirer thrive? Like it or not, we are a celebrity and crisis (or celebrity in crisis) obsessed nation. This has spilled over into our politics.

Should Hillary get beaten in either the primary or general election, you can bet there will be a plethora of articles about how she would have won if she had washed her hands of Bill and stepped out as her own woman, free of his baggage.

As it is, although is very popular with some segments of the population, he is a huge millstone around her neck with others. He sabotages her whole message of "change and moving ahead". He even sabotages her message of "experience" because she is basing that message on being co-Presidents.

20 posted on 12/23/2007 4:40:47 AM PST by randita
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To: the invisib1e hand
People who partied with him in the clubs up by the UN said he was a scumbag, too

Met a guy who worked at Commerce under Brown who said they had to bring the jaws of life with them on trips to pry him off the women. Total junkie.

21 posted on 12/23/2007 4:44:16 AM PST by ninonitti
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To: the invisib1e hand

Glad you liked the subber.......just a teeny tiny bit of “help” from Maureen (grin).


22 posted on 12/23/2007 4:51:42 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: upchuck
While making a speech Bill used the word “I” 94 times in 10 minutes, while mentioning “Hillary” just seven times. At a London fund-raiser it took him nearly half an hour to mention her.

>

23 posted on 12/23/2007 4:57:10 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: Ann Archy

Paul O’Neill? Holy Cow!!, How the heck did he manage to do that job AND play right field for the Yankees?

The guy is really AWESOME!!


24 posted on 12/23/2007 5:08:09 AM PST by aroundabout
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To: Liz; MotleyGirl70; Cagey; Mr. Brightside; Rb ver. 2.0; lesser_satan; Taffini; jdm; countess; ...

***conjugal***

JERRY: Well, at least you probably had some, uh, pretty good make-up sex after.

GEORGE: I didn’t have any sex.

JERRY: You didn’t have make-up sex? How could you not have make-up sex? I mean that’s the best feature of the heavy relationship.

GEORGE: I didn’t have make-up sex.

JERRY: In your situation the only sex you’re going to have better than make-up sex is if you’re sent to prison and you have a conjugal visit.

GEORGE: Yeah, conjugal visit sex. That is happening!


25 posted on 12/23/2007 5:12:33 AM PST by Gamecock (Aaron had what every megachurch pastor craves: a huge crowd that gave freely and lively worship.)
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To: AndrewB

One of nature’s wonders ...


26 posted on 12/23/2007 5:15:38 AM PST by Tax-chick ("The keys to life are running and reading." ~ Will Smith)
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To: Liz

They remind me of two scorpions in a bottle.


27 posted on 12/23/2007 5:19:57 AM PST by mewzilla (In politics the middle way is none at all. John Adams)
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To: Liz
Oh WOW, that's perfect! But needs more cowbell cankle.
28 posted on 12/23/2007 5:31:22 AM PST by upchuck (And Senator Clinton's experience is................................. where? What? When?)
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To: AndrewB; Reo; ninonitti
Here's another CZJ-related tidbit: Michael Douglas (her hubby and MD's ex) is now the voice-over announcer for NBC Nightly News.


29 posted on 12/23/2007 5:48:05 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: Liz
Clinton....eternal conjugal psychodrama)

Why do I suddenly have nightmares

30 posted on 12/23/2007 5:52:29 AM PST by Popman
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To: Soliton
I don’t think she likes the guy

Does she even like guys at all? I've always gotten the impression from reading her drivel that she's either a bitter, frigid spinster or a dyke man hater.....

31 posted on 12/23/2007 5:55:10 AM PST by Thermalseeker (Debates? Those weren't no stinkin' debates!)
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To: mkjessup
Merry Christmas, MKJ.


32 posted on 12/23/2007 5:57:41 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: AndrewB

my gosh, that woman is beautiful.

Regards,


33 posted on 12/23/2007 6:41:43 AM PST by Thunder 6
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To: Liz
"Is Bill a loyal spouse or a subconscious saboteur?"

If there was ever a rhetorical question, that's got to be it. Everyone knows the answer to that one by heart by now.


Is he a loyal spouse.
Gimme a break!

34 posted on 12/23/2007 6:48:18 AM PST by Bon mots
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To: Liz
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

OHhhh WOe is me...
why's everybody always pickin on ME???

35 posted on 12/23/2007 6:59:36 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: Chode

MEGLOMANIA

It’s a big word meaning something about ego and a neurotic preoccupation with one’s own self. In lesser representations, it is seen as a need for attention, insecurity around not being recognized, accepted, in the group. You see it in little children sometimes, most times, as a growth process. The child who repeatedly says, “watch me mommy”, is seen as “Normal” just trying to get enough recognition to be sure he/she is okay.

In larger representations it is seen in most social gatherings, the person who talks louder than others, over rides the conversation, wants us to think he’ she is really something....

Gee..who do we know who’s like that?


36 posted on 12/23/2007 7:28:04 AM PST by y6162
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To: Liz
and lighting an exploding cigar

So that's how that happened!!

37 posted on 12/23/2007 7:34:12 AM PST by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: flowerplough
Without handlers, Bill is little more than ego, feigned empathy, and horn-dog lechery.

I think you are right on this. It has always been my feeling that Billyboy's putative talent was over-rated, given his self-defeating impulses.

38 posted on 12/23/2007 7:44:51 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: AmericaUnited
The truth is that Bill and Hitlery hate each other with a pure passion

I doubt they hate each other. They appear to have a negative bond, which is a mixture of strong attachment and simultaneous incompatibility on the personal level, overridden by a common ambition for which they need each other at the external level.

39 posted on 12/23/2007 7:49:33 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Liz
What?

This is it? This is the "bombshell" that the NYT was gonna drop on the Clinton campaign?

I knew I was right when I thought: Naw, they'd (NYT) never do that to her.

40 posted on 12/23/2007 8:01:59 AM PST by woofer (Earth First! We'll mine the other eight later.)
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To: Chode

Looking at that picture reminds me of a rumor I heard once. Erskine Bowles is Jesse Helms’ love child.


41 posted on 12/23/2007 8:15:12 AM PST by csmusaret (Mnimum wage today; maximum wage tomorrow. It's the Socialist way.)
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To: AmericaUnited

The truth is that Bill and Hitlery hate each other with a pure passion. The only stay together for what’s in it for them. As soon as “what I get vs what I give” tips under the 50% mark, they will try to kill each other.””

Legally, I think they HAVE to “stay together”. They each know too much dirt about the other, and collectively, they definately are poison wo all those around them.

Makes one wonder what they each did in their prior lives? Anyone want to ask Sylvia Browne??


42 posted on 12/23/2007 8:43:46 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: Liz
When Bill gets slit-eyed, red-faced and finger-wagging in defense of Hillary, is he really defending himself, ego in full bloom, against aspersions Obama and Edwards cast on Clintonian politics?

.I did not have sex with Hillary

43 posted on 12/23/2007 9:30:40 AM PST by Donald Rumsfeld Fan (NY Times: "fake but accurate")
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To: csmusaret

where does it end... 8^)


44 posted on 12/23/2007 9:32:00 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist)
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To: AmericaUnited
The truth is that Bill and Hitlery hate each other with a pure passion.

It's clear why she chose to stay with him. He was her meal ticket -- the route to power, for herself.

But why did he stay with her? When all you want to do is chase young women, why put up with the harpy at home? Sure, she let him do it -- but she made him pay a price.

But what benefit did he gain from the marriage?

There's something we don't know about their relationship...

45 posted on 12/23/2007 9:46:29 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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To: Chode

“where does it end....”

never....they will never go away.


46 posted on 12/23/2007 9:55:37 AM PST by ripley
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To: Chode

"Man, that chick you sent to my room last night was a dog from the neck up."

47 posted on 12/23/2007 10:08:44 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: Bon mots
BUBBA AND FLUBBA

"Hillary, your iowa polling doesn't look too good for The Clinton Legacy."

"Drop dead, Bill."

48 posted on 12/23/2007 10:10:51 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: okie01

He’s a momma’s boy.
And she’s the evil momma that always makes bad things right.


49 posted on 12/23/2007 10:26:27 AM PST by COUNTrecount
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To: COUNTrecount
He’s a momma’s boy.

Is that really all there is to it?

Does he simply have a psychological dependency on her?

There are a lot of possible pathologies in a relationship so perverse as their's. So, it's conceivable...

50 posted on 12/23/2007 10:37:27 AM PST by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA: Ignorance on Parade)
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