Posted on 12/26/2007 8:55:14 PM PST by hole_n_one
Be sure to explain this to everyone you meet. This will ensure that you have the friends you deserve.
Why don't you tell us of the circumstances and frame of mind that existed during your last commission of a theft. It might help us understand why you make the claim that you make.
I agree, the laws vary from state to state.
It seems like this sting was mostly focused on thefts from unlocked vehicles (488PC, 487PC).
ARTICLE SNIPPET: “This time of the year, thefts from unlocked vehicles increase and have been a problem throughout Ventura County. Thousand Oaks saw a spike in these types of crimes last fall.”
I agree with you you regarding the description of a burglary of vehicle. (459PC-Auto).
Smiling...former California girl.
I think the bad guys are working in sales this year and taking pictures of your credits cards with their cell phones. The car jack / smash and grab is soo yesterday.....;o)
Barely missing was the sign "FREE STUFF HERE" (We won't arrest you, trust us)
It should be pointed out that the city of Thousand Oaks is near Los Angeles but has not yet become infected with Illegal Immigrants. This city consistently ranks near the top for the FBI’s safest cities list.
It's people like you that are the problem. If your heart is so wicked, you may need to seek help. A thief will get killed if he steals from me. You will be one of the idiots saying "It's just stuff, you shouldn't kill over it!" He will be just as dead. You give him your stuff, I'll protect my family and my stuff. I'm one of those weirdo's that finds a wallet and returns it with the money in it because I would hope someone would do it for me. I was just raised to respect others. Kinda old fashioned huh?
The best example I can give of entrapment would be a situation where you have no criminal record and your are unknown to the police for any criminal propensities. You are minding your own business and someone approaches you and says something to the effect that he has some stolen Rolex watches and he would sell you one cheap. You take a chance and buy one and oops - it is an undercover operation. This is entrapment because it was the police who initiated the transaction.
On the other hand, you see someone you believe is selling stolen watches. You ask him if they are stolen and he says yes and you decide to purchase one anyway. OOPS! It's an undercover operation but you have no defense because you initiated the transaction.
Thanks - sometimes I get something right!
You’re welcome.
That is an extraordinary claim. How can you possibly support it? What if it was a car belonging to a citizen and it was loaded up with the same gear? Nobody would steal from said car if the police weren't watching?
If I were oni the GJ, I'd be asking if there was a procedure for awarding medals.
Bump for more “entrapment” by those dastardly LEOs seducing those honest citizens.
>In Colorado it’s better just to steal the guy and dump it somewhere. The police don’t chase after car thieves in this state. I kid you not.<
Unless the car thief threatened or used violence and injured a person I don’t think chasing car theives is the smart thing to do. Just doesn’t make sense to have a criminal driving 90 mph on our streets or highways.
By claiming that you would never, under any circumstances, steal (or commit any other sin), you show yourself to be a liar.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (I John 1:8)
You, as a person with a sin nature just like everyone else on the planet, are just as capable of stealing as some guy who is already in gaol doing hard time for grand theft auto. You demonstrate that you don't have the truth in you by your denial of this, which is essentially you saying that you're a good enough person that "you'd never do that". This makes you self-righteous on top of being a liar.
When did I steal? I haven't actually. I just know well enough that anyone, myself included, could do so if put into the right (or wrong) circumstances. There's a reason even Solomon wrote,
"Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die: Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain." (Proverbs 30:7-9)
I think it'd certainly be possible for anyone, no matter who they are, to fall on hard times, get bitter about it, decide they don't want to do things God's way, and decide they want to try to score some easy money. It could happen to you, and I think you know deep down inside that what I'm saying is right, which is why you're getting so worked up about it.
LOL, you're going to whine about me taking you to task, after you basically implied that I was mad because I got caught trying to score a "dime bag"? I think you need to grow up and get a thicker skin. As for your .45 ACP, you need to put that thing away before you hurt yourself. Maybe you can have it back when you start acting like an adult - which you're not doing right now.
I wonder if your claim "I have never even been tempted to steal from anybody" would really ring true, if we could look deep, down inside you. What I *do* know, however, is that the heart is deceitful above all things, and that if any man says he has no sin (i.e., that he does not have a sin nature inherent within him), then he is a liar. I highly doubt you've never been *tempted* to steal, since satan tempts us to all kinds of things all the time. I've been tempted to steal - but I've not done so, because I resisted the temptation. I wonder if this is perhaps what you meant to say.
It's people like you that are the problem. If your heart is so wicked, you may need to seek help. A thief will get killed if he steals from me. You will be one of the idiots saying "It's just stuff, you shouldn't kill over it!" He will be just as dead. You give him your stuff, I'll protect my family and my stuff. I'm one of those weirdo's that finds a wallet and returns it with the money in it because I would hope someone would do it for me. I was just raised to respect others. Kinda old fashioned huh?
See? It's drivel like this that caused me to say that you are an idiot. I point out that this is a case of police entrapment, and suddenly your whining about how I'm "one of the idiots saying "It's just stuff, you shouldn't kill over it!" On what are you basing that assumption? Oh yeah, I forgot, it's because you're all worked up and hyperventilating like a little baby because someone pointed out that you have a sin nature like everyone else. Well boo hoo. Guess what? GOD says that you have a wicked heart, just like everyone else, and that you'd be just as prone to wickedness as anyone else is, if you were in the wrong set of circumstances. You can put on self-righteous airs all you want, but the fact remains that the only difference between you and the guy in prison for auto theft, or between you and the drug dealer, or between you and the drunk lying in his own puke in the gutter, is that you resisted temptations that they did not. To say that you would never have those temptations, or that you'd never, possibly, ever be as bad as them is foolishness. GOD says so, not me.
FWIW, I've actually turned in several wallets/checks/cash - with all the contents intact - that people have dropped or lost. Guess that makes me just as good as you, hunh?
Pretty easily, actually. If the car's not there to begin with, nobody could steal from it. It's a matter of physics, really.
Here in Colorado, the police will ticket you if you start your car on a cold morning and leave it running, un-occupied. They say it is an open invitation to car thieves.
So, it is a ticketable offense if a civilian does it...but it's not entrapment if a cop does it?
I always thought it was akin to ticketing provocotively dressed women for presenting an open invitation to rapists.
Right, and that's why things mentioned above - like speed traps and drug buys as part of ongoing investigations - are not entrapment. If a cop sitting behind a sign dings a speeder, well, the motorist was already speeding to begin with - they were already guilty when the cop observed their excessive speed. But your scenario doesn't fit what's going on with this particular sting operation, however.
The best example I can give of entrapment would be a situation where you have no criminal record and your are unknown to the police for any criminal propensities. You are minding your own business and someone approaches you and says something to the effect that he has some stolen Rolex watches and he would sell you one cheap. You take a chance and buy one and oops - it is an undercover operation. This is entrapment because it was the police who initiated the transaction.
Yes, and that seems to be what is going on here - trying to get people who don't have previous criminal records (at least none that the cops involved in the sting operation knows about) to commit a felony crime. Look at the article again, and we see some interesting things to be drawn from what it says:
1) There's nothing in the article that indicates that the sting was targeting a particular high-theft area or that burglars were working this area, and hence, would be more likely to be available to take the bait.
2) While the article does note that thefts from vehicles increase this time of year, again, there's no evidence that any person or groups of person with a known propoensity for this type of crime was being "stung".
3) Instead, the wording of the article suggests that the police were just laying out bait and hoping that someone, anyone, would take it and get a felony arrest. They're throwing out a net, and hoping to drag in the few who would commit a crime of opportunity - again, not knowing who passing by the car may be, or even that someone who did bite on the bait was previously part of that population.
I believe that what we see here is just a police effort to create criminals and justify a budget.
On the other hand, you see someone you believe is selling stolen watches. You ask him if they are stolen and he says yes and you decide to purchase one anyway. OOPS! It's an undercover operation but you have no defense because you initiated the transaction.
Which has no relevancy to what the police were doing in this case, since it was they who were initiating the transaction, so to speak.
Well, no wonder you have chosen to cast the first stone.
I was making a point by way of explanation. I will say this however. There is no court case you can cite that agrees that if police put out property in public and someone steals it that it is entrapment. NO COURT CASE!
"Yes, and that seems to be what is going on here - trying to get people who don't have previous criminal records (at least none that the cops involved in the sting operation knows about) to commit a felony crime."
Prove that statement! Show me where in the article that the intent of the police is to get people who don't have prior records! The police put the property out there and people are going to make their own decisions regardless of their past. The cops don't have any knowledge who is going to come by and decide to take the property Show me in the article that they know for certain!.
"There's nothing in the article that indicates that the sting was targeting a particular high-theft area or that burglars were working this area, and hence, would be more likely to be available to take the bait."
And how can you say with 100% certainty that on the day of the sting that burglars WOULDN'T be working the area? Are you THAT good at predictions? If so, you need to go into law enforcement. Cops can make good guesses based on recent trends that crooks might be working an area, but no cop that I have ever heard of can predict with pinpoint accuracy a day in advance that crimes will or will not happen in a given populated area. In many cities, burglars work the entire city. They are just as likely to hit one residential area or shopping area as another. There is no requirement for the cops to target any particular area. That might be construed as "profiling" and I am sure YOU wouldn't support THAT! It doesn't matter where the sting operation is set up. The only thing that matters is if someone takes the property.
"While the article does note that thefts from vehicles increase this time of year, again, there's no evidence that any person or groups of person with a known propoensity for this type of crime was being "stung"."
You are hinting around again that the police should be "profiling." Do you support profiling? Anyway, the result is that if no one took any property then no one was stung were they? How can you sting people who don't do anything?
"Instead, the wording of the article suggests that the police were just laying out bait and hoping that someone, anyone, would take it and get a felony arrest. They're throwing out a net, and hoping to drag in the few who would commit a crime of opportunity - again, not knowing who passing by the car may be, or even that someone who did bite on the bait was previously part of that population."
Well it takes a real sucker to take a chance on taking property that doesn't belong to him. The police just might be watching. I, and many of the FReepers here have the common sense God gave us not to take something from a vehicle that doesn't belong to us. If someone else is so jaw droppingly brain dead STUPID that they will commit a crime of opportunity and the police are watching and they get arrested - LOLOLOLOLOL! Screw them!
"I believe that what we see here is just a police effort to create criminals and justify a budget."
Well this one failed. It won't take too many of these failed stings and they will stop. Management wants stats, and zero stats is ungood.
"Which has no relevancy to what the police were doing in this case, since it was they who were initiating the transaction, so to speak."
Wrong. The police are not initiating any transaction here. They are not in direct communications with anyone. The police are passive and waiting until someone commits a "crime of opportunity." That someone could be an illegal alien, a parolee, a gang member, a drug addict, or just an innocent citizen who happens to come by and can't restrain himself and just has to commit a crime on that particular day. In all cases - TOUGH LUCK YA RETARD!
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