Posted on 12/27/2007 7:44:51 AM PST by SmithL
The new director of the Three Valleys Municipal Water District in Claremont introduced himself with tales so harrowing, so seemingly courageous, that people took notice.
Fellow board member Dan Horan said Xavier Alvarez told him he saved a U.S. ambassador – and the American flag – while wounded by gunfire during a daring rooftop helicopter rescue in Lebanon.
Horan said he was puzzled when Alvarez, a board member elected in 2006, later changed his story to say it happened in Iran. And he was skeptical when his colleague also bragged of rescuing Marines pinned down by Viet Cong gunfire in Vietnam.
On Sept. 26, authorities charged Alvarez, 49, with violating a 2005 federal "Stolen Valor Act" by standing up at a gathering of water officials in July and announcing he was a wounded veteran, 25-year Marine and a recipient of the fabled Congressional Medal of Honor. Assistant U.S. Attorney Craig Missakian, who is prosecuting the case, said Alvarez never served in the military.
To state Assemblyman Paul Cook, R-Yucca Valley, the case represents just one of many – far too many – episodes of people impersonating veterans, embellishing service records or claiming medals they never earned.
Cook, a Marine Corps veteran and a Purple Heart recipient in the Vietnam War, this year pushed through a California version of the Stolen Valor Act.
The law, which takes effect Tuesday, adds another tier of enforcement to the federal act by allowing state and local law enforcement to cite anyone who falsely dons or claims a military medal or decoration the person didn't earn.
Expanding upon an existing state statute allowing misdemeanor citations against people who falsely claim to be active service members or veterans, the law makes it an infraction to lie about military awards...
(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...
Tom Gentile, a retired Army sergeant major who investigates allegations of military impostors and reports his results to authorities, wanted California to pass an even stronger law. With 42 years of military service, he runs the Legion of Valor Museum in Fresno.
Medals are displayed inside the Legion of Valor Museum in Fresno. A new state law makes it a crime in Caifornia to wear or claim such decorations that weren't earned. Veterans say deception defames the true service of honorable veterans.
Does this mean that John Kerry won’t be campaigning for anyone in California?
In these days of instant fact-checking on the internet, foolish liars can be exposed more quickly.
He was 6 when he did this.
Here is a link I’ve found to be helpful when checking on some Wannabe’s “exploits”.
http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1050.htm
Excuse me. He was 12.
In these days of instant fact-checking on the internet, foolish liars can be exposed more quickly.
Well, don’t count on “instant facts checks” to be accurate on military records. Mine aren’t even right. I spent 14 years active duty, and my records reflect 26 years of service. 12 of them were Reserves. My DD214 ONLY shows my ACTIVE duty time, and medals I received on active duty.
I do NOT have a DD214 for my Reserve time and was recently told that “You do not get one, unless part of that time served was ‘active duty’.”
/shrug
While on RESERVE status I received at least two more medals than my DD214 shows... and I don’t think you’re going to find my military records on the internet.
My ACTIVE 214 DOES NOT show certain things either and never will. My records don’t have copies of the “classified information” in them EITHER. :) So, rest assured that “internet fact checking” is as inaccurate today, as it will be in 20 more years.
By the way I’m 50, and I ‘missed’ the Vietnam war... I went in the service in 1976. The last of the troops were pretty much out of there by ‘74 if I recall correctly. So, someone a year younger than myself couldn’t have been in Nam.
No apology needed. This wannabe deserves the shame that comes with claiming false fame.
This is nothing new. I remember watching an even then, old Perry Mason as a kid, that a situation came out “on the stand”, regarding the reliability of a witness, because of a medal claim.
i think hes watched “rules of engagement” one too many times”
Certain information should still remain in them, though. If you claim to have been a Ranger, there should still be records that you went to that training.
Very true. Yet your awards would not be classified. Thank you for your service.
I have (2) DD 214s and I also have an NGB 23 (or is it NGB 22?) for my reserve time in the National Guard. Not sure if I can lay my hands on the National Guard form but I know there are a couple of mistakes on my second DD 214. I had to get them to issue a correction. Of course the NGB form has medals on it that are not on either 214.
HEY ! It’s his story, let him tell it.......in prison !
That’s still pretty good for a 12 year old.
Oh, absolutely. I agree. I’m just saying that not everything appears in your military records. There are several items of note that won’t ever appear in mine, for good reason. On the other hand, I don’t go around “bragging” about it either. lol
As for training and such, some certainly does appear, some doesn’t, depending on what it was, but things like being a Ranger or Seal would appear - though if I remember my friend’s stuff, it doesn’t actually say “SEAL”, but it has some information about the training program that he went through. I’d have to ask him — but he’s another that wouldn’t brag about it, and probably wouldn’t tell you if you asked him directly, he might even lie to you about it :)
“If you claim to have been a Ranger, there should still be records that you went to that training.”
Many Rangers like Duncan Hunter never attended the school, and they were not awarded the tab.
I had a friend that was awarded the Special Forces tab in Vietnam although he never attended the course, that was verified by Sgt Gordon Rottman, who my friend and I served under in an Airborne Ranger LRRP later LRS National Guard unit.
Seems like a freedom of speech issue to me. People should be able to SAY whatever the frig they want.
11B
I'm very proud of my service, and I'll tell you submarine stories all day long. However, I knew people that went to Vietnam, and I knew some that never came back. They all have my deepest respect and appreciation, and I can't imagine degrading their honor by trying to steal it.
No awards aren’t classified. Just mission details, and sometimes places you’ve gone, things like that. And, you know I’m out of the service now... but I appreciate you saying that to me. :) But know something - and this is coming from someone who didn’t “do anything important” in my life, it was my job, I chose to do it.
Most military personnel join the military for one of a couple of reasons... either they joined it because they really are patriotic, or they joined it because there was a good ad campaign (and perhaps believed, like me, that there were no other real options for college in those days).
I joined because I was patriotic, and because my father was in the Marines and served in Korea. I didn’t join “for college”, though I’ve now taken advantage of that and have gone to college for 30 years now :) (Thank you US Air Force!)
Again though - most military personnel join to do a job, and to them no matter what they do, it was “just a job”.
So, please save the “Thanks” for the kids that are in Iraq and other real world situations now, please.
Nope. I’m also a “Vietnam ERA” Vet. :)
And the man who is subject of this particular thread very well could have been a “Vietnam ERA” Vet as well, but doesn’t make him a veteran of that war.
I know many of those guys, and my hat is off to them for their service. I’ve seen combat, but nothing like some of them. I don’t think I did anything “noteworthy”.
My son came back from Iraq last April. He’s a hero to me, but he doesn’t think so :)
Paging John Kerry
“I make it a habit to never contradict Mrs. SmithL in public (life seems smoother that way). “
Shouldn’t you have said: “ life is safer that way”?
A grand father of mine, Daniel Agee served in the 4th. Regiment Light Dargoons under Colonel Moyland 1777 (Corder Service National Archives). His tombstone in Union Methodist Church Cemetery near Trenton, Tennessee has his birth date as December 29, 1764, that would make him 12 years old when he served in the Revolutionary War.
Dragoons, not Dargoons.
“Here is a link I’ve found to be helpful when checking on some Wannabe’s “exploits”.
I know a guy here in town who goes about telling of his exploits at Khe Sahn. He was in the Marines, but it always struck me that his story was from a book. Any way of checking out things of this sort? He never makes claims of medals or displays such.
I went through an accelerated course at Recondo School in November of 1967 with my platoon from F/51 and one from E/20. We did it all except for the patrol at the end, skipping the patrols so that the companies could be fully operational sooner. We are not entitled to the Recondo patch even though we completed all requirements except for that training patrol and our job was running Recondo missions.
In 1969, I was Team Leader of TM 17, with O/75, with the 3rd Bde of the 82nd. We were a Ranger company, but I never saw Ranger School and am not entitled to the Ranger tab. I believe Duncan Hunter is a Ranger in the same way.
That’s not like some clown claiming to have been Rambo when he wasn’t even Gomer Pyle. It’s a strange sickness, this wannabe thing.
Michael Frazier
As in.....there should be no law against making verbal false claims of military service/valor...when not testifying under oath or applying for a civil service job, etc...
As in....”Congress shall make no law....” no matter how feel good it is.
I believe it. I was curious so I Googled “youngest WWII soldier” and came up with this book about a 13 year old soldier (James Clark):
http://www.amazon.com/American-Soldier-13-Years-Old/dp/1412059380
I never got my certificate for completion of the “Ranger Correspondence Course.” All those weekends doing pushups under a cold shower while spraying myself in the face with CS wasted!
Kudos to you!
That was wholey a differant time back then, though. I’ve been reading about the Lima Company, 101st LRRPs, and the writer makes it sound like a lot of training was done without a standard school or anything like that.
But it’s very true in my time now that any training leaves a trace.
LOL
Michael Frazier
What is ironic about all the phony "heroes" is that they feel compelled to tell, and retel, their "exploits" over and over...in larger and more public forums. That is almost a sure sign that they are at the least, embellishing..at the worst, complete liars. Every comabt vet I've ever know..whether or not they've been highly decorated...is usually loathe to talk publicly about wartime experiences or medals..
Would this law apply to Kerry if he ever visits California and says his Nam lies.
“To state Assemblyman Paul Cook, R-Yucca Valley, the case represents just one of many – far too many – episodes of people impersonating veterans, embellishing service records or claiming medals they never earned.
Cook, a Marine Corps veteran and a Purple Heart recipient in the Vietnam War, this year pushed through a California version of the Stolen Valor Act.
The law, which takes effect Tuesday, adds another tier of enforcement to the federal act by allowing state and local law enforcement to cite anyone who falsely dons or claims a military medal or decoration the person didn’t earn.
Expanding upon an existing state statute allowing misdemeanor citations against people who falsely claim to be active service members or veterans, the law makes it an infraction to lie about military awards...”
Kerry is safe in Mass. and DC. The anti Americans in those areas would never pass a bill like this.
[I quickly corrected her, saying that I was a Vietnam-era Veteran.]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I concur.
I also make sure to point out that I was a Vietnam-era service member.
Did you get caught?
Just don’t call these imposters “phoney soldiers” or you’ll have DingyHarry after you.
“...that would make him 12 years old when he served in the Revolutionary War.”
Every able-bodied male who can carry a rifle, as they say. Sounds like your many-greats grandfather was a true patriot, and my genuine thanks to him for his service.
As another convicted criminal, Martha Stewart, would say... “It’s a good thing!”
My wife had Martha on for a few minutes yesterday to get a recipe from a visiting chef.
Martha looks like she could play middle line backer for USC, Oklahoma or some other pro football team.
Agreed. I think these "phony soldiers" are disgusting and falsely claiming medals is very offensive. But I don't think governments should be in the business of regulating offensive speech.
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