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ANSWERS TO 50 ANTI-MORMON QUESTIONS (LDS SITE FAIR)
FAIR (Foundation for Apologetics Information & Research) ^ | modified December 22, 2007 | FAIR Staff

Posted on 12/29/2007 8:34:35 AM PST by greyfoxx39

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To: greyfoxx39
Brigham and others were most likely repeating what had been told them by the science of the day.

So much for ASKING God for the TRUTH of a matter!!

Them 'scriptures' sure were useful!!

 
 
 
 


THE BOOK OF MORONI
CHAPTER 10
 
A testimony of the Book of Mormon comes by the power of the Holy Ghost—The gifts of the Spirit are dispensed to the faithful—Spiritual gifts always accompany faith—Moroni’s words speak from the dust—Come unto Christ, be perfected in him, and sanctify your souls. About A.D. 421
 
1 Now I, Moroni, write somewhat as seemeth me good; and I write unto my brethren, the Lamanites; and I would that they should know that *more than four hundred and twenty years have passed away since the sign was given of the coming of Christ.
2 And I seal up these records, after I have spoken a few words by way of exhortation unto you.
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.
 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
 

 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 9
 
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet to Oliver Cowdery, at Harmony, Pennsylvania, April 1829. HC 1: 37–38. Oliver is admonished to be patient, and is urged to be content to write, for the time being, at the dictation of the translator, rather than to attempt to translate. 1–6, Other ancient records are yet to be translated; 7–14, The Book of Mormon is translated by study and by spiritual confirmation.
 
1 Behold, I say unto you, my son, that because you did not translate according to that which you desired of me, and did commence again to write for my servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., even so I would that ye should continue until you have finished this record, which I have entrusted unto him.
2 And then, behold, other records have I, that I will give unto you power that you may assist to translate.
3 Be patient, my son, for it is wisdom in me, and it is not expedient that you should translate at this present time.
4 Behold, the work which you are called to do is to write for my servant Joseph.
5 And, behold, it is because that you did not continue as you commenced, when you began to translate, that I have taken away this privilege from you.
6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.
7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must cask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.
10 Now, if you had known this you could have translated; nevertheless, it is not expedient that you should translate now.
11 Behold, it was expedient when you commenced; but you feared, and the time is past, and it is not expedient now;
12 For, do you not behold that I have given unto my servant Joseph sufficient strength, whereby it is made up? And neither of you have I condemned.
13 Do this thing which I have commanded you, and you shall prosper. Be faithful, and yield to no temptation.
14 Stand fast in the work wherewith I have called you, and a hair of your head shall not be lost, and you shall be lifted up at the last day. Amen.

201 posted on 12/29/2007 1:45:04 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Oh, Elsie! Welcome! We needed some color. Your spam is always so pleasant to look at! I do appreciate that you spruce it up before you copy and paste it.


202 posted on 12/29/2007 1:47:04 PM PST by tantiboh
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To: greyfoxx39
 
15a. Why does the Book of Mormon state that POLYGAMY is an ABOMINATION, and then the founders and leaders of the LDS Organization do it anyway??
 

 
 
 
THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI
CHAPTER 2
 
  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

203 posted on 12/29/2007 1:47:43 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.




U.S. Army Retired


204 posted on 12/29/2007 1:49:10 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (Mitt to supporters: "DON'T TRY TO DEFEND MY LIBERAL RECORD. BELITTLE THEM WITH PERSONAL ATTACKS")
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To: greyfoxx39
The critics need to read the next verses. The Book of Mormon says that God may command polygamy, just a few verses later. (Jac. 2:30).

Anyone with half a BRAIN can read those verse and NEVER get any reference to POLYGAMY from them at all!

  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any aman among you have save it be bone cwife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the achastity of women. And bwhoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or acursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up aseed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

205 posted on 12/29/2007 1:51:07 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: greyfoxx39
The shortest answer is that the Saints believe the First Vision not because of textual evidence, but because of personal revelation.

Let me translate this "Reformed Mormon Speak" for you:

SCREW evidence! We KNOW it's true!!

206 posted on 12/29/2007 1:52:38 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Reaganesque
If you want official LDS doctrine, you go to the source: LDS.org

I've heard so much about these, probably from what the LDS organization calls ANTI's; so about your TEMPLE RITES®.Where on LDS.org does one find out about them??

207 posted on 12/29/2007 1:55:16 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: maine-iac7
All one has to do to find out what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints believes is to go to their official website:

Why are not ALL of the LDS organizational beliefs not found on their website?

208 posted on 12/29/2007 1:57:43 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: LeGrande
Lets bring in all the 'christian' hypocrits to attack the Mormons : )

YEE hah!!

I just want to use their own writings.

Can you help me with them?

209 posted on 12/29/2007 1:58:49 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: LeGrande; All
Condemning innocent little children to hell is pathetic.
And you attack Mormons because they think little children are innocent.
That is what this is all about.
 
 
TARBABY ALERT!!!
 
Do NOT waste your time posting to LeGrande.
 
EVERYTHING he says is a diversion.
 
 

210 posted on 12/29/2007 2:01:23 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Osage Orange
I've no idea what you a talking about.

That's the idea.

Do not post to him.

211 posted on 12/29/2007 2:02:03 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: wardaddy
I'm southern baptist now for 50 years and I have never heard that.

Do not waste your time 'defending' anything.

LG is one, big diversion tactic.

212 posted on 12/29/2007 2:03:43 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: tantiboh
I don’t have a problem with the thread being posted, but what business does it have on News/Activism? Shouldn’t this thread be in Religion?

Because it's NEWS!!!

213 posted on 12/29/2007 2:06:05 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: broncobilly; colorcountry; Colofornian; aMorePerfectUnion; JRochelle; greyfoxx39; Greg F; ...
Lying for the Lord
The following is from an essay by Ken Clark for MormonThink. Ken worked for the Church Education System (CES) of the LDS Church for 27 years. He also served as a bishop; a calling he enjoyed as much as full time instructor and Coordinator for the Church Education System.

“The right to lie in the service of your own interests is highly valued and frequently exercised”—Nero Wolfe<[p> I began this exercise when I was a full time employee of the LDS Church Education System (CES). I worked as a Seminary Principal/teacher, Institute teacher/Director, and CES Stake Coordinator of CES Programs from 1975 - 2002. (I signed a Letter of Agreement with CES to serve as the Director of the Pullman, Washington LDS Institute of Religion adjacent to Washington State University in July 2002. I resigned on August 7, 2002.) I continue to cherish the students, ward leaders and others I grew to respect in the LDS Church. I still write to a few beloved former students. I started this list in an effort to defend the church from its detractors. I was insulted to hear detractors accuse LDS church leaders of dishonesty, or other embarrassing actions. I “knew” because of my testimony the criticisms could not be true.

As an informal defender, I noted that those charging the church with dishonesty had the facts on their side from time to time. I defended the leaders in these cases by pointing out that (1) all organizations are run by humans and of course you’ll find unrepeated instances of deception by its leaders; and (2) the leaders of the LDS church are working out their salvation too as they gain wisdom and experience; of course they will err from on occasion. I created other ways to deal with the cognitive dissonance, but these were the most frequent rationalizations. It was a way of saying that while there may have been isolated instances of a leader here and there telling a lie. But I saw no evidence that church leaders engaged in a pattern of premeditated deceit.

Sometimes I caught myself and other member missionaries telling less than the whole truth, or embellishing in order to defend the church. I gave myself permission to be slightly dishonest because I was trying to achieve a higher moral purpose; or so I reasoned. I resolved not to be dishonest when defending the church. I decided to let the lives and sermons of the church leaders speak for themselves. They would have to represent the church so I could be more honest with myself and others. If detractors were right some of the time, the church and I would have to deal with it.

I began keeping a list of documented prevarications. I wanted to prove that deceit was not an established practice. Instead it was sometimes a misunderstanding, a remark out of context or an innocent mistake. As I read more church history the list began to grow, and I recognized that an institutional practice had been established by Joseph Smith and carried on by church leaders; including those who serve currently. It indicated an accepted practice and pattern. When the church or its leaders sought protection, it was acceptable to fib, deceive, minimize, exaggerate, prevaricate or outright lie. As you will read below, church leaders have admitted that deception was a useful tool used to protect the church and its leaders “when they are in tight spot,” or “to beat the devil at his own game.” They confess that lying for the Lord constitutes a greater good – and that God approves of deception – it’s lying for a superior cause; a higher law. I was devastated at first to learn these uncomfortable truths. I had not expected to find that lying for the Lord was a common and acceptable method for avoiding embarrassment. I had naively believed that when church leaders erred, they followed the steps of repentance the church taught to all its members. I believed they had the courage to face their mistakes with humility and confess or admit their shortcomings; no matter what the consequences; to live the same standards they set for the members. I believed they were honest in all their dealings with their fellow men/women.

D. Michael Quinn called the practice of deceit by church leaders “theocratic ethics.” (The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, page 112) It was an ethos established by Joseph Smith to protect the church or its leaders by lying if necessary. Dan Vogel in his excellent work, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, described Smith’s philosophy. Smith used deception if it resulted in good – as he saw it. Smith had Moroni, an ancient American prophet and custodian of gold plates say, “And whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do good is of me; for good cometh of none save it be of me. (Moroni 4:11-12). This translated into the following ethic. If deception was necessary to do good, or bring a soul to Christ, then it was worth it.

Smith also raised lying to higher moral ground when he rationalized both lying and murder in 1 Nephi 4. Nephi was inspired by God to dress in disguise and alter his voice to deceive and capture a servant and then murder Laban in order to secure an ancient historical record on plates of brass. God, according to Smith, not only approved of lying, but also murder if it brought about the greater good – however Smith defined it. In Missouri Smith and his counselor Sidney Rigdon threatened to kill Mormon’s who disagreed with Smith’s policies and initiatives (Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, Chapter 3, “Theocratic Beginnings,” 79-103).

Smith lied in order to convince others that he could see subterranean treasure by pulling a hat over his face and peering into a magic rock placed inside (Dan Vogel, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, 82-86). Smith determined that God had ordered the prophet Abraham to lie to protect himself and his wife Sarah from harm (Abraham 2:23-25).

Smith’s arrest, trial and conviction in Bainbridge, NY for fraud in 1826 is well documented. He was found guilty for glass looking. Our modern term for Smith would be a con artist. Smith’s conscience permitted him to lie when he thought it was necessary to earn a living, though it meant conning the gullible out of their money. He claimed to see buried treasure in a rock placed in the bottom of his hat (pulled over his face) and charged a fee to locate the riches. The moral ethic at work was that if he could deceive and get away with it, and if some good could might come from it (making a living wage), then there was no harm in it. Modern scams operate on the same principle.

Smith was comfortable with lying and deception and wove it in the fabric of Mormonism as a way of dealing with undesirables, unwanted publicity, tattlers, and others who disagreed with Smith’s deception. Some excellent sources that record Smith’s deception (and the deception of others) who are nevertheless charitable to Smith are: Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, Prophet’s Wife, “Elect Lady”, Polygamy’s Foe. Dan Vogel, Joseph Smith: The Making of a Prophet, Signature Books, Salt Lake City, 2004. D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, Signature Books, Salt Lake City, 1994. D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Signature Books, Salt Lake City, 1997. Fawn Brodie, No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith, Vintage Books, NY, 1995. B. Carmon Hardy, Solemn Covenant: The Mormon Polygamous Passage, University of Illinois Press, 1992. (The essay on Lying for the Lord in the Hardy appendix is masterful and yet compassionate.) Also, Will Bagley’s, Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows, University of Oklahoma Press, Norman, OK 2002, offers insight into the minds of other church leaders who used deception effectively too.

The following is a list or prevarications that I compiled as I read church history." ... Ken goes on to give 100 examples of this 'lying for the Lord' ... and that causes one to ask, 'when are these Mormonism apologists merely following the same methodology?' Several of the stories they've told over the past several months have required a long stretch to be believed. But they may absolve themselves by pleading in their minds that it is to help God's kingdom along. And thereby serve the father of lies ...

214 posted on 12/29/2007 2:10:10 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Domandred
 
 I like having my religion equated to radical islam.
 
 
It could be worse....
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 
 

215 posted on 12/29/2007 2:12:35 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: big'ol_freeper; Jim Robinson

You’re under the impression that I care, big’ol_freeper. And, frankly, though the quoted post has little to do with my point, I disagree with Jim’s statement. It is American that we have the freedom to question a candidate based on his religion, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. If the religion is a force for good, however, it is entirely un-American to exercise that right. The pilgrims fled such discrimination; the founding fathers proscribed such discrimination from codified legitimacy; and wars have been fought to preserve our freedom from such discrimination. To make such a judgment based on the precepts of a peaceful, productive religion is to spit in the face of all that. And that is un-American.

Our freedom to do it does not make it right to do it.


216 posted on 12/29/2007 2:12:38 PM PST by tantiboh
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To: tantiboh
We’re passionate, not organized.

Your church IS an 'organization', the website is LDS dot ORG, your weekly TEACHINGS are ORGANIZED so that EVERY church is teaching the EXACT same things on each Sunday all over the world...

217 posted on 12/29/2007 2:14:34 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Ah /sniff. Do you just keep that in your clipboard so you can spam it on every thread? Hey hey look a Mormon thread....CTRL-V. Little effort and very tired. Someone needs new material.


218 posted on 12/29/2007 2:17:31 PM PST by Domandred (Eagles soar, but unfortunately weasels never get sucked into jet engines)
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To: Saundra Duffy
I am such a worm.

Let's go fishing!

Just kidding ...

Didja hear about the fellow that liked to fish SO much that he married a girl that had worms?

Bada boom bada bing...

219 posted on 12/29/2007 2:17:57 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Yes, but the -Church- does not engage in partisan politics. It promotes civic involvement by its members, but makes no effort to dictate political ideology or promotion of any particular candidate. Our partisanship is our own. Your point is a tangent.

Please, do not post to me anymore unless your posts are well-thought-out and germane to the topic at hand. I don’t have the time for drivel.


220 posted on 12/29/2007 2:19:05 PM PST by tantiboh
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To: P-Marlowe

“Pretty and witty and BRIGHT...” is NOT the original line!


221 posted on 12/29/2007 2:20:35 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: tantiboh; greyfoxx39
You sir are mistaken if you think I am concerned whether you care or not.




U.S. Army Retired


222 posted on 12/29/2007 2:21:13 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (Mitt to supporters: "DON'T TRY TO DEFEND MY LIBERAL RECORD. BELITTLE THEM WITH PERSONAL ATTACKS")
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To: muawiyah

was he arrested for that? i thot the charges had to do with being uncooperative with the police officers


223 posted on 12/29/2007 2:21:29 PM PST by InvisibleChurch ("200 percent inspection is less reliable than 100 percent inspection,")
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To: tantiboh
 
I swear, you people and your underestimation of human potential. Why should I be satisfied with one measly little planet? “All that God hath” actually means something, you know. Good grief.
 
 


 

Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 27   Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 31    Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together

2 Nephi 3:12     Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins write; and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together,

2 Nephi 3:18      And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it.

 

224 posted on 12/29/2007 2:22:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie
I'm color blind.




U.S. Army Retired


225 posted on 12/29/2007 2:24:09 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (Mitt to supporters: "DON'T TRY TO DEFEND MY LIBERAL RECORD. BELITTLE THEM WITH PERSONAL ATTACKS")
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To: Colofornian

Re. Post 103:

Brilliant!


226 posted on 12/29/2007 2:24:36 PM PST by rightazrain (GO FRED!!!!)
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To: Colofornian
And yet you have the nerve to claim you don't attack us?

Why.. YES!

We don't BELIEVE that stuff no mo!

--MormonDude(Do we??)

Yeah....THAT's the Ticket!

227 posted on 12/29/2007 2:27:45 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: rightazrain

But sadly, the atrheist isn’t likely to read the entire post.


228 posted on 12/29/2007 2:27:45 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: tantiboh

B/S. Some of you guys are pushing the abortionist, gay agenda advancing, gun grabbing, big government socialist nanny state lying liberal RINO BECAUSE of his religion. Conservatives are pushing back. And it’s perfectly within their rights. NOTHING un-American about it. If fact, claiming it is, IS un-American. If you can’t stand the heat, get out! Take Romney with you.


229 posted on 12/29/2007 2:30:22 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Our God-given unalienable rights are not open to debate, negotiation or compromise!)
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To: broncobilly
They compared what they were learning from the missionaries and what their so called friends and families were telling them.
They were so disgusted by the latter that it shook their faith in their previous religious heritage.
 
 
Doncha just HATE when that happens?
 
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 
 
{Psst... Wait'll they find out... The REST of the Story that the mishies DIDN'T tell them!}
230 posted on 12/29/2007 2:30:37 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jim Robinson

Well said, Jim. Thanks.


231 posted on 12/29/2007 2:32:09 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Mitt.... despite what some here are saying. it wasn’t a lie! It was a BLUNDER...by Romney supporter.)
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To: tantiboh; All
Oh, Elsie!

Welcome!

We needed some color.

Your spam is always so pleasant to look at!

I do appreciate that you spruce it up before you copy and paste it.



Hey guys!!

Do you hear that little yipping noise too??











232 posted on 12/29/2007 2:37:48 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Yip. I do.


233 posted on 12/29/2007 2:38:42 PM PST by bubbacluck
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To: MHGinTN
 
 
 

 
 

Professor Robert Millet teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/
 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."

234 posted on 12/29/2007 2:39:19 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Domandred
Ah /sniff. Do you just keep that in your clipboard so you can spam it on every thread? Hey hey look a Mormon thread....CTRL-V. Little effort and very tired. Someone needs new material.

I sure do!!

Nothing like a bit of repitition to get the point across!

And, new material??

I think not, for your OLD material is damning enough.

235 posted on 12/29/2007 2:41:25 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: tantiboh

“If the religion is a force for good, however, it is entirely un-American to exercise that right.”

First, even Scientology and the Hare Krishnas would argue
they are a societal force for good. Not that they are any
more objective about themselves than any other group...
but that doesn’t mean we HAVE to use our personal vote on them.

Isn’t it a precept of mormonism to allow all to worship and
follow the convictions of their own heart?

My heart says, don’t vote for a cultist, despite any good
qualities he may have. And even if he isn’t of the couch-
jumping kind.


236 posted on 12/29/2007 2:42:39 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: MHGinTN
Some excellent sources that record Smith’s deception (and the deception of others) who are nevertheless charitable to Smith are: ... Dan Vogel, ... D. Michael Quinn, ... Fawn Brodie, ... Will Bagley, offers insight into the minds of other church leaders who used deception effectively too.

What a joke. Opinions expressed by the excommunicated and disaffected are not very impressive. As I say, flame away with charges that are easily answered to those who are actually interested in the answer.
237 posted on 12/29/2007 2:44:11 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: tantiboh
Please, do not post to me anymore unless your posts are well-thought-out and germane to the topic at hand. I don’t have the time for drivel.

As long as you risk posting to an open forum, and if I wish to reply to one of your remarks; I will.

If you do not wish to waste your valuable time reading it; don't.

238 posted on 12/29/2007 2:44:14 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Dang!

That must be like listening to stereo with one speaker blown!


239 posted on 12/29/2007 2:45:43 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Ok...

I got it ;^)


240 posted on 12/29/2007 2:46:09 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jim Robinson
Thanks Jim.




U.S. Army Retired


241 posted on 12/29/2007 2:49:02 PM PST by big'ol_freeper (Mitt to supporters: "DON'T TRY TO DEFEND MY LIBERAL RECORD. BELITTLE THEM WITH PERSONAL ATTACKS")
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To: greyfoxx39

mark


242 posted on 12/29/2007 2:49:43 PM PST by JDoutrider
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To: Jim Robinson
OUCH!! That has GOT to hurt!!

Apply directly to forehead!

243 posted on 12/29/2007 2:51:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jim Robinson

~”Some of you guys are pushing the abortionist, gay agenda advancing, gun grabbing, big government socialist nanny state lying liberal RINO BECAUSE of his religion.”~

While I reject your premise that Romney is as despicable as you say, it’s true that some Mormons are supporting him for his religion. Some of the people on this thread have seen me decry that in the past, too. Still, the number is not as high as some like to proclaim. I would venture to guess that half the Mormons on FR have been politically behind candidates other than Romney. I’m in the part of the other half that finds him to be an acceptable, and even admirable, candidate in his own right.

~”Conservatives are pushing back.”~

Yeah. By supporting Huckabee. Give me a break. If conservatives were pushing back against Romney, what happened to Hunter? Where’s Thompson going? Tancredo? Brownback? Even combined these people don’t amount to a serious candidate.

There’s a peculiar brand of narrow vision amongst many conservative activists that seems to compel them to proclaim that imperfection is unacceptable. As represented by the polls - where the best conservatives have been utterly defeated - these conservative activists aren’t nearly so influential as they like to think. Is Romney perfect? Of course not. He’s the best available option, though, and to doggedly hold to any of the failed candidacies in the face of this cold reality is to cut off your nose to spite your face. Tancredo’s gone. Hunter and Brownback are DOA. Thompson’s singing his swan song. Between Giuliani, Huckabee, McCain, and Romney, I will choose Mitt Romney each and every time.

~”And it’s perfectly within their rights.”~

Of course it is within their rights.

~”NOTHING un-American about it.”~

Of course it is un-American. There’s very little that could be more un-American. Killing puppies is all that comes to mind.

~”If you can’t stand the heat, get out!”~

I’m here, aren’t I? The heat doesn’t bother me at all. That’s the dividend of being cocky.


244 posted on 12/29/2007 2:56:23 PM PST by tantiboh
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To: Elsie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAbAIpZG7II


245 posted on 12/29/2007 2:56:48 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: tantiboh

Is this an FRexample of ‘Taunting the Tiger’?


246 posted on 12/29/2007 2:57:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

~”If you do not wish to waste your valuable time reading it; don’t.”~

Oh, don’t worry, that part’s already sorted.


247 posted on 12/29/2007 2:58:59 PM PST by tantiboh
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To: greyfoxx39

Re. your post 190:

A great re-post!!! I hadn’t seen before this example of Jim Robinson’s take on Mormons complaining of the FREE airing of opinions about Romney’s core faith.

Thanks!


248 posted on 12/29/2007 3:02:25 PM PST by rightazrain (GO FRED!!!!)
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To: Elsie
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.

Elsie, it is so silly of you running around shouting that quote of what a 14 year old said to his mother as if you have struck “gold.”
Almost every denomination thinks the others are not “true.” That is the justification for forming a new denomination.
And you think that is the justification for all the crap that has been spewed out on this and other like treads.
I feel like a spectator watching a bunch of losers go out of their gourds.
249 posted on 12/29/2007 3:02:37 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: Elsie
Is this an FRexample of ‘Taunting the Tiger’?

Well, I got the song already to go, just in case......

You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with Jim, da do da do...

250 posted on 12/29/2007 3:05:24 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (Mitt.... despite what some here are saying. it wasn’t a lie! It was a BLUNDER...by Romney supporter.)
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