Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

So Many Crimes, and Reasons to Not Cooperate
NY Times ^ | 30 December 2007 | DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI

Posted on 12/30/2007 7:24:30 AM PST by shrinkermd

“Snitching, telling on people, isn’t something that I personally would involve myself with,” she said in an interview last week. “People don’t want to talk to you if they think you’re a snitch. If they were your friends, they’re not your friends anymore. You’re left totally all alone.”

As the most violent neighborhood in one of the nation’s most dangerous cities, the Whitman Park section of Camden is on the front lines of the struggle with witness intimidation. An array of powerful forces converge here to discourage people from cooperating with the investigation of crimes — crimes committed against their own homes, their own neighbors, their own children.

Drugs are sold openly from street corners and abandoned row houses. Gunfire is a neighborhood soundtrack. And the competing gangs that control Whitman Park have made it clear that the price for defying them is death. Within blocks of the street where Ms. Glasco’s son was killed, six people were murdered in less than a year.

Yet many residents of Whitman Park say their reluctance to help investigators is based on more than just fear of gang retaliation. It is also a consequence of their deep distrust of the local police and prosecutors and politicians. Like residents of many other struggling, predominantly black and Hispanic neighborhoods across the country, people here complain that racial profiling, police corruption and the excesses of the war on drugs have made them suspicious of virtually any arm of government.

...Camden’s government has been under state supervision for nearly 20 years because of corruption, so the police do not report to her.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: camden; crime; snitch
Mistaken assumptions of racism has resulted in an acceptance of psychopathy, crime and violence as acceptable alternatives to civilized living.
1 posted on 12/30/2007 7:24:35 AM PST by shrinkermd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd

Either that, or maybe they are correct and the government of New Jersey really is corrupt.


2 posted on 12/30/2007 7:28:10 AM PST by proxy_user
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd

To paraphrase Golda Meir, “It will stop when they love their children more than they hate whites.”


3 posted on 12/30/2007 7:28:42 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: L98Fiero
To paraphrase Golda Meir, “It will stop when they love their children more than they hate whites.”

Well, don't worry Hillary, Jesse and Al will solve all their problems.

4 posted on 12/30/2007 7:37:44 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd

This sort of thinking is precisely why minorities will remain in the same rut, economically and socially, in which they are currently find themselves.

Where is the help and guidance from their “benefactors” on the left? Really, it is difficult to believe so large a group of people could be so abysmally uninformed and blind to how they are being manipulated over so long a period of time.


5 posted on 12/30/2007 7:39:55 AM PST by aroundabout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: proxy_user
Either that, or maybe they are correct and the government of New Jersey really is corrupt.

LOL, geez, ya think? BTW, remember those 11 NJ Congress people that were arrested earlier in the year (corruption) and led away in handcuffs? Whatever happened to them? Imagine had they been Republicans?

6 posted on 12/30/2007 7:42:08 AM PST by aroundabout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: aroundabout

Blind leading the blind over the cliff.


7 posted on 12/30/2007 7:43:10 AM PST by flynmudd (Proud Navy Mom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: aroundabout
This sort of thinking is precisely why minorities will remain in the same rut, economically and socially, in which they are currently find themselves.

Well there are people in these cities who would cooperate with law enforcement to prosecute criminals but don't out of fear of retaliation. While I don't normally like to suggest a new government program to fix things, I do believe that a witness protection program at the state level would help in these situations.

Or better yet, have these criminals be prosecuted under federal gun laws, as the federal system already includes a witness protection program.

8 posted on 12/30/2007 7:43:49 AM PST by pnh102
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd
...Camden’s government has been under state supervision for nearly 20 years because of corruption, so the police do not report to her.

Do you think this might have something to do with it?

9 posted on 12/30/2007 7:45:35 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd
Mistaken assumptions of racism has resulted in an acceptance of psychopathy, crime and violence as acceptable alternatives to civilized living.

Yes, and I'll propose that the "War on Some Drug Users" itself strikes at the heart of civil behavior. Combine that with local laws that throttle market-price housing, and small business activity. Add welfare payments that mute the pain of bad career choices and - voila.

10 posted on 12/30/2007 7:46:06 AM PST by secretagent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: flynmudd

Yup, and they’ll blame “whitey” for their woes and there will be dead silence from the left.


11 posted on 12/30/2007 7:51:19 AM PST by aroundabout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: aroundabout
Where is the help and guidance from their “benefactors” on the left? Really, it is difficult to believe so large a group of people could be so abysmally uninformed and blind to how they are being manipulated over so long a period of time.

to answer your question -- those "benefactors" are right there giving them all the help they can -- to finish the job of ripping the country apart they started over 60 years ago.

12 posted on 12/30/2007 7:54:06 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (Be thankful we’re not getting all the government we’re paying for. WILL ROGERS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Lorianne

FYI


13 posted on 12/30/2007 7:55:33 AM PST by secretagent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Turret Gunner A20
All the leading Democratic presidential candidates have said they would not advise people to turn in illegal immigrants they found out about or had knowledge of, what’s different here?
14 posted on 12/30/2007 8:01:15 AM PST by Old North State
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd
Every stat I see indicates that the serious crimes committed by black thugs (murder,rape,kidnapping,etc) are committed against fellow blacks.So refusing to “snitch” would seem to be decidedly counterproductive.
15 posted on 12/30/2007 8:02:05 AM PST by Gay State Conservative (Wanna see how bad it can get? Elect Hillary and find out.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Old North State

They need to import a few Iraquis and have them set up “Concerned Citizens” groups....it worked to put down islamic terrorists so should also work on the local youts.


16 posted on 12/30/2007 8:04:56 AM PST by spokeshave (Hey GOP...NO money till border closed and criminal illegals deported)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Old North State
All the leading Democratic presidential candidates have said they would not advise people to turn in illegal immigrants they found out about or had knowledge of, what’s different here?

Nothing -- you named it -- they are demorats -- some of those "benefactors" we're talking about.

17 posted on 12/30/2007 8:06:22 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (Be thankful we’re not getting all the government we’re paying for. WILL ROGERS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd
Camden is a hell hole.

IMO the city should be Federalized, i.e.: Declare Martial Law, send in the Marines and a set up a Provisional Government like Iraq (just DON'T send Bremmer).

Better yet, send in the Corps of Engineers and just level the friggin place and start over (And send all 'miscreants' directly to GITMO).

18 posted on 12/30/2007 8:09:50 AM PST by Condor51 (I wouldn't vote for Rooty under any circumstance -- even if Waterboarded!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Turret Gunner A20

It’s been 20 years and the place is worse than ever.Maybe it’s time to send in the Marines on a search and destroy mission.The locals like to shoot,well the Marines LOVE to shoot.


19 posted on 12/30/2007 8:14:15 AM PST by Farmer Dean (168 grains of instant conflict resolution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd

“...crime and violence as acceptable alternatives to civilized living.”

This sounds like a good definition of barbarians. And that is exactly what they are. They choose to be barbarians. They do not want the responsibilities of civilization. This attitude has been imported from one particular continent.


20 posted on 12/30/2007 8:16:21 AM PST by abclily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abclily
They choose to be barbarians... This attitude has been imported from one particular continent.

Idiotic comment. There is nothing genetic about barbarism. Members of all races have been at times prime examples of the type.

Read Theodore Dalrymple for commentary on the white English underclass, which has pathologies identical to those of the black American underclass.

21 posted on 12/30/2007 8:24:17 AM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Turret Gunner A20

“Well, don’t worry Hillary, Jesse and Al will solve all their problems.”

You can bet their problems won’t be solved by three self-absorbed crooks.


22 posted on 12/30/2007 8:26:58 AM PST by popdonnelly (Get Reid. Salazar, and Harkin out of the Senate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

Not an idiotic comment. It’s no wonder Afica was referred to as the dark continent. And Africans are still practicing slavery today. What are the most positive things that have come out of Africa?


23 posted on 12/30/2007 8:29:34 AM PST by abclily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd

It would take a military occupation to straighten out this mess.


24 posted on 12/30/2007 8:31:18 AM PST by popdonnelly (Get Reid. Salazar, and Harkin out of the Senate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aroundabout
minorities will remain in the same rut

If only the rut would stay the same. It's not. It's getting deeper and deeper. Compare the state of that culture with what it was fifty years ago. Compare the state of our inner cities. They're much worse.

25 posted on 12/30/2007 8:35:28 AM PST by ladyjane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

Yes, “Life at the Bottom”. I give the book to liberals who claim that minorities in this country are the way they are because of white racism.


26 posted on 12/30/2007 8:40:14 AM PST by diefree
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Old North State

All the leading Democratic presidential candidates have said they would not advise people to turn in illegal immigrants they found out about or had knowledge of, what’s different here?”

I hadn’t heard those quotes.
Now I have even more reason to do just that. There is a local roofing company that has trucks full of non-English speaking “workers”. Time to call them in.


27 posted on 12/30/2007 8:52:08 AM PST by ridesthemiles
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

“An array of powerful forces.......” prevents cooperation with the police. How about one overriding force: a totally depraved and wholly decadent subculture without morals, responsibility, decency, self respect, or respect for others. The subculture is celebrated by the community’s leading artists and pandered to by race hustling politicians. It’s really not all that complicated.
28 posted on 12/30/2007 9:00:02 AM PST by Godwin1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd

“...people here complain that racial profiling, police corruption and the excesses of the war on drugs have made them suspicious of virtually any arm of government.”

Geeez! 26 words wasted when “It’s Whiteys fault!” would have said the same thing in less space.


29 posted on 12/30/2007 9:19:43 AM PST by Bogtrotter52 (Reading DU daily so you won't hafta)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aroundabout

They complain when the police cant solve the murders, then when the police ask for help, they proudly wear thier “Stop Snitching” T shirts and embrace the tribal urges.


30 posted on 12/30/2007 9:42:32 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( The Democrats are a stench in the nostrals of honest citizens.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: abclily

Africa is admittedly the most barbaric continent today, and admittedly many black Americans are barbaric.

The idiocy comes from claiming that modern Americans are barbaric because (some of) their ancestors hail from Africa and/or that barbarism needs to be imported. We are all capable of it, and as I mentioned identical behavior is common in (white) members of the English underclass.

If black Americans are barbaric because of their genetic inheritance, how do you explain this?

I prefer to think that (modern) barbarism is the consequence of bad ideas, primarily promoted by the intelligentsia, which have very negative effects when sliding down to the underclass. Whatever its color or ancestry.


31 posted on 12/30/2007 9:42:58 AM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd

With this kind of “ethic”, it’s no wonder that white flight takes place when the neighborhood becomes integrated. All you need do is hearken back to a time when the thug culture didn’t exist and notifying the police for the purpose of catching criminals wasn’t known as “snitching”.


32 posted on 12/30/2007 10:45:45 AM PST by RedCobra
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan

I know we are all capable of barbarism. Some of us choose not to be barbaric.

It is the attitude of certain cultures that gets imported. I said nothing about genetics.


33 posted on 12/30/2007 10:51:02 AM PST by abclily
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Condor51
Better yet, send in the Corps of Engineers and just level the friggin place and start over -- problem solved

(And send all 'miscreants' directly to GITMO).

'Sparky is cheaper -- and so is a length of hemp (not the smoking kind)>

34 posted on 12/30/2007 11:18:22 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (Be thankful we’re not getting all the government we’re paying for. WILL ROGERS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Farmer Dean
It’s been 20 years and the place is worse than ever.Maybe it’s time to send in the Marines on a search and destroy mission.The locals like to shoot,well the Marines LOVE to shoot.

Save me a seat.

35 posted on 12/30/2007 11:19:54 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (Be thankful we’re not getting all the government we’re paying for. WILL ROGERS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: popdonnelly
You can bet their problems won’t be solved by three self-absorbed crooks.

You wouldn't be hinting that those three upstanding thugs might be dihonest, are you? FOR SHAME!!!!

36 posted on 12/30/2007 11:23:50 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (Be thankful we’re not getting all the government we’re paying for. WILL ROGERS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Bogtrotter52
Geeez! 26 words wasted when “It’s Whiteys fault!” would have said the same thing in less space.

I can even beat that. Blame Bush!

37 posted on 12/30/2007 11:29:37 AM PST by Turret Gunner A20 (Be thankful we’re not getting all the government we’re paying for. WILL ROGERS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: shrinkermd
Camden = WORST city in America! Makes Detroit, Jackson, and even Opa Locka Florida look like New Canaan or Palos Verdes.

Of course, you also have Chester, PA a few miles down river, to say nothing of Killadelphia (which at least has Center City, every nabe outside of CC being really bad) right across the river.

Camden has not even had liveable NEIGHBORHOODS since the mid-1960s. It has only gotten worse over the decades.

\


38 posted on 12/30/2007 11:39:23 AM PST by Clemenza (I NO Heart Huckabee)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
I prefer to think that (modern) barbarism is the consequence of bad ideas, primarily promoted by the intelligentsia, which have very negative effects when sliding down to the underclass. Whatever its color or ancestry.

Read "IQ and the Wealth of Nations" and "The Bell Curve" and you may change what you think. It's interesting that you phrase this "I prefer to think..." As good Americans we are brought up in a culture that praises achievement and promotes the idea of essential equality. I have never had people get so made at me in discussion as when I suggest that there may be a large genetic component to some problems. They strongly "prefer" not to think that. To the point of anger for pointing out that their preference is subverting their ability to think logically.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure that anyone who argues, in the face of a large body of evidence, that the black underclass and blacks in Africa's problems are all 100% nuture and 0% nature is simply repeating a religious belief. (ie: all men are created equal).

39 posted on 12/30/2007 12:18:00 PM PST by Jack Black
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Jack Black

Black underclass in America: illegitimacy, violence, drug addiction, despair, blaming of all problems on others.

White underclass in Britain: illegitimacy, violence, drug addiction, despair, blaming of all problems on others.

Obviously the problem is genetic.

I’m not adamant that the problem cannot involve genetics. As actual evidence is found proving a large genetic component, I’ll be willing to accept it. It’s just that the genetics that might be involved in such complex behaviors are far beyond our present ability to underestand, being far more complex than even the determination of a genetic component to the inheritance of raw intelligence.


40 posted on 12/30/2007 12:27:22 PM PST by Sherman Logan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Condor51

I guess Camden has changed some in the last ~50 years....


41 posted on 12/30/2007 1:57:05 PM PST by dakine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Yorlik803

It brings to mind the law of Natural Selection.


42 posted on 01/01/2008 6:05:21 AM PST by aroundabout
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Clemenza

I could show you areas around Pittsburgh that could be a poster child for urban blight.
There is a town called Braddock that looks like it could be a stand in for Stalingrad after the Germans surrendered.


43 posted on 01/01/2008 7:35:19 AM PST by Yorlik803 ( The Democrats are a stench in the nostrals of honest citizens.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson