Skip to comments.Romney on Boy Scouts
Posted on 01/02/2008 10:39:29 AM PST by Maelstorm
Alright! Mitt is for gays in the Boy Scouts. Flush him, Guliani and Huckabee.
How this guy can claim to be a conservative is beyond me.
I didn’t like Romney because of his socialized medicine plan in MA.
Now that I realize how socially liberal Romney has always been (until a month or so ago) with gay boyscout leaders, strongly pro-abortion, etc., I have been very disgusted with him.
That’s OK, the conservatives in Mass think he walks on water, so that’s good enough for me.
When you’re a pathological liar with lots of money, no conscience and an obsession for the WH on par with Al Gore, you can claim to be anything to get elected...
He never had my vote in the first place. But this will ensure he’ll lose alot more.
There’s more flip flops with Mitt than there are on the beach...
Mitt is NOT a conservative....
And the Romney alleluia chorus remains strangely silent...
Don’t worry! It’s just a matter of moments till the Mass. conservatives show up to assure us he’s a real down to earth conservative. Never mind that liberal behind the curtain he’s just like Ronald Reagan maybe a tad more conservative. He was only liberal because he was in Mass. blah!blah!blah!
Probably in their BorgRomney regeneration chamber.
Wonder if Mormons would welcome a gay leader, just like they finally acknowledged that blacks can get into heaven, too. I'm getting to like this guy less and less.
By the end of this whole thing, Rudy may end up looking like the most honest among them. At least his flaws, inconsistencies, and sins are an open book. Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony if the most secular ended up looking the most genuine?
This is good, too.
At a glance, I respecfully disagree with your comments about LDS Scouts. Way too general in context just to name one disagreement.
The units I’ve dealt with have all had some peculiar requests, much like Jewish Troops do, but I don’t think that makes them guilty of disregarding basic Scouting principles. To give one example; They don’t like to travel on Sundays which makes summer camp interesting on Mondays when they arrive and are trying to check in when the program is getting started, likewise Camporees when they bug out on Sat. night.
I have yet to see the UW give money directly to any Scout unit. Most often it goes to the Council who then divies up what paltry few dollars are given by them.
As for the lost Scouts, do you have facts to back up your overgeneralization? That is not just an LDS problem, there are many other instances of Scouts going off and getting lost, I don’t see how that makes it a strictly LDS problem.
As for the isolationist comment, I will disagree with that as well. It may be peculiar to certain areas or Troops, but I don’t honestly believe it to be systemic as you profess to claim. I’ve seen quite a bit differently out here.
The problems I do have with LDS units are the high turnover rate in leaders and the lack of training these leaders get. Another is the fact that their ward leadership doesn’t seem to make it important either. To me, that is the crux of the problem. Many are just plain ignorant of the rules. How do I know? I’m the District Training Chair for my District as well as a Scoutmaster.
Maybe your experiences with LDS Scouts are different than mine.
If you think that clip is so terrible, what do you think should be his policy toward the Boy Scouts?
He said he was for the Boy Scouts deciding who they want for leaders, in other words no homosexual leaders.
He said all boys should be able to participate regardless of sexual orientation. In other words they are not going to try to decide if a boy is homosexual. Does that mean you are in favor of a screening process? What do you think that screening process should be like?
You have a point here, but at least Mitt has the decency to pay lip service to conservatism while Rudy just gives it the bird.
Thank you for your reply. My husband was also a District Chairman and my three Eagle sons worked at our local camp as counselors. Your experience with LDS troops was different. Other than Special Needs Scouting, we did not have specific needs troops like kosher troops, etc. The LDS troops (and I think that there were only two, at most) were problematic. They were good people and totally committed to their children. However, the worldwide scouting program has been honed and perfected over decades and works. Their alterations might have worked for them but created distractions from other people doing their jobs in a larger camp environment. These people didn’t even like to have non-troop personnel sitting near them when they discussed their activities. In a word, they were segregationist and demanding, not team players.
I just listened to that YouTube clip.
Romney simply said that all people should be allowed to join the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation.
He didn’t say he wants the Boy Scouts to teach boys how to be gay.
He didn’t say that it is perfectly OK to be a gay scout leader, or that he wanted openly homosexual men or boys openly practice their predatory habits in the Boy Scouts.
Sheesh! You Romney bashers hear only what you want to hear, regardless of reality.
Sickening, isn’t it?
Actually, his exact words were "all people", not "all boys". To me, the term "all people" means just that - Scouts as well as their leaders.
His words were: "allowed to participate in", not "allowed to join".
As an employer, they are great employees. They are honest, have great family values, etc. They make the amount of money they want to make and won't give extra time if that makes somebody else's business more profitable. Within Mormon companies, there appear to be "tracks" and non-Mormons are less likely to advance than Mormons. They are entitled to their way of doing things, but don't count on them to be playing on your team if you are the captain.
And it doesn’t matter what the Church feels about gay scout leaders. As a practical matter, if for no other reason, the BSA has found they can’t afford the law suits some gay leaders have been generating.
I know of some cases where some LDS youth groups actually went and visited other churches.
And I have worked in industry most of my career (mostly around non-LDS with just a few LDS) and I haveb’t seen any difference in the way Mormons integrate into groups.
I didn’t know there were any conservatives in Mass!
Actually, his exact words were “all people”, not “all boys”. To me, the term “all people” means just that - Scouts as well as their leaders.
Had he said "all boys" rather that "all people", I might agree with you. His statement made no distinction between Scouts and their leaders.
He doesn't have to say anything. One the camels nose is in the tent, it will be in the tent. He says its OK for gays to be in the scouts, guess whats next? It aint gonna be the scouts agenda, it'll be theirs! So I guess since Mitt didn't explicitly say gays shouldn't openly practice their preditory habits, we should just let them in and assume they won't? I'm proud to be a Mitt basher. Much better than being a Romney denier!
Translation: Gays should be allowed to participate in Scouting.
Our experience has been that Scouting is a type of youth group for the LDS church. If you join the Troop, they want you to come to the church. But they do not participate on Scout get-togethers. They remain separate and autonomous.
They are also the only troops to put their church affiliation in their flag. I personally think it is a great idea but I wish they participated more in Council stuff.
Thank you. We seem to be in the minority but our experience is that they stay very separate, to the point of making extra work for camp staff. Others talk about what great scouters they are. I don’t know if their program even follows the guidelines that ours do but there appears to be no oversight from council about what they do. One difference pointed out by another non-Mormon scout family in Utah was that they don’t adhere to the two-deep rule of supervision.
He is from Mass. Of course he is a queer lover.
A man from Mass can not be elected. He is from Mass.
Ok, the title alone was worth the post...
First of all, congratulations on your Eagle Scouts! Good job mom and dad.
Yes, most of the LDS folks I know are good people and yet, prone to the foibles of too closely following church doctrine as it relates to their youth programs.
They believe that Scouting is a part of their church youth program, not an enhancement and therefore, they have the right to modify it as they see fit. In truth, Scouting is a separate entity that can be used for the furthering of their youth programs. Yet, most of the LDS leaders that have failing programs don’t understand why their programs are failing.
No disagreement on the perfecting of the Scouting program. I truly believe in the Scouting Mission and Values. Yes, there have been instances where LDS leaders have made things difficult with “unreasonable” demands(?), yet, we make a concerted effort to let them know it’s not about them, it’s about the boys.
The groups you have dealt with sound quite obstinate and unfortunately, secretive in their approach. Did you notice a lot of “basketball Eagles”? That’s what we call some of the programs here. My job is to bring most if not all of these units into the fold and get them to understand the importance of following the program as it is intended.
They can modify certain aspects to suit their religious beliefs (Sunday travel for instance), but I believe, based on your observations and experiences that those leaders you dealt with are doing their boys a grave disservice.
I am currently working with an LDS unit trying to get their program rebuilt after three years of basically no trained leadership with some church meddling thrown in and I occassionally run into some resistance. I just gently remind them of the agreement we made about me running a Boy Scouts of America program, not an LDS Boy Scout program.
I am training their adult leaders, teaching the boys how to be leaders and building a trained Troop Cmte. that will hopefully not slip backwards once I’m done. This unit had no boy led-boy run program, no committee, no trained adult leaders, etc.
It’s been almost a year now. I have about a year to go I think before I believe I’d feel comfortable turning them loose to see what they can do. I think the biggest thing that has helped me be successful to this point is their bishop who has bought into it whole hog. He wants a quality program, not only for his son, but all the others as well and doesn’t tolerate any unnecessary interference (what that means yet I don’t rightly know) in what I’m doing.
I even convinced him to let me take the Troop to Summer Camp last year over a Sunday. The deal was that their youth leaders would conduct a Sunday service and the boys had to kind of keep it quiet, but it was a victory in the sense that I was able to use logic and convince him of the difficulties in arriving on Monday morning as opposed to arriving on Saturday and be ready, rested and raring to go on Monday morning. Now we’ll see what we can do about this year since the camp we’re going to doesn’t allow Sat. arrivals.;-)
IMHO, it was a lot more than slightly ambiguous and deliberately so.
His answer consisted of three parts: 1) He thinks the Boy Scouts do a great service, 2) he supports them making their own decisions on policy (no to gays in leadership), but 3) he thinks that all people should be allowed to participate regardless of their sexual orientation (yes to gays in leadership).
If they aren’t following the 2 deep leadership principle, then they should be warned about that by Council. If Council is run by predominantly LDS, then they need to elevate the issue to Region. That is absolutely unacceptable.
In some ways, the LDS units have been out front. The LDS started a Vanguard program in 1928, and the BSA patterned the Explorer program after this in 1933. The Varsity program was started jointly by LDS units with BSA participation. It was finally adopted by the full BSA in 1983.
So there has been accommodation and give and take along the way.
Gee whiz—you’re a saint to give it a go. I wonder if one of the reasons the LDS people at my sons’ camp were so protective about others at camp watching what they were doing was because they weren’t allowing the boys to have enough leadership responsibility, etc. When you live with a ward chairman watching you, it’s hard to understand the importance of giving up control to the rank-and-file members. It’s about control and authority. Giving a boy room to fail as well as room to succeed on his own is very threatening to some people. Best wishes to you in your quest.
Interesting for an LDS to take this stance on Scouts.
You play with words, my friend.
A young kid who might think of himself as "gay" should certainly be allowed to participated in Boy Scouts, just like they should be able to attend church, or get a bank account, or join the Republican Party.
That doesn't mean we allow kids to practice or promote their gay lifestyle. The Scouts, with adult supervision, should teach kids to walk the straight and narrow.
Do you really propose we ask all youngsters who would join the Scouts to pledge on their sacred honor that they never entertained a gay thought??
And if they say yes, do we ban them for life?
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Think Mass. Not Utah.
Utah LDS is Scouts
See post #41 from someone who summarizes the clip. It says that Romney supports gay participation in the Boy Scouts.
This is serious.
Romney is now in the same category as Rudy with me. I simply cannot support him if he wins the Republican nomination.
Though I had serious reservations about his Mormonism, I was willing to overlook that if Romney proved to be a genuine conservative; however, what is now obvious is that he is a liberal through and through, and I WILL NOT vote for a liberal simply because he is a Republican.