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Romney on Boy Scouts
http://www.youtube.com/ ^ | romneyrecord

Posted on 01/02/2008 10:39:29 AM PST by Maelstorm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEOJNw4lmlI


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bsa; gay; homosexualagenda; romney; scouts
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1 posted on 01/02/2008 10:39:31 AM PST by Maelstorm
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To: Maelstorm
Go Flip Go!


2 posted on 01/02/2008 10:41:02 AM PST by Antoninus (If you want the national GOP to look more like the Massachusetts GOP, vote for Flip Romney)
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To: Maelstorm

Alright! Mitt is for gays in the Boy Scouts. Flush him, Guliani and Huckabee.


3 posted on 01/02/2008 10:43:06 AM PST by Bommer ("He that controls the spice controls the universe!" (unfortunately that spice is Nutmeg!)
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To: Maelstorm

How this guy can claim to be a conservative is beyond me.

I didn’t like Romney because of his socialized medicine plan in MA.

Now that I realize how socially liberal Romney has always been (until a month or so ago) with gay boyscout leaders, strongly pro-abortion, etc., I have been very disgusted with him.


4 posted on 01/02/2008 10:44:56 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian
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To: Maelstorm

That’s OK, the conservatives in Mass think he walks on water, so that’s good enough for me.

/sarcasm.


5 posted on 01/02/2008 10:45:18 AM PST by Rb ver. 2.0 (Global warming is the new Marxism.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

When you’re a pathological liar with lots of money, no conscience and an obsession for the WH on par with Al Gore, you can claim to be anything to get elected...


6 posted on 01/02/2008 10:47:31 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: Antoninus

He never had my vote in the first place. But this will ensure he’ll lose alot more.


7 posted on 01/02/2008 10:49:15 AM PST by tpanther
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To: Rb ver. 2.0
That’s OK, the conservatives in Mass think he walks on water, so that’s good enough for me.

Hey, don't forget that Bay Buchanan and Tom Tancredo love him, too!

Boy, this election is really flushing the skunks out of the underbrush.
8 posted on 01/02/2008 10:53:40 AM PST by Antoninus (If you want the national GOP to look more like the Massachusetts GOP, vote for Flip Romney)
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To: fieldmarshaldj
When you’re a pathological liar with lots of money, no conscience and an obsession for the WH on par with Al Gore, you can claim to be anything to get elected...

I think that about sums up Flip Romney.
9 posted on 01/02/2008 10:54:16 AM PST by Antoninus (If you want the national GOP to look more like the Massachusetts GOP, vote for Flip Romney)
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To: Maelstorm

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

There’s more flip flops with Mitt than there are on the beach...

Mitt is NOT a conservative....


10 posted on 01/02/2008 11:00:10 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Maelstorm; Reaganesque

And the Romney alleluia chorus remains strangely silent...


11 posted on 01/02/2008 11:01:03 AM PST by Antoninus (If you want the national GOP to look more like the Massachusetts GOP, vote for Flip Romney)
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To: Maelstorm

Don’t worry! It’s just a matter of moments till the Mass. conservatives show up to assure us he’s a real down to earth conservative. Never mind that liberal behind the curtain he’s just like Ronald Reagan maybe a tad more conservative. He was only liberal because he was in Mass. blah!blah!blah!


12 posted on 01/02/2008 11:02:48 AM PST by ontap (Just another backstabbing conservative)
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To: Antoninus

Probably in their BorgRomney regeneration chamber.


13 posted on 01/02/2008 11:04:58 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (~~~Jihad Fever -- Catch It !~~~ (Backup tag: "Live Fred or Die"))
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To: Bommer
The Mormons have always been a problem for the Scouts. They have their own program which disregards basic scouting principles. For example, they don't keep the max ratio of two boys per one adult. Consequently, when a scout gets lost, ever notice how many of those incidents are in Utah or happening to a Mormon troop. They want to be part of the program and get the United Way money but they don't go along with the basics of the program. They are very isolationist when doing camp-wide activities. They want to use the camp sites but not have the same hours for the swimming pool, etc.

Wonder if Mormons would welcome a gay leader, just like they finally acknowledged that blacks can get into heaven, too. I'm getting to like this guy less and less.

By the end of this whole thing, Rudy may end up looking like the most honest among them. At least his flaws, inconsistencies, and sins are an open book. Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony if the most secular ended up looking the most genuine?

14 posted on 01/02/2008 11:06:15 AM PST by MHT
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To: Antoninus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GFqqYAoBc0&feature=related

This is good, too.

15 posted on 01/02/2008 11:09:12 AM PST by MHT
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To: MHT

At a glance, I respecfully disagree with your comments about LDS Scouts. Way too general in context just to name one disagreement.

The units I’ve dealt with have all had some peculiar requests, much like Jewish Troops do, but I don’t think that makes them guilty of disregarding basic Scouting principles. To give one example; They don’t like to travel on Sundays which makes summer camp interesting on Mondays when they arrive and are trying to check in when the program is getting started, likewise Camporees when they bug out on Sat. night.

I have yet to see the UW give money directly to any Scout unit. Most often it goes to the Council who then divies up what paltry few dollars are given by them.

As for the lost Scouts, do you have facts to back up your overgeneralization? That is not just an LDS problem, there are many other instances of Scouts going off and getting lost, I don’t see how that makes it a strictly LDS problem.

As for the isolationist comment, I will disagree with that as well. It may be peculiar to certain areas or Troops, but I don’t honestly believe it to be systemic as you profess to claim. I’ve seen quite a bit differently out here.

The problems I do have with LDS units are the high turnover rate in leaders and the lack of training these leaders get. Another is the fact that their ward leadership doesn’t seem to make it important either. To me, that is the crux of the problem. Many are just plain ignorant of the rules. How do I know? I’m the District Training Chair for my District as well as a Scoutmaster.

Maybe your experiences with LDS Scouts are different than mine.

FRegards,

SZ


16 posted on 01/02/2008 11:29:19 AM PST by SZonian (Who gives a crap? It's just my opinion anyway.)
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To: MHT
By the end of this whole thing, Rudy may end up looking like the most honest among them. At least his flaws, inconsistencies, and sins are an open book.

Let's not get carried away, now. In my book, both of these guys have disqualifying flaws. Flip is just trying to paper over his in an egregiously pandering and disingenuous way. This type of politician should be anathema to conservatives.
17 posted on 01/02/2008 11:31:54 AM PST by Antoninus (If you want the national GOP to look more like the Massachusetts GOP, vote for Flip Romney)
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To: Maelstorm

If you think that clip is so terrible, what do you think should be his policy toward the Boy Scouts?

He said he was for the Boy Scouts deciding who they want for leaders, in other words no homosexual leaders.

He said all boys should be able to participate regardless of sexual orientation. In other words they are not going to try to decide if a boy is homosexual. Does that mean you are in favor of a screening process? What do you think that screening process should be like?


18 posted on 01/02/2008 11:33:58 AM PST by broncobilly
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To: MHT
"Rudy may end up looking like the most honest among them. At least his flaws, inconsistencies, and sins are an open book. Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony if the most secular ended up looking the most genuine?"

==========================================

You have a point here, but at least Mitt has the decency to pay lip service to conservatism while Rudy just gives it the bird.

19 posted on 01/02/2008 11:38:55 AM PST by Manic_Episode (Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps...)
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To: SZonian

Thank you for your reply. My husband was also a District Chairman and my three Eagle sons worked at our local camp as counselors. Your experience with LDS troops was different. Other than Special Needs Scouting, we did not have specific needs troops like kosher troops, etc. The LDS troops (and I think that there were only two, at most) were problematic. They were good people and totally committed to their children. However, the worldwide scouting program has been honed and perfected over decades and works. Their alterations might have worked for them but created distractions from other people doing their jobs in a larger camp environment. These people didn’t even like to have non-troop personnel sitting near them when they discussed their activities. In a word, they were segregationist and demanding, not team players.


20 posted on 01/02/2008 11:50:41 AM PST by MHT
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To: Bommer

I just listened to that YouTube clip.

Romney simply said that all people should be allowed to join the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation.

He didn’t say he wants the Boy Scouts to teach boys how to be gay.

He didn’t say that it is perfectly OK to be a gay scout leader, or that he wanted openly homosexual men or boys openly practice their predatory habits in the Boy Scouts.

Sheesh! You Romney bashers hear only what you want to hear, regardless of reality.


21 posted on 01/02/2008 11:58:20 AM PST by Edit35
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To: Rock&RollRepublican
You are the one stretching a point. Romney has hung himself on this one.
22 posted on 01/02/2008 12:01:04 PM PST by bmwcyle (BOMB, BOMB, BOMB,.......BOMB, BOMB IRAN)
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To: Rock&RollRepublican

Sickening, isn’t it?


23 posted on 01/02/2008 12:21:26 PM PST by NYC Republican
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To: MHT
It is hard for me to tell how significant your specific charges are.
However, I think the BSA greatly appreciates the support of the LDS to Scouting. The LDS Church was given a charter in 1913 and was the first organization in the US to become an “official” sponsor of Scouting. The last time I looked the LDS had the largest number of units of any sponsoring organization. It also had the third most boys enrolled in any sponsoring organization. Scouting is so important to the LDS, I doubt if there is any LDS congregation of normal size that is not sponsoring a scout unit.
24 posted on 01/02/2008 12:25:23 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: broncobilly
He said all boys should be able to participate regardless of sexual orientation. In other words they are not going to try to decide if a boy is homosexual. Does that mean you are in favor of a screening process? What do you think that screening process should be like?

Actually, his exact words were "all people", not "all boys". To me, the term "all people" means just that - Scouts as well as their leaders.

25 posted on 01/02/2008 12:39:01 PM PST by Bob
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To: Rock&RollRepublican
Romney simply said that all people should be allowed to join the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation.

His words were: "allowed to participate in", not "allowed to join".

26 posted on 01/02/2008 12:42:57 PM PST by Bob
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To: broncobilly
Yes, the mission of scouting fits in perfectly with their belief system. However, as in everything else, they do it THEIR way. It is that way if you employ them and their way is the only way if you befriend them. A friend in Utah (non-Mormon) was upset because her kids' Mormon friends were always asking them to go to church and making a big deal of their recruitment. She finally told the parents that her children could go to the LDS church after the Mormon kids had visited their Methodist church. Needless to say, the cross-visitation didn't occur and the LDS kids quit asking.

As an employer, they are great employees. They are honest, have great family values, etc. They make the amount of money they want to make and won't give extra time if that makes somebody else's business more profitable. Within Mormon companies, there appear to be "tracks" and non-Mormons are less likely to advance than Mormons. They are entitled to their way of doing things, but don't count on them to be playing on your team if you are the captain.

27 posted on 01/02/2008 12:45:20 PM PST by MHT
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To: MHT
Wonder if Mormons would welcome a gay leader, just like they finally acknowledged that blacks can get into heaven, too.

Get your facts straight. Mormons have never said Blacks could not get into heaven.

And it doesn’t matter what the Church feels about gay scout leaders. As a practical matter, if for no other reason, the BSA has found they can’t afford the law suits some gay leaders have been generating.

28 posted on 01/02/2008 12:51:50 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: MHT
Excuse me if I take what you just wrote with a grain of salt.

I know of some cases where some LDS youth groups actually went and visited other churches.

And I have worked in industry most of my career (mostly around non-LDS with just a few LDS) and I haveb’t seen any difference in the way Mormons integrate into groups.

29 posted on 01/02/2008 1:09:26 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: Rb ver. 2.0

I didn’t know there were any conservatives in Mass!


30 posted on 01/02/2008 1:25:47 PM PST by danhammondsr
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To: Bob

Actually, his exact words were “all people”, not “all boys”. To me, the term “all people” means just that - Scouts as well as their leaders.


I would consider “leading” to be much more than just “participating.”


31 posted on 01/02/2008 1:30:48 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: broncobilly
I would consider “leading” to be much more than just “participating.”

Had he said "all boys" rather that "all people", I might agree with you. His statement made no distinction between Scouts and their leaders.

32 posted on 01/02/2008 1:44:11 PM PST by Bob
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To: Rock&RollRepublican
Romney simply said that all people should be allowed to join the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation. He didn’t say he wants the Boy Scouts to teach boys how to be gay. He didn’t say that it is perfectly OK to be a gay scout leader, or that he wanted openly homosexual men or boys openly practice their predatory habits in the Boy Scouts. Sheesh! You Romney bashers hear only what you want to hear, regardless of reality.

He doesn't have to say anything. One the camels nose is in the tent, it will be in the tent. He says its OK for gays to be in the scouts, guess whats next? It aint gonna be the scouts agenda, it'll be theirs! So I guess since Mitt didn't explicitly say gays shouldn't openly practice their preditory habits, we should just let them in and assume they won't? I'm proud to be a Mitt basher. Much better than being a Romney denier!

33 posted on 01/02/2008 1:50:25 PM PST by Bommer ("He that controls the spice controls the universe!" (unfortunately that spice is Nutmeg!)
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To: Rock&RollRepublican
Romney simply said that all people should be allowed to join the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation.

Translation: Gays should be allowed to participate in Scouting.

34 posted on 01/02/2008 1:55:15 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: MHT

Our experience has been that Scouting is a type of youth group for the LDS church. If you join the Troop, they want you to come to the church. But they do not participate on Scout get-togethers. They remain separate and autonomous.

They are also the only troops to put their church affiliation in their flag. I personally think it is a great idea but I wish they participated more in Council stuff.


35 posted on 01/02/2008 1:59:23 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: Bob
That is taken care of by the other part of his statement. He said he agreed with the policy of the BSA choosing who they want as leaders, which means no homosexuals. I suppose there could be participation of homosexuals as merit badge councilors, etc. I think the BSA just doesn’t want practicing homosexual adults taking the boys out on trips.
The clip was slightly ambiguous, and I suppose someone will soon be posting something more definitive.
36 posted on 01/02/2008 2:16:57 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: AppyPappy

Thank you. We seem to be in the minority but our experience is that they stay very separate, to the point of making extra work for camp staff. Others talk about what great scouters they are. I don’t know if their program even follows the guidelines that ours do but there appears to be no oversight from council about what they do. One difference pointed out by another non-Mormon scout family in Utah was that they don’t adhere to the two-deep rule of supervision.


37 posted on 01/02/2008 2:23:51 PM PST by MHT
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To: Antoninus

He is from Mass. Of course he is a queer lover.

A man from Mass can not be elected. He is from Mass.


38 posted on 01/02/2008 2:26:08 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Moveon is not us...... Moveon is the enemy)
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To: Maelstorm

Ok, the title alone was worth the post...


39 posted on 01/02/2008 2:26:09 PM PST by ejonesie22 (In America all people have a right to be wrong, some just exercise it a bit much...)
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To: MHT

First of all, congratulations on your Eagle Scouts! Good job mom and dad.

Yes, most of the LDS folks I know are good people and yet, prone to the foibles of too closely following church doctrine as it relates to their youth programs.

They believe that Scouting is a part of their church youth program, not an enhancement and therefore, they have the right to modify it as they see fit. In truth, Scouting is a separate entity that can be used for the furthering of their youth programs. Yet, most of the LDS leaders that have failing programs don’t understand why their programs are failing.

No disagreement on the perfecting of the Scouting program. I truly believe in the Scouting Mission and Values. Yes, there have been instances where LDS leaders have made things difficult with “unreasonable” demands(?), yet, we make a concerted effort to let them know it’s not about them, it’s about the boys.

The groups you have dealt with sound quite obstinate and unfortunately, secretive in their approach. Did you notice a lot of “basketball Eagles”? That’s what we call some of the programs here. My job is to bring most if not all of these units into the fold and get them to understand the importance of following the program as it is intended.

They can modify certain aspects to suit their religious beliefs (Sunday travel for instance), but I believe, based on your observations and experiences that those leaders you dealt with are doing their boys a grave disservice.

I am currently working with an LDS unit trying to get their program rebuilt after three years of basically no trained leadership with some church meddling thrown in and I occassionally run into some resistance. I just gently remind them of the agreement we made about me running a Boy Scouts of America program, not an LDS Boy Scout program.

I am training their adult leaders, teaching the boys how to be leaders and building a trained Troop Cmte. that will hopefully not slip backwards once I’m done. This unit had no boy led-boy run program, no committee, no trained adult leaders, etc.

It’s been almost a year now. I have about a year to go I think before I believe I’d feel comfortable turning them loose to see what they can do. I think the biggest thing that has helped me be successful to this point is their bishop who has bought into it whole hog. He wants a quality program, not only for his son, but all the others as well and doesn’t tolerate any unnecessary interference (what that means yet I don’t rightly know) in what I’m doing.

I even convinced him to let me take the Troop to Summer Camp last year over a Sunday. The deal was that their youth leaders would conduct a Sunday service and the boys had to kind of keep it quiet, but it was a victory in the sense that I was able to use logic and convince him of the difficulties in arriving on Monday morning as opposed to arriving on Saturday and be ready, rested and raring to go on Monday morning. Now we’ll see what we can do about this year since the camp we’re going to doesn’t allow Sat. arrivals.;-)

Cheers,
SZ


40 posted on 01/02/2008 2:44:38 PM PST by SZonian (Who gives a crap? It's just my opinion anyway.)
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To: broncobilly
The clip was slightly ambiguous...

IMHO, it was a lot more than slightly ambiguous and deliberately so.

His answer consisted of three parts: 1) He thinks the Boy Scouts do a great service, 2) he supports them making their own decisions on policy (no to gays in leadership), but 3) he thinks that all people should be allowed to participate regardless of their sexual orientation (yes to gays in leadership).

41 posted on 01/02/2008 2:47:32 PM PST by Bob
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To: MHT

Me again,

If they aren’t following the 2 deep leadership principle, then they should be warned about that by Council. If Council is run by predominantly LDS, then they need to elevate the issue to Region. That is absolutely unacceptable.

Cheers,
SZ


42 posted on 01/02/2008 2:49:09 PM PST by SZonian (Who gives a crap? It's just my opinion anyway.)
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To: MHT
We seem to be in the minority but our experience is that they stay very separate, to the point of making extra work for camp staff.

I appreciate what you are saying. I was just putting in some positives, because I tire of reading all the negatives.
Because LDS units are integrated into the overall church program, there are problems. In our area, CA, they wanted the boys back to go to church on Sunday. So they left Camporees Saturday night. The Camporees officially ended Sunday night. The officials were often generous enough to have award ceremonies on Saturday night so the LDS could participate.
The Church growth was rapid in CA, so the LDS units were often new and inexperienced. The LDS boys wouldn’t win many awards at Camporees and got discouraged. So they (with the help of the district) had more district training and a pre-Camporee for the LDS. Gradually the LDS brought there skills up and began to compete well. But I am sure that extra Camporee was easy to misunderstand and get offended by. As far as I could tell, there was always a good working relationship between the locals and the district. It requires good support for the district, however.
In church organizations, there is a continual turnover in assignments. Two years might be a typical time for a typical assignment. That is not good enough for Scouting. In our area, however, some individuals became identified as good Scouting people and get that assignment almost permanently, sometimes as an added assignment in addition to something else. That works better.

In some ways, the LDS units have been out front. The LDS started a Vanguard program in 1928, and the BSA patterned the Explorer program after this in 1933. The Varsity program was started jointly by LDS units with BSA participation. It was finally adopted by the full BSA in 1983.
So there has been accommodation and give and take along the way.

43 posted on 01/02/2008 3:00:15 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: SZonian

Gee whiz—you’re a saint to give it a go. I wonder if one of the reasons the LDS people at my sons’ camp were so protective about others at camp watching what they were doing was because they weren’t allowing the boys to have enough leadership responsibility, etc. When you live with a ward chairman watching you, it’s hard to understand the importance of giving up control to the rank-and-file members. It’s about control and authority. Giving a boy room to fail as well as room to succeed on his own is very threatening to some people. Best wishes to you in your quest.


44 posted on 01/02/2008 3:08:58 PM PST by MHT
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To: Maelstorm; RonF; AppauledAtAppeasementConservat; Looking for Diogenes; Congressman Billybob; ...

Interesting for an LDS to take this stance on Scouts.


45 posted on 01/02/2008 3:20:53 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: AppyPappy
Translation: Gays should be allowed to participate in Scouting.

You play with words, my friend.

A young kid who might think of himself as "gay" should certainly be allowed to participated in Boy Scouts, just like they should be able to attend church, or get a bank account, or join the Republican Party.

That doesn't mean we allow kids to practice or promote their gay lifestyle. The Scouts, with adult supervision, should teach kids to walk the straight and narrow.

Do you really propose we ask all youngsters who would join the Scouts to pledge on their sacred honor that they never entertained a gay thought??

And if they say yes, do we ban them for life?

46 posted on 01/02/2008 3:36:35 PM PST by Edit35
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To: Maelstorm; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; Agitate; AliVeritas; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; BabaOreally; Balke; ..
Homosexual Agenda Ping

Freepmail wagglebee or little jeremiah to subscribe or unsubscribe from the homosexual agenda ping list.

Be sure to click the FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search link for a list of all related articles. We don't ping you to all related articles so be sure to click the previous link to see the latest articles.

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47 posted on 01/02/2008 3:53:18 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: SandRat

Think Mass. Not Utah.

Utah LDS is Scouts


48 posted on 01/02/2008 4:06:49 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Moveon is not us...... Moveon is the enemy)
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To: P-Marlowe; pissant; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; Frumanchu; nobdysfool; LiteKeeper; Sun; wagglebee

See post #41 from someone who summarizes the clip. It says that Romney supports gay participation in the Boy Scouts.

This is serious.

Romney is now in the same category as Rudy with me. I simply cannot support him if he wins the Republican nomination.


49 posted on 01/02/2008 4:13:10 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain! True Supporters of Our Troops Support the Necessity of their Sacrifice!)
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe; pissant; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; Frumanchu; nobdysfool; LiteKeeper; Sun
Romney is now in the same category as Rudy with me. I simply cannot support him if he wins the Republican nomination.

Though I had serious reservations about his Mormonism, I was willing to overlook that if Romney proved to be a genuine conservative; however, what is now obvious is that he is a liberal through and through, and I WILL NOT vote for a liberal simply because he is a Republican.

50 posted on 01/02/2008 4:21:50 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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