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Romney on Boy Scouts
http://www.youtube.com/ ^ | romneyrecord

Posted on 01/02/2008 10:39:29 AM PST by Maelstorm

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To: broncobilly
The clip was slightly ambiguous...

IMHO, it was a lot more than slightly ambiguous and deliberately so.

His answer consisted of three parts: 1) He thinks the Boy Scouts do a great service, 2) he supports them making their own decisions on policy (no to gays in leadership), but 3) he thinks that all people should be allowed to participate regardless of their sexual orientation (yes to gays in leadership).

41 posted on 01/02/2008 2:47:32 PM PST by Bob
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To: MHT

Me again,

If they aren’t following the 2 deep leadership principle, then they should be warned about that by Council. If Council is run by predominantly LDS, then they need to elevate the issue to Region. That is absolutely unacceptable.

Cheers,
SZ


42 posted on 01/02/2008 2:49:09 PM PST by SZonian (Who gives a crap? It's just my opinion anyway.)
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To: MHT
We seem to be in the minority but our experience is that they stay very separate, to the point of making extra work for camp staff.

I appreciate what you are saying. I was just putting in some positives, because I tire of reading all the negatives.
Because LDS units are integrated into the overall church program, there are problems. In our area, CA, they wanted the boys back to go to church on Sunday. So they left Camporees Saturday night. The Camporees officially ended Sunday night. The officials were often generous enough to have award ceremonies on Saturday night so the LDS could participate.
The Church growth was rapid in CA, so the LDS units were often new and inexperienced. The LDS boys wouldn’t win many awards at Camporees and got discouraged. So they (with the help of the district) had more district training and a pre-Camporee for the LDS. Gradually the LDS brought there skills up and began to compete well. But I am sure that extra Camporee was easy to misunderstand and get offended by. As far as I could tell, there was always a good working relationship between the locals and the district. It requires good support for the district, however.
In church organizations, there is a continual turnover in assignments. Two years might be a typical time for a typical assignment. That is not good enough for Scouting. In our area, however, some individuals became identified as good Scouting people and get that assignment almost permanently, sometimes as an added assignment in addition to something else. That works better.

In some ways, the LDS units have been out front. The LDS started a Vanguard program in 1928, and the BSA patterned the Explorer program after this in 1933. The Varsity program was started jointly by LDS units with BSA participation. It was finally adopted by the full BSA in 1983.
So there has been accommodation and give and take along the way.

43 posted on 01/02/2008 3:00:15 PM PST by broncobilly
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To: SZonian

Gee whiz—you’re a saint to give it a go. I wonder if one of the reasons the LDS people at my sons’ camp were so protective about others at camp watching what they were doing was because they weren’t allowing the boys to have enough leadership responsibility, etc. When you live with a ward chairman watching you, it’s hard to understand the importance of giving up control to the rank-and-file members. It’s about control and authority. Giving a boy room to fail as well as room to succeed on his own is very threatening to some people. Best wishes to you in your quest.


44 posted on 01/02/2008 3:08:58 PM PST by MHT
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To: Maelstorm; RonF; AppauledAtAppeasementConservat; Looking for Diogenes; Congressman Billybob; ...

Interesting for an LDS to take this stance on Scouts.


45 posted on 01/02/2008 3:20:53 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: AppyPappy
Translation: Gays should be allowed to participate in Scouting.

You play with words, my friend.

A young kid who might think of himself as "gay" should certainly be allowed to participated in Boy Scouts, just like they should be able to attend church, or get a bank account, or join the Republican Party.

That doesn't mean we allow kids to practice or promote their gay lifestyle. The Scouts, with adult supervision, should teach kids to walk the straight and narrow.

Do you really propose we ask all youngsters who would join the Scouts to pledge on their sacred honor that they never entertained a gay thought??

And if they say yes, do we ban them for life?

46 posted on 01/02/2008 3:36:35 PM PST by Edit35
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To: Maelstorm; AFA-Michigan; Abathar; Agitate; AliVeritas; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; BabaOreally; Balke; ..
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47 posted on 01/02/2008 3:53:18 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: SandRat

Think Mass. Not Utah.

Utah LDS is Scouts


48 posted on 01/02/2008 4:06:49 PM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Moveon is not us...... Moveon is the enemy)
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To: P-Marlowe; pissant; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; Frumanchu; nobdysfool; LiteKeeper; Sun; wagglebee

See post #41 from someone who summarizes the clip. It says that Romney supports gay participation in the Boy Scouts.

This is serious.

Romney is now in the same category as Rudy with me. I simply cannot support him if he wins the Republican nomination.


49 posted on 01/02/2008 4:13:10 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain! True Supporters of Our Troops Support the Necessity of their Sacrifice!)
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe; pissant; Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg; Frumanchu; nobdysfool; LiteKeeper; Sun
Romney is now in the same category as Rudy with me. I simply cannot support him if he wins the Republican nomination.

Though I had serious reservations about his Mormonism, I was willing to overlook that if Romney proved to be a genuine conservative; however, what is now obvious is that he is a liberal through and through, and I WILL NOT vote for a liberal simply because he is a Republican.

50 posted on 01/02/2008 4:21:50 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: xzins; wagglebee

I’ll see you at the primaries where we vote the RINOs OUT!


51 posted on 01/02/2008 4:23:25 PM PST by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: Rock&RollRepublican

I didn’t see Romney differentiating between boys and leaders.


52 posted on 01/02/2008 4:25:38 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: wagglebee

I’m no fan of mormonism either, but that does not mean that Mormons cannot be excellent conservative politicians. But it also means they can be excellent flip floppers, as our friend Mitt is.


53 posted on 01/02/2008 4:38:37 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: pissant

I wonder what the FReeper Mormons would be saying if Harry Reid was running.


54 posted on 01/02/2008 4:40:46 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Reid’s mormonism is not his problem to me. It’s his traitorous politics.


55 posted on 01/02/2008 4:42:01 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: pissant

Romney is just as liberal as Reid.


56 posted on 01/02/2008 4:43:06 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I will not support Romney or Rudy in the primary or general.

This pro-gay, boy scout position of his goes alongside his support for the gay agenda being the law at state level around the nation.


57 posted on 01/02/2008 4:46:16 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain! True Supporters of Our Troops Support the Necessity of their Sacrifice!)
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To: Rock&RollRepublican
What kind of defense is that?

The Boy Scouts cannot tolerate open homosexual orientation in members or leaders without becoming something other than the Boy Scouts.

Mitt just lost points with many conservatives. Face it.

58 posted on 01/02/2008 4:51:01 PM PST by bill1952 (The right to buy weapons is the right to be free)
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To: AppyPappy

“Translation: Gays should be allowed to participate in Scouting.”

That’s right.

Romney’s statement in 1994 was clearly at odds with the BSA’s policy prohibiting boys or adults who openly identify themselves as homosexuals.

In fact, the BSA publicly rebuked him in the press after he made that statement.

And this is a rare issue on which Romney HASN’T flip-flopped.

In 2007, he refuses to honestly answer the question of whether he still opposes the policy. He says instead that each local Scout council should be free to decide the issue.

Which is nice-sounding feel-good pablum, until you realize that means he still opposes the BSA’s national policy that governs the issue for all troops nationwide.

The president of the USA traditionally serves as honorary national chairman of the BSA as well.

I know a woman who’s a member of Mitt’s own church, who’s also an active Scout leader, and she will not vote for Romney on this issue alone.


59 posted on 01/02/2008 5:11:10 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: broncobilly; SZonian; MHT; SandRat; RonF; Tax-chick
Scouting IS different in the LDS church than in the BSA, but with permission of and under agreement with the BSA.

The LDS Young Mens Mutual Improvement Association researched Scouting and created MIA Scouts in 1911. In 1913, the LDS church became the first institutional sponsor of the BSA, with the right to run a LDS Scouting program instead of the BSA program. The LDS program is called Latter-day Saint Scouting. The program is NOT the BSA program; the LDS church describes LDS Scouting as affiliated with "Boy Scouts of America (BSA); Scouts Canada; the Scouting Associations of Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain; and other associations in Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa."

The conceptual difference is that LDS Scouting has a specific different goal for the Scouting program. According to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Scouting is to help meet "the Aaronic Priesthood objectives of preparing young men for full-time missions, temple blessings, and righteous manhood." The ultimate objective of LDS Scouting is to help young men prepare to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and prepare to serve a full time church mission.

To meet the LDS church's goals, LDS Scouting differs from BSA Scouting in many ways, including:

My primary contact with LDS Scouting was during the short period I was the Council Commissioner. We tried to create a new position for a Commissioner for LDS units, to meet their specific needs. One problem was that our Council's geographic boundaries were not church stake boundaries. One of the two church leaders (Bishops?) involved did not want the position to exist, and the second leader (the other stake Bishop?) wanted to select the Commissioner and have him report to the church leader.

LDS Scouts, leaders, and Troops are different from BSA Scouts, leaders, and Troops -- but they come from different programs which serve different purposes.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a strong partner of the BSA in Scouting. The LDS program must be meeting the church's needs, because Scouting is still the official male youth program for the church. But . . . it is a different program from BSA Scouting, for better or worse.

Anyone with different knowledge, please correct me. I knew nothing about LDS Scouting when I became Council Commissioner, except that none of the LDS leaders knew how LDS Scouting differed from BSA Scouting, and none of the BSA leaders knew how BSA Scouting differed from LDS Scouting. After working with the program, I know this much (he said, holding his thumb and forefinger about 1/8" apart).

60 posted on 01/03/2008 2:13:09 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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