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Romney on Boy Scouts
http://www.youtube.com/ ^ | romneyrecord

Posted on 01/02/2008 10:39:29 AM PST by Maelstorm

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To: xzins; wagglebee

I’ll see you at the primaries where we vote the RINOs OUT!


51 posted on 01/02/2008 4:23:25 PM PST by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: Rock&RollRepublican

I didn’t see Romney differentiating between boys and leaders.


52 posted on 01/02/2008 4:25:38 PM PST by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: wagglebee

I’m no fan of mormonism either, but that does not mean that Mormons cannot be excellent conservative politicians. But it also means they can be excellent flip floppers, as our friend Mitt is.


53 posted on 01/02/2008 4:38:37 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: pissant

I wonder what the FReeper Mormons would be saying if Harry Reid was running.


54 posted on 01/02/2008 4:40:46 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Reid’s mormonism is not his problem to me. It’s his traitorous politics.


55 posted on 01/02/2008 4:42:01 PM PST by pissant (Duncan Hunter: Warrior, Statesman, Conservative)
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To: pissant

Romney is just as liberal as Reid.


56 posted on 01/02/2008 4:43:06 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I will not support Romney or Rudy in the primary or general.

This pro-gay, boy scout position of his goes alongside his support for the gay agenda being the law at state level around the nation.


57 posted on 01/02/2008 4:46:16 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain! True Supporters of Our Troops Support the Necessity of their Sacrifice!)
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To: Rock&RollRepublican
What kind of defense is that?

The Boy Scouts cannot tolerate open homosexual orientation in members or leaders without becoming something other than the Boy Scouts.

Mitt just lost points with many conservatives. Face it.

58 posted on 01/02/2008 4:51:01 PM PST by bill1952 (The right to buy weapons is the right to be free)
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To: AppyPappy

“Translation: Gays should be allowed to participate in Scouting.”

That’s right.

Romney’s statement in 1994 was clearly at odds with the BSA’s policy prohibiting boys or adults who openly identify themselves as homosexuals.

In fact, the BSA publicly rebuked him in the press after he made that statement.

And this is a rare issue on which Romney HASN’T flip-flopped.

In 2007, he refuses to honestly answer the question of whether he still opposes the policy. He says instead that each local Scout council should be free to decide the issue.

Which is nice-sounding feel-good pablum, until you realize that means he still opposes the BSA’s national policy that governs the issue for all troops nationwide.

The president of the USA traditionally serves as honorary national chairman of the BSA as well.

I know a woman who’s a member of Mitt’s own church, who’s also an active Scout leader, and she will not vote for Romney on this issue alone.


59 posted on 01/02/2008 5:11:10 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: broncobilly; SZonian; MHT; SandRat; RonF; Tax-chick
Scouting IS different in the LDS church than in the BSA, but with permission of and under agreement with the BSA.

The LDS Young Mens Mutual Improvement Association researched Scouting and created MIA Scouts in 1911. In 1913, the LDS church became the first institutional sponsor of the BSA, with the right to run a LDS Scouting program instead of the BSA program. The LDS program is called Latter-day Saint Scouting. The program is NOT the BSA program; the LDS church describes LDS Scouting as affiliated with "Boy Scouts of America (BSA); Scouts Canada; the Scouting Associations of Australia, New Zealand, and Great Britain; and other associations in Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa."

The conceptual difference is that LDS Scouting has a specific different goal for the Scouting program. According to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Scouting is to help meet "the Aaronic Priesthood objectives of preparing young men for full-time missions, temple blessings, and righteous manhood." The ultimate objective of LDS Scouting is to help young men prepare to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and prepare to serve a full time church mission.

To meet the LDS church's goals, LDS Scouting differs from BSA Scouting in many ways, including:

My primary contact with LDS Scouting was during the short period I was the Council Commissioner. We tried to create a new position for a Commissioner for LDS units, to meet their specific needs. One problem was that our Council's geographic boundaries were not church stake boundaries. One of the two church leaders (Bishops?) involved did not want the position to exist, and the second leader (the other stake Bishop?) wanted to select the Commissioner and have him report to the church leader.

LDS Scouts, leaders, and Troops are different from BSA Scouts, leaders, and Troops -- but they come from different programs which serve different purposes.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a strong partner of the BSA in Scouting. The LDS program must be meeting the church's needs, because Scouting is still the official male youth program for the church. But . . . it is a different program from BSA Scouting, for better or worse.

Anyone with different knowledge, please correct me. I knew nothing about LDS Scouting when I became Council Commissioner, except that none of the LDS leaders knew how LDS Scouting differed from BSA Scouting, and none of the BSA leaders knew how BSA Scouting differed from LDS Scouting. After working with the program, I know this much (he said, holding his thumb and forefinger about 1/8" apart).

60 posted on 01/03/2008 2:13:09 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Maelstorm
Romney on Boy Scouts

Yikes! Will someone peel him off already?

61 posted on 01/03/2008 2:40:51 AM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Scoutmaster

Thanks, that was very informative!

My husband was invited to work at a Wood Badge course this spring, but we’ve already got a half-marathon and our youngest daughter’s First Communion on the second weekend of the course. Maybe he can do it in the fall.


62 posted on 01/03/2008 5:06:29 AM PST by Tax-chick ("The keys to life are running and reading." ~ Will Smith)
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To: wagglebee; xzins
Though I had serious reservations about his Mormonism, I was willing to overlook that if Romney proved to be a genuine conservative; however, what is now obvious is that he is a liberal through and through, and I WILL NOT vote for a liberal simply because he is a Republican.

My thoughts exactly. This simply gives me one more reason not to vote for Romney. I'm down to Huckabee and Paul now.



(aww, crap...shouldn't have said that out loud...)

63 posted on 01/03/2008 5:23:05 AM PST by Frumanchu (Life is too short to argue with liars)
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To: SZonian; MHT

One other LDS Scouting practice that I’ve heard of (but have not confirmed) that would be at variance with standard Scouting practices is that they appoint their junior leaders (the Senior Patrol Leader especially) instead of having the Scouts elect him.


64 posted on 01/03/2008 6:42:51 AM PST by RonF
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To: Scoutmaster

Thanks for that explanation. FR can be a great resource of information. Apparently, among its participants, there are experts on practically any subject you can name.


65 posted on 01/03/2008 8:41:12 AM PST by broncobilly
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To: RonF

The appointment versus election falls right in line with control and authority lines within the Mormon church structure itself. No wonder their leader thought scouting was in alignment with their religion. For better or worse, boy-elections are important—they teach leadership, civic responsibility, and remind everyone that no term (good or bad) lasts forever.


66 posted on 01/03/2008 9:29:44 AM PST by MHT
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To: Tax-chick

Just tell your husband “it’s all about the beads”. ;-)

Heh heh. It’s worth it to serve on staff for WB. I do it every chance I get. What kind of fool volunteers and PAYS to serve on staff? Me, that’s who.

Cheers,
SZ


67 posted on 01/04/2008 1:00:06 PM PST by SZonian (Who gives a crap? It's just my opinion anyway.)
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To: RonF

Typically that’s correct, the problems I faced are small units, 12 or less total boys. The Church program has the boys in the different aspects of Scouting based on age and quorom. 12-14 yr olds are Scouts, 14-16 yr olds are Varsity and 16-18 are Crew.

These age groups are consistent with the different quoroms they attend. The Leaders of each Scouting group is usually the leader of the quorom.

I have broken this mold with the unit I’m working with because there are only about 3-4 boys in each group. Not much chance for developing leadership there. I combined all three age groups into a Troop and have they held elections twice.

I have rec’d some incredulous responses from dyed in the wool LDS Scouters about my approach, but I tell them that both programs are intended to develop leadership. If they don’t have anyone to lead, then how can they develop leadership skills? Sometimes one just needs to take a semi-unorthodox approach to get things right.

Eventually they may move back to the church’s position on leadership roles, but for now, I have “free”(?) reign to right the ship.

Cheers,
SZ


68 posted on 01/04/2008 1:07:27 PM PST by SZonian (Who gives a crap? It's just my opinion anyway.)
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To: Scoutmaster

You sir, are correct. The LDS do have a Webelos program though, that was one you left out, but it’s only one year, 10-11 yrs old.

The comments about adult leaders are basically spot on with a few exceptions. I’ve met some of those exceptions and they do a fine job of balancing both BSA and LDS methods. Hard as it may be.

I served on WB Staff for a Course Director who is LDS and she did an excellent job. She and her husband have been exasperated in the past by LDS rules, but they plug on. Most, if not all of the time, it’s the individuals that make a successful program.

Good post,

Cheers,
SZ


69 posted on 01/04/2008 1:16:50 PM PST by SZonian (Who gives a crap? It's just my opinion anyway.)
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To: MHT

Aww shucks, thanks. It’s a challenge, but I feel fortunate in the fact that the adults that I’ve recruited and those that have been placed by LDS are stepping up and doing what they can knowing that their program is in dire straights.

Cheers,
SZ


70 posted on 01/04/2008 1:22:46 PM PST by SZonian (Who gives a crap? It's just my opinion anyway.)
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To: Scoutmaster

the LDS church became the first institutional sponsor of the BSA >>>

wasn’t the YMCA the first?


71 posted on 01/06/2008 9:46:28 PM PST by Coleus (Merry Christmas and a very Happy and Healthy New Year!!)
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To: Coleus
"Wasn’t the YMCA the first [institutional sponsor of the Boy Scouts]?

You may be right.

If there's a doubt or an ambiguity, then I'll bet both claim to be the first. What I've read lists LDS.

There's also the possibility that YMCA can make the claim because it sponsored BSA Scouting, while the LDS struck a deal to have a distinct Scouting program called "LDS Scouting."

It's not unusual to have different Scouting programs in a country; most European countries have several different Scouting organizations based on religion, labor unions, or distinct area of the country.

72 posted on 01/07/2008 4:39:38 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Scoutmaster

Has Romney disavowed this position? I would like to see a link stating that he is no longer for gays in the Boy Scouts.


73 posted on 01/07/2008 5:40:20 AM PST by barryg
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To: barryg
"Has Romney disavowed this position?"

Not to my knowledge.

74 posted on 01/07/2008 6:43:36 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: Rock&RollRepublican
Do you really propose we ask all youngsters who would join the Scouts to pledge on their sacred honor that they never entertained a gay thought??

Uh... yeah. It's called the Scout Oath.

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

Go troll elsewhere.

75 posted on 01/10/2008 12:08:43 AM PST by fwdude
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To: fwdude
mentally awake and morally straight.

Yes, and all who join the Scouts pledge to behave in a morally straight manor.

Can you police thoughts?

76 posted on 01/10/2008 8:09:36 AM PST by Edit35
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To: Rock&RollRepublican
Can you police thoughts?

Thoughts are hardly what are on trial in these incidents of homosexuals trying to force acceptance.

77 posted on 01/14/2008 4:56:01 PM PST by fwdude
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