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Kosovo train-wreck warnings
Washington Times ^ | January 2, 2008 | James Lyons

Posted on 01/03/2008 9:12:28 AM PST by Bokababe

It is expected that early on in 2008, probably February, the United Nations-supervised Albanian Muslim Administration of the Serbian province of Kosovo will make a unilateral declaration of independence (UDI).

The United States has said it is prepared to recognize Kosovo, despite the objections of the Serbian government and more importantly, despite the fact that Russia, a key ally of Serbia, does not want Kosovo independence.

While unclear, it is likely a number of European countries starting with the United Kingdom, France and Germany will follow Washington's lead. Several other countries, notably Spain, Cyprus, Romania, Slovakia and Greece say they will not recognize Kosovo's UDI. The UDI would be undertaken without approval from the U.N. Security Council because of the vigorous objection of Russia and China, who claim no sovereign state's territory can be detached without its consent. Further, as pointed out by George Friedman in his Stratfor article, there was an absolute consensus that post-World War II borders of Europe were sacrosanct. Therefore, no borders would shift.....

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: albanian; bush; clintonlegacy; kosovo; serb
Time to wake up and smell the coffee, President Bush!
1 posted on 01/03/2008 9:12:28 AM PST by Bokababe
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To: Bokababe

Bookmark


2 posted on 01/03/2008 9:13:49 AM PST by DocRock (All they that TAKE the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52 Gun grabbers beware.)
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; vooch; ...

3 posted on 01/03/2008 9:14:37 AM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
This is one the issue that Russia is actually right on, although I don't doubt the Russians have interests have far different than ours in this matter.

Still, it kind of proves the old adage that even a broken clock is right twice a day.
4 posted on 01/03/2008 9:22:16 AM PST by JamesP81 ("I am against "zero tolerance" policies. It is a crutch for idiots." --FReeper Tenacious 1)
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To: JamesP81
"This is one the issue that Russia is actually right on, although I don't doubt the Russians have interests have far different than ours in this matter. Still, it kind of proves the old adage that even a broken clock is right twice a day."

That is because we made this so easy for the Russians. The Russians just waited until we screwed up six ways from Sunday, dug in defending it, and then they shined a spotlight on it.

Ironically, all that the Bush Administration has to do to get us out of this, is reevaluate our Clintonian position --which he should have done in the first place. But instead Bush is arrogantly trying to pretend that "Kosovo independence is the right thing to do". It's like we would rather shoot ourselves in the foot than admit that the US once screwed up and long run, lots of people-- including our guys-- are going to die over this if Bush doesn't wake up!

5 posted on 01/03/2008 9:36:12 AM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

Funny how nobody has asked Hillary whether she was involved (and supported) the “Clinton-Lied-People-Died” Wag-the-Dog 78-day attack in Belgrade, which ultimately brought the Kosovo mess to where it is now.


6 posted on 01/03/2008 9:36:50 AM PST by Maceman
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To: Bokababe
The United States has said it is prepared to recognize Kosovo

Dumb, dumb, dumb. This is the kind of STUPID diplomacy the State Department loves. But where the hell is Bush?

This is a DELIBERATE PROVOCATION which invites the Albanian terrorists to break international law and declare independence. It is an INVITATION for them to do it.

Bush is saying, "Do it, break international law, violate every precedent of justice, and we will RECOGNIZE you." How dumb can you get?

Clinton did it for his share of the Albanian drug money. They doubled their heroin smuggling into Europe after he handed them the province. Also, he seems to love Muslim terrorists. But why is Bush doing it?

7 posted on 01/03/2008 9:54:05 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Maceman
"Funny how nobody has asked Hillary whether she was involved (and supported) the “Clinton-Lied-People-Died” Wag-the-Dog 78-day attack in Belgrade, which ultimately brought the Kosovo mess to where it is now."

Hillary thinks that Kosovo was "a screaming success" and openly advocates it culminating in Kosovo independence.

What some Americans don't realize is that, not only has our behavior in the Balkans broken every rule of Constitutional and international law, if allowed to continue it will set the precedent for our own politicians to say, "there aren't any rules for what we can do. We do what we want."

8 posted on 01/03/2008 10:02:00 AM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Cicero
"But where the hell is Bush?"

Getting his watch stolen -- again!

9 posted on 01/03/2008 10:06:48 AM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
Ironically, all that the Bush Administration has to do to get us out of this, is reevaluate our Clintonian position --which he should have done in the first place....

During the 2000 Presidential Debates, GWB stated that our policy in Kosovo was something with which he agreed whole-heartedly with Clinton. I decided right then and there that I would not vote for GWB, as he was no better than a Dem. He tried to warn us of the shakiness of his "conservative" credentials way back then, but so many conservative voters just refused to believe it. Today, there are still a handful of die-hards that refuse to believe it.

By the way, Kosovo all by itself should prove to anyone, even without the results in Iraq, that our government is not serious about stopping the spread of Islam, and is not fighting a war against the people that attacked us on 9/11.

Only one candidate for president today agrees that we should not be involved in pushing Islamism on the Balkans, and that is Ron Paul. That's just the facts, man!

10 posted on 01/03/2008 10:19:12 AM PST by agrandis (What kind of nation sends its women into combat?)
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To: Bokababe

I think the Russians have already said they will recognize California’s independence once the illegals have taken over.


11 posted on 01/03/2008 10:21:31 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: agrandis

There is one simple solution for Bush. Just tell everybody that if they declare independence, the U.S. is leaving and the beds will be made and the fridges stocked for the Russians who will replace us. That’s all.


12 posted on 01/03/2008 10:38:36 AM PST by BobS
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To: BobS

the US has about 1600 troops in kosovo. i´m shure it would hurt if they leave (by the way they do not leave) but this wound not prevent kosovo from declare it´s independence. there are about 19.000 european soldiers in kosovo and 2 battle groups on stand by.


13 posted on 01/03/2008 10:52:39 AM PST by austrian
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To: austrian

Sorry, but recent history has shown the European troops would not be effective against either the KLA or Serbia’s army if it would come down to a shooting war. Also, would the EU troops really want to get in the way on the ground rather than just bombing from the air?


14 posted on 01/03/2008 10:54:44 AM PST by JMS
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To: BobS
No, leave "the fridge stocked" for the Serbia's soldiers, on whose land we illegally built a permanent military base. Like it or not, we ARE "occupiers" there.

Or perhaps you'd rather we shed American lives to further the cause of Islamists' expansion into Europe? And these are Islamists who cannot support themselves because they have no economy other than sexual slaving, drugs, and illegal weapons trading (including those used to attack the US Embassy in Greece), so the Kosovo Albanians will be sucking off the American taxpayer teat for many decades while they plot to take over parts of Greece, Macedonia, Montenegro and the rest of Southern Serbia with the same strategy that worked so well for them in Kosovo.

Unfortunately, those are the alternatives we have left ourselves with. We've painted ourselves into a corner -- and it really, really, really sucks.

15 posted on 01/03/2008 10:55:11 AM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: JMS

Sorry, but recent history has shown the European troops would not be effective against either the KLA or Serbia’s army if it would come down to a shooting war. Also, would the EU troops really want to get in the way on the ground rather than just bombing from the air?


why should european troops not be effective against the KLA or a serbian army? because only they are from Europe or what?
they are better equipped and have air superiority. so why this should not work? (btw. it should be said that serbia allready stated that they will not go to war about kosovo)


16 posted on 01/03/2008 11:02:44 AM PST by austrian
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To: austrian

It’s a matter of willingness to fight. The KLA wants the territory, Serbia believes that Kosovo is it’s cultural heartland. The European soldiers don’t have a reason to fight nor do they for the most part have actual combat experience as the other parties do. It’s not a matter of them being European, it’s a matter of motivation.

Also, as regards air superiority, this did the US no good until civilian targets were bombed. Would the European public support bombing civilian targets to help the Albanian mafia? I’d appreciate your thoughts on this.


17 posted on 01/03/2008 11:19:15 AM PST by JMS
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To: Bokababe

So I guess we’re going to start bombing Arizona soon, since those racist genocidal Arizonans are ethnicly cleansing the poor invading Mexicans.


18 posted on 01/03/2008 11:31:37 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (And close the damned borders!)
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To: JMS

If Euroweenies support bombing Serbia again, then they better start bombing France.

I don’t see any big difference between Muzzie invaders snatching a province of Serbia and Muzzies snatching a few suburbs of Paris.

The precedent of “You Snatch It You Keep It” has already been made. A second attack on Serbia will codify it in international relations.

And Bush is either an idiot or a partner with the Clintons.


19 posted on 01/03/2008 11:37:45 AM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (And close the damned borders!)
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To: JMS

sorry but what do you mean by “it´s a matter of willingness to fight? do your soldiers have a special willingness to fight in iraq for example? and if so what for they are willing to fight? this are professional soldiers. it´s their job to fullfill their duty in several parts of this world. so i don´t think it´s a question of willingness or not. it´s their job. no one forced them to join the military. and for combat experience. i guess before the iraq and afgansitan war started most of your troops did not have combat experience too. but still they did not preform bad. or did they? and NO european public would not support bombing civilan targets. but why should europe bomb targets in kosovo or serbia. the troops are allready there. the other side would have to attack our troops. not the other way around. and serbian air force for example is no match for a combinded european army.


20 posted on 01/03/2008 11:45:02 AM PST by austrian
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To: Bokababe
It is sick to think how the Western and more developed Nations prefer to legitimize radical Islam in one corner of the globe and then condemn it in another. They want us to believe that they are isolated cases of radicalism by giving them different names. They fail to note that there is only ONE Kuran and if they want to eliminate radical Muslims they will need to change the book or commit genocide.

It is this hypocrisy that has been demonstrated by Clinton and now Bush that has threatened the very foundation of America herself. These administrations are NOT representative of America’s foreign interests. If so show me how legally one can recognize another state without regard for international laws and treaties?

Some say this is simply a continuation of the cold war where Russia must be crushed and radical right wing elements are being used to do it. The Russian sphere of influence must be diminished and the Balkans are a part of that sphere along with the Baltic states.

BUT, it was England who put Communism into the Balkans in the first place by legitimizing Tito. So, the Serbs were punished by Communism under the communist purges and now being punished for being under Communism by Islamic purges spearheaded by Germany.

Crazy? Then why does Medved, Bush, Rush, and others use the term Islamofascism? Because Islam was a radical Nazi element and still is today. It espouses radical Fascistic principles that went hand in hand with the radical Nazi principles.

But what these people don’t know is that this kind of Islam doesn’t stop in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Balkans will not be enough. Look at Detroit and some places in Philadelphia.

The West is interested in getting rid of Russia and her sphere of influence while the Muslims see this as an opportunity for expansion.

21 posted on 01/03/2008 11:49:53 AM PST by SQUID
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To: Bokababe

The wrriter of the article is admiral (ret.) James “Ace” Lyons, former commander of US pacific fleet.


22 posted on 01/03/2008 12:24:55 PM PST by kronos77 (-www.savekosovo.org- and -www.kosovo.net- Save Kosovo from Islam!)
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To: austrian

Clearly you know little of the US armed forces and their motivation to fight what was a clear and present danger in Iraq as opposed getting involved with the destruction of a fellow European country in violation of the Helsinki accords. The European forces were ostensibly brought in as peace keepers, not as a fighting force and have not even been effective in keeping Serbian churches from being destroyed. If they are not motivated to keep the peace, there is little reason to believe they would be motivated to go into combat.


23 posted on 01/03/2008 1:08:47 PM PST by JMS
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To: JMS

Excellent post.


24 posted on 01/03/2008 1:16:15 PM PST by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: Bokababe

Whatever it takes to keep the pipeline routes open.


25 posted on 01/03/2008 1:18:57 PM PST by RightWhale (Dean Koonz is good, but my favorite authors are Dun and Bradstreet)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: JMS

Clearly you know little of the US armed forces and their motivation to fight what was a clear and present danger in Iraq as opposed getting involved with the destruction of a fellow European country in violation of the Helsinki accords. The European forces were ostensibly brought in as peace keepers, not as a fighting force and have not even been effective in keeping Serbian churches from being destroyed. If they are not motivated to keep the peace, there is little reason to believe they would be motivated to go into combat.


it´s true that the troops (including US) now fullfill peacekeeping operations in kosovo. but this does not mean that they would not be able to fight if needed. (btw. there will be no war over kosovo all different sides statet this allready). why do you say that they are not motivated to bring peace? ok in a perfect world our millitary could prevent every thing (including protecting this serbian churches for example. but this wolrd is far away from perfect.) so you say because only they are not able to prevent everything that they are not motivated? are your troops not motivated too in afghanistan or iraq for example? because it looks like they are not able to prevent all violence there. it will never be possible to stop everything but this does not mean that the troops are not motivated.


27 posted on 01/03/2008 1:33:28 PM PST by austrian
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To: austrian

No K-Force troops have done anything to prevent Albanian violence against the Serbs and Serbian cultural institutions so even in an imperfect world there has been no effort made to prevent violence. Your analogies to Iraq and Afghanistan do no stand up as the vast majority of areas in those countries are pacified precisely because of the motivated actions of the US and our allies, many of whom are European. No one is speaking about preventing all violence but at least an effort should be made. As such, there is no reason to believe an effort would be made to fight against a determined foe in Kosovo.


28 posted on 01/03/2008 2:30:20 PM PST by JMS
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To: Bokababe
"Or perhaps you'd rather we shed American lives to further the cause of Islamists' expansion into Europe? "

Not at all. It's time to tell them to straighten up in a way they understand. The Russians scare the hell out of them and are Serbia's allies. We've been there far too long already.

We told the Iraqis we can't stay years ago. After some recent changes, they said they won't need us after another year already. They're picking up the pieces on their own.

29 posted on 01/03/2008 2:35:53 PM PST by BobS
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To: austrian
"there are about 19.000 european soldiers in kosovo and 2 battle groups on stand by."

That's another problem. After a decade or so, people look at militaries as a welfare check. For people that looted and burned down Orthodox old churches and communities?

Encouraging that behavior and rewarding it is not the way to go. That's the mayhem that started everything. That stupid Clinton should have stayed out until all big countries decided it's getting out of hand.

30 posted on 01/03/2008 3:02:30 PM PST by BobS
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To: austrian
The strength of the U.S. is not in the 1,600 troops it has on the ground (troops that prefer to hang out with the Serbian Army in the DMZ, btw); it's in the capability and willingness to use its power. That's something NONE of the European countries -- with the exception of Britain -- possess.

Now, for some insane reason, the U.S. has chosen to put this power behind a bunch of drug-running, nun-raping, church-burning, Jihad heathens.

Austria has just announced that it will support the independence of Kosovo. Is Austria ready to send its troops to enforce this grand plan? Didn't think so.

31 posted on 01/03/2008 8:52:30 PM PST by Banat (DEO + REGI + PATRIAE | Basileia Romaion)
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To: Bokababe

If the Albanians are permitted to takeover Kosovo there next move will be in Macedonia. If the Albanians are permitted to takeover in Macedonia there next move will be in Montenegro. If the Albanians are permitted to takeover im Montenegro there next move will be in Greece.


32 posted on 01/03/2008 9:44:35 PM PST by F-117A (Mr. Bush, have someone read UN Resolution 1244 to you!!!)
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To: Banat

Austria has just announced that it will support the independence of Kosovo. Is Austria ready to send its troops to enforce this grand plan? Didn’t think so.


austria has 600 soldiers in Kosovo since the year 1999.and has stated that it´s ready to provide 1200 troops if needed.
so i guess yes austria is ready to enforce this plan. don´t ask me why but yes it looks like we are ready.
and because you stated that european troops are not willing to use it´s power.
tell this to this 2 guys in kosovo. (oh wait you can´t because they are dead).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=687Eusnrxfk

(warning violent graphic).


33 posted on 01/04/2008 5:36:17 AM PST by austrian
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