Posted on 01/04/2008 12:57:05 PM PST by ECM
Over the last two weeks, leading American atheists have registered complaints about all the attention given to Christmas in the United States. These atheists have issued three challenges. First, they insist that being atheist does not mean being immoral. Second, they want other people to see that atheists are law-abiding, compassionate, and generous to others—that one does not have to be Christian or to feel “the Christmas spirit” to care for the poor and the needy. Third, they insist that monotheists have a harder time being tolerant of others than atheists do. Atheists, they think, are more humble, tolerant, and sweet-tempered; since monotheists think that they “have” the truth, and know God’s will, they are more stiff-minded.
In my own experience, though, many different belief systems are found among people who call themselves atheists.
(Excerpt) Read more at article.nationalreview.com ...
“Third, they insist that monotheists have a harder time being tolerant of others than atheists do.”
So after bashing Christmas and all things Christian, they believe they’re more tolerant?
SOOOOOO.....did they WORK ON CHRISTMAS?
Mr. Alex Salmond and Archbishop John Sentamu,
I have a few questions.
Question. You seem to view that religion (Christianity really – as that is all you mention) as “terrible” and “regrettable.” Yet when the records are compared of “Christian” atrocities (let say the Inquisition for example) to the records of the countries that have officially done away with religion or to countries that have outright banned religion and imprisoned those who try to practice it (the ultimate test of the theory of separation of church and state), there are wide disparages. The Inquisition, taken as one of the worse times of Christianity (and it is very arguable if any church was ever really behind it), killed approximately 10,000 people over 100 years.
In the Communist Manifesto, Engel and Marx declared, “Communism abolishes all religion.” In my father’s lifetime, the numbers of people that officially atheist countries have murdered in the name of no-religion is staggering; the USSR slaughtered 20 million, China slaughtered 30 million, Communist Cambodia slaughtered 2 million, Communist North Korea has/continues to murder untold millions, Communist Cuba has/continues to murder untold numbers, the list goes on.
The grand total is over 100 million+ dead in the last 80-year time span (over 600,000/year). Even comparing the worst time of “Christian Persecution” to an average time of a just one country that has officially and forcefully separated church and state, the conclusion seems to be obvious: Christianity has a huge calming influence on government. Or, conversely, why is it when a state officially bans religion and enforces atheism, there is always slaughter and killing on a massive scale?
Question. Do you believe that without Christianity there would have ever been a western civilization? That everything we take for granted in West; freedom of speech, freedom of thought, tolerance of thought, freedom of choice for the direction of you life, scientific curiosity, expansion of knowledge, etc. has all been made possible by the underpinnings of Christianity?
Question. Why are Christians and Jesus Christ attacked with such viciousness by atheists? I mean, I never see the same level of venom directed at people who believe in Thor, or Mohammed or alien gods of Scientology? Why is that? After all, they should all be on the same level of ignorance, so why the difference?
Question. Why is it that the strong proponents of Darwinism, i.e., survival of the fittest, are some of the most hard core Atheists and hard core socialists/communists? Socialists believe that we should take from some and give to others, at the point of gun if needed, because it is the “fair” thing to do. Why doesn’t Darwinism apply?
Question. Do you consider Darwinism a religion? If not (i.e., it is a scientific theory) then why ban intelligent design? I always thought that science works best when thoughts and ideas could be vigorously challenged?
Question. If there this no God, where do morals come from? If there is no God, is there good and evil in the world? Why or why not? Who gets to decide?
Question. “I salute your courage in questioning Christianity” – Really now, how much courage does that take? Funny how as an atheist, in which you would view all religions as silliness and intolerant, you do not mention Islam, not even one time. Why is that? Come on, let us see some real courage. Maybe some religions are more equal than others?
Question. Why do you live in a traditional Christian country? You seem to find it so terrible and cruel. Why not move to a Muslim country? Why not a communist country where religion has been banned and there are only (officially) fellow atheists? Why stay in the Christian West and complain about it? Is it because you find comfort, a high standard of living and tolerance in these countries? Is this living as a hypocrite?
Best Regards,
2banana
First, they insist that being atheist does not mean being immoral. Second, they want other people to see that atheists are law-abiding, compassionate, and generous to others—that one does not have to be Christian or to feel “the Christmas spirit” to care for the poor and the needy. Third, they insist that monotheists have a harder time being tolerant of others than atheists do.I agree with the first two points, but not the third. People are people and all are equally prone to prejudice and intolerance of people who are different than themselves. It's human nature, and no one set of beliefs has a monopoly on that.
ATHEIST :"I'm more humble than you!"
First, I would like to know what makes them "leading." Because they shout more and piss more people off?
Otherwise, pretty decent article. It still did the pigeonholing I often see, but in a more fine-grained and reasoned way that supports the theme of the article.
Think you're really righteous?
Think you're pure at heart?
Well, I know I'm a million time as humble as thou art!
Props to Weird Al.
The last time I saw an estimate it was 300 people in 350 years.
You know, less than the number of people murdered in Chicago in one year.
I remember seeing the “Jesus is Lard” bumperstickers piled up in Madelyn Murray O’Hare’s headquarters on the 60 Minutes segment on them. They are not innocuous.
This is absurd. Where are all the hospitals, schools, orphanages, medical missions, etc. founded by atheists? Where is there any atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army, World Vision, or any of the hundreds of Christian relief organizations?
Also, I have never met an atheist who was gentle, kind, or humble, or seen a post by one here or elsewhere on the internet. Most of the atheists I've encountered were chronically angry, arrogant, and intolerant.
Most of the atheists I've encountered were chronically angry, arrogant, and intolerant.
I can't stand those guys either.
Humble? The absolute faith placed in the knowledge of oneself or the attainment of knowledge is the atheist creed. That there are no moral absolutes and no source of good or evil is not humble. Without God to submit to, there is no humility. Indeed, atheism is by it’s nature not humble to anything, but always suggesting the possibility that things create themselves through randomness, when evidence tips the scales to orderliness.
Finally, it is being self- indulgent instead of submitting to the will of God Himself. Fortunately, they are simply mislead and God will continue to seek them to bring them into true humility.
Charities know this article is absurd. People of faith contribute the most without recognition for the most part. Nice try though.
Also, I’m sorry, but unless you’re wearing an ugly t-shirt with big letters that say I AM AN ATHIEST, how the heck am I going to know or CARE what you are?
Most atheists I have personally met tend toward not a calm open world view that there is no God, but rather into a hateful self righteous world view that springs from a hatred of God, usually due to some harm they percieved done to them in their lives.
They tend to deny God, not because intellect brings them to this conclusion, but because they were materially harmed and blame God for abandoning them and allowing it to occur.
Face it, a true person who is honestly atheistic cannot be threatened by God, or by anyone who would dare believe in such a “childish myth”. Yet to a T most I know go out of their way to not simply smile and accept quietly that others do not share their view, but to do everything in their power to mock and attack those who believe and to attack in any way they can any public showing of such beliefs.
Sadly they attack, deny and blame the one thing that would likely bring piece to their existance, but they lash out instead.
I am sure there are exceptions, but that is without a doubt the world view of most that I have met. Now I am talking people claiming to be be true atheists, not agnostics.
Where is the society or culture that developed and thrived based upon atheists? There are none.
Most atheists I know are really bitter and go around loudly mocking Christians. (All religions should be fair game to atheists, but for some reason they seem to harbor special hatred for Christians.) It’s usually some very crude humor, too. They don’t seem to get the honey/vinegar concept.
If an atheist merely doesn’t believe in God, then why all the anger toward Christians? As in, “I don’t believe in Santa Claus but I don’t hate the image nor does it bother me to see him represented.” Same with the tooth fairy.
O’Hare was a nasty, bigoted woman, but she did have a tendency to expose the nasty, bigoted side of many Christians and the local government.
Ah, the Amish Paradise.
BS meter went off the scale on that one.
Never met anyone more intolerant and hateful than leftist atheists.
Humble? The absolute faith placed in the knowledge of oneself or the attainment of knowledge is the atheist creed. That there are no moral absolutes and no source of good or evil is not humble. Without God to submit to, there is no humility. Indeed, atheism is by it’s nature not humble to anything, but always suggesting the possibility that things create themselves through randomness, when evidence tips the scales to orderliness. Finally, it is being self- indulgent instead of submitting to the will of God Himself.See what I mean? That kind of unwarranted personal attack is usually what it takes to make me angry and thus counter-attack a Christian to defend myself, which may sound intolerant if you don't see the whole context.
But to be nice I won't lower myself to that today.
Of course not, they took a Winter Break.
Did they give out Winter gifts too?
if an atheist presents himself as a real sweetie-pie, one must remember the millions of deaths associated with atheist regimes. the known body-count is rather large and the undocumented deaths are probably even larger in number. behind the smile of an atheist, who claims sweet reason to be on his side, is a dark, bottomless pit.
The Atheists always have Stalin.
I’m atheist, like most of my family, but we celebrate Christmas. To us, it’s a cultural holiday, not a religious celebration. Like the Fourth of July or New Year’s.
When atheists are part of a society but not in control of it they share that society’s willingness to obey the laws and observe the mores of that society. When they are in control of that society, anything goes because there is no yardstick; they are their own yardstick
Morality is rooted in the teachings of religious faith. Religion and belief in an expected behavior is the root of all legal systems. To suggest that an atheist is a moral person conveys that they behave in a way that is acceptable to other members of our species. They may follow the law perfectly.
Tolerance is part of morality. Intolerance is is otherwise. Activism against a groups expression of personal values or religious behavior is intolerance. Intolerance is not generally accepted as a trait of someone with “moral.” Denigrating my right or the rights of citizens of this country to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ strikes me as something other than honorable.
Having no hope of reward for being a good person is a hollow existence. How does an atheist cope with the idea that nothing they do in a short minuscule existence of life as we know it is relevant? An atheist is born, lives and dies. That’s it. What ever happens between the beginning and the end as no real meaning or value, I suppose.
Epicurus is one of my heroes. :-)
Epicurus is one of my heroes. :-)
My first sermon was “Humility, and how I obtained it” ...
The Bill & Milinda Gates Foundation and The Fred Hallows Foundation are two that come right to mind.
Also, I have never met an atheist who was gentle, kind, or humble, or seen a post by one here or elsewhere on the internet. Most of the atheists I've encountered were chronically angry, arrogant, and intolerant.
Great Post. I agree 100%. My sentiments exactly. For those that I do not agree with, I am mostly apathetic, unless it threatens me, my family, way of life, health, wealth and/or safety.
I don’t believe in ghosts. Some do. I don’t go out of my way to find them and denigrate their beliefs. It doesn’t affect me so I am apathetic to their belief. Who protests against people that believe in ghosts?
But its not. You justify it by calling it cultural.
Are you sure you are atheist? Could you be agnostic instead? There is a huge difference. Agnostic is not acknowledging, endorsing or practicing faith in a higher being. Atheism is the outright rejection of the existence of God.
God Bless you.
The Christmas spirit is to rejoice that God has given us His Son as a gift; our redeemer.
We can care for the poor and needy at Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Year's and Veteran's Day and...
Probably my own category. I admire most people of faith but find myself incapable of it. There's nothing anti-Christian in this-I see the happiness my wife's devout Buddhism brings her but I'm not any more likely to join her faith than I am to become a Christian.
Madelyn Murray O’Hare died when she was double crossed over hording her gold.
Many Christians would also declare that they don’t believe in ghosts. And then try reminding them of the Holy Ghost in the trinity...
The Gates are politicking to see that we all pay for it. Socialism could be privately funded. Charity doesn’t have to be run by government.
Also according to this quote and the site “celebrity atheists” Bill Gates is agnostic:
Gates was interviewed November 1995 on PBS by David Frost. Below is the transcript with minor edits.
Frost: Do you believe in the Sermon on the Mount?
Gates: I don’t. I’m not somebody who goes to church on a regular basis. The specific elements of Christianity are not something I’m a huge believer in. There’s a lot of merit in the moral aspects of religion. I think it can have a very very positive impact.
Frost: I sometimes say to people, do you believe there is a god, or do you know there is a god? And, you’d say you don’t know?
Gates: In terms of doing things I take a fairly scientific approach to why things happen and how they happen. I don’t know if there’s a god or not, but I think religious principles are quite valid.
Gates was profiled in a January 13, 1996 TIME magazine cover story. Here are some excerpts compiled by the Drudge Report:
“Isn’t there something special, perhaps even divine, about the human soul?” interviewer Walter Isaacson asks Gates “His face suddenly becomes expressionless,” writes Isaacson, “his squeaky voice turns toneless, and he folds his arms across his belly and vigorously rocks back and forth in a mannerism that has become so mimicked at MICROSOFT that a meeting there can resemble a round table of ecstatic rabbis.”
“I don’t have any evidence on that,” answers Gates. “I don’t have any evidence of that.”
He later states, “Just in terms of allocation of time resources, religion is not very efficient. There’s a lot more I could be doing on a Sunday morning.”
Yes, I’m atheist.
This is absurd. Where are all the hospitals, schools, orphanages, medical missions, etc. founded by atheists? Where is there any atheist equivalent of the Salvation Army, World Vision, or any of the hundreds of Christian relief organizations?
Also, I have never met an atheist who was gentle, kind, or humble, or seen a post by one here or elsewhere on the internet. Most of the atheists I’ve encountered were chronically angry, arrogant, and intolerant.
Excellent points! You are so right!
I did a quick check of the Hallows website and could see no mention of atheism as a motive for his charity. I'm sure Bill Gates is not exactly an evangelical Christian, but what convinces you that he is an atheist?
Even if you're completely correct about these 2, that's a pretty pathetic list compared to the literally thousands of Christian charitable enterprises. Besides, almost everyone living in this country has been influenced by Christian thinking, whether or not they acknowledge it or are conscious of it. Just where would an atheist find the basis for charitable acts or feelings? Do you think there is a natural tendency for people to be "nice?" The history of man and of his prehuman ancestors certainly doesn't support that belief.
That simply doesn’t count.
And when they trap you into losing your cool, they drag out the obligatory “that isn’t very Christian of you!”
And never mind they have zero standards to be held to.
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