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Chertoff on final Real ID rules: "Reconfiguring our society"
Ars Technica ^ | January 11, 2008 - 12:43PM CT | Jon Stokes

Posted on 01/11/2008 12:10:57 PM PST by ECM

"There comes a point in time where all the discussion and analysis has to stop. We are now six years away from 9/11. Simply kicking this problem further down the road is a time-tested Washington way of smothering a proposal with process," said Chertoff. "The time has come to bite the bullet." Or, as Jack Bauer might say (while in the midst of breaking half a dozen laws in the name of stopping an impending attack), "We're running out of time!"

Chertoff summarized the major features of the final rules as follows: People must provide documentation that proves who they are and that they're here in this country legally The DMV must verify that the documents they're being presented with are legit, and take steps to protect their own databases from misuse. Licenses must meet tamper-proof standards States have to work together to assure that individuals aren't able to obtain driver's from multiple states in an improper manner

(Excerpt) Read more at arstechnica.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: airtravel; aliens; chertoff; dhs; federalism; freedom; immigrantlist; immigration; papersplease; privacy; real; realidact; statesrights
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Reconfigure this, Chertoff.
1 posted on 01/11/2008 12:11:01 PM PST by ECM
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To: ECM

Chertoff: Bush’s Open Border clown.


2 posted on 01/11/2008 12:12:32 PM PST by EagleUSA
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To: ECM

“Reconfigure soceity”?

Always a bad idea.


3 posted on 01/11/2008 12:13:51 PM PST by BenLurkin
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To: ECM

Reconfiguring the 4th Amendment isn’t an option.


4 posted on 01/11/2008 12:16:01 PM PST by ctdonath2
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To: ECM

Borders are wide open. I’m not submitting to a national ID or giving up any freedoms to a justice department that doesn’t care enough to even shut the door.


5 posted on 01/11/2008 12:16:28 PM PST by mysterio
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To: ECM
If the Feds want a national ID, passports are already there.

Making the states be their secretaries should not be an option.

6 posted on 01/11/2008 12:16:49 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Muslims reserve the right to kill anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: ECM

Chertoff isn’t qualified to do security at Wal*Mart.

He can’t be out of his present job fast enough.


7 posted on 01/11/2008 12:17:48 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: ECM
Atlas Shrugged Reconfigured
8 posted on 01/11/2008 12:18:17 PM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed ... ICE’s toll-free tip hotline —1-866-DHS-2-ICE ... 9/11 .. Never FoRGeT)
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To: BenLurkin

General Question to any9ne who may know...

Is there any federal or state law that requires one (a legal US Citizen) to be able to produce any kind of personal identification?

What about anything in the US Constitution or body of law that prohibits the requirement thereof?

I’d be interested in finding out.

Drivers licenses are required for legal driving,yes?

God Bless


9 posted on 01/11/2008 12:20:05 PM PST by Manly Warrior (US Army, Retired)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Driver’s license are internal passports. They are used in interstate commerce for domestic air travel. Without reasonable standards, domestic air travel will be forced into chaos over terrorism fears. The states need to step up to the plate. Chertoff wants to stop illegals and terrorists from getting driver’s licenses.


10 posted on 01/11/2008 12:20:42 PM PST by businessprofessor
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To: ECM

What’s the big deal? You already have to show I.D. for a multiple of activities. My only stipilation would be that you did not have to carry it on your person at all times. That would eliminate the local gendarmes from asking to “see your papers” as some people are afraid of.


11 posted on 01/11/2008 12:22:25 PM PST by Old Seadog (Inside every old person is a young person saying "WTF happened?".)
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To: NormsRevenge
Agreed. I wish Bernard Kerik had gotten the job. “To catch a thief, you must send a thief”. If Kerik had been Chief of HS, nothing would have gotten past him, since he already knows all the tricks. This is war, I am tired of all the amenities, all the niceties, all the BS. Let’s get a real thug to go in and flush out the other thugs. This election, it’s the bad decisions of sub-prime mortgage buyers or GWOT, take your pick. I say KILL ISLAM.
12 posted on 01/11/2008 12:23:56 PM PST by ishabibble (ALL-AMERICAN INFIDEL)
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To: EagleUSA

“Chertoff: Bush’s Open Border clown.”

Exactly!!


13 posted on 01/11/2008 12:24:36 PM PST by stephenjohnbanker (Pray for, and support our troops(heroes) !! And vote out the RINO's!!)
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To: ECM
"If a state were to opt out of this, then their license would no longer as a matter of law be accepted as as proper identification for getting on an airplane," said Chertoff.

Pound sand Chertoff.

14 posted on 01/11/2008 12:25:06 PM PST by beltfed308 (Rudy: When you absolutely,positively need a liberal for President.)
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To: ECM

It’s a win if they are required for voting!


15 posted on 01/11/2008 12:25:26 PM PST by AU72
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To: Manly Warrior

‘Is there any federal or state law that requires one (a legal US Citizen) to be able to produce any kind of personal identification?”

Only if you want to drive, ride a bus, ride a train, fly, check into a hotel or work.


16 posted on 01/11/2008 12:25:45 PM PST by driftdiver
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To: businessprofessor
Driver’s license[s] are internal passports.

No they aren't.

They are proof of proficiency and eligibility to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. Because it's used for other things due to convenience doesn't make it such.
17 posted on 01/11/2008 12:28:19 PM PST by SpaceBar
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To: ECM

I’m actually glad that our government has so clearly shown us who they really are in recent years - it has saved me from wasting lots of time, money, and energy on backing a certain political party that used to pretend it cared about the Constitution.


18 posted on 01/11/2008 12:28:24 PM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("Wise men don't need to debate; men who need to debate are not wise." -- Tao Te Ching)
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To: NormsRevenge

FoxNews is reporting that no one will be able to board a plane, or enter a federal building without the new ID. What’s next, no buying and selling without the ID??


19 posted on 01/11/2008 12:28:45 PM PST by goron
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To: ECM

That Chertoff is still employed is proof that Bush is half-worthless.


20 posted on 01/11/2008 12:29:13 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny
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To: ECM
It's a national ID passed out by the state.

No more, no less.

If I have to bring my birth certificate every time I go to renew my driver's license they better be making some copies of that birth certificate for me.

Will a US passport, even an expired one, be sufficient?

Just what ARE the requirements? We haven't heard that yet.

21 posted on 01/11/2008 12:32:08 PM PST by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: ECM
Simply kicking this problem further down the road is a time-tested Washington way of smothering a proposal with process"

Said Sec. of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff, who has been kicking this problem further down the road since he was sworn in three years ago.


22 posted on 01/11/2008 12:32:55 PM PST by Iron Munro (Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.)
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To: ECM
Jertoff owes the taxpayers of this country all of his salary back, minus one penny, Because anything over a penny a year is over paying his incompetent ass.
23 posted on 01/11/2008 12:38:31 PM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: driftdiver
Only if you want to drive, ride a bus, ride a train, fly, check into a hotel or work.

All of which illegals are allowed to do with out one.

24 posted on 01/11/2008 12:40:35 PM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: mysterio

I have a national ID, it’s called a passport...


25 posted on 01/11/2008 12:41:01 PM PST by Constitution Day (Get over yourselves!)
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To: org.whodat

“Only if you want to drive, ride a bus, ride a train, fly, check into a hotel or work.

All of which illegals are allowed to do with out one.”

Heck they don’t even need an ID to open a bank account or cash a check. You and I can’t do that.


26 posted on 01/11/2008 12:41:55 PM PST by driftdiver
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To: ECM

He always reminded me of that smaller Budweiser Lizard.


27 posted on 01/11/2008 12:42:13 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments
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To: ECM
olla senor Jerktoff.
28 posted on 01/11/2008 12:43:25 PM PST by OKIEDOC (Kalifornia, a red state wannabe. I don't take Ex Lax I just read the New York Times.)
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To: ECM; Shermy

“The DMV must verify that the documents they’re being presented with are legit, and take steps to protect their own databases from misuse”

This is an OUTRIGHT denial of the culture of corruption that exists WITHIN our government where State employees have been caught red handing selling LEGIT drivers’ licenses (even multiple identities to a single person) knowing that the information that has been presented is false.

Until they are marched on tv and put away for life for their crimes the driver’s license will only be good for determining if someone has passed a test (by any means necessary) to drive a car and at least at one time was able to receive mail at the addres on the card.


29 posted on 01/11/2008 12:43:53 PM PST by weegee (Those who surrender personal liberty to lower global temperatures will receive neither.)
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To: goron

So those on trial for Federal offenses will also be needing to get one of these IDs? How about to serve jury duty (or even to go down for jury selection)?


30 posted on 01/11/2008 12:46:00 PM PST by weegee (Those who surrender personal liberty to lower global temperatures will receive neither.)
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To: beltfed308

I’ll use my passport to get on a plane. The State has no business in this.


31 posted on 01/11/2008 12:47:23 PM PST by weegee (Those who surrender personal liberty to lower global temperatures will receive neither.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Order out of chaos - new world order, illuminati and bildaburgers. It’s all true?
Tin foil the cfr wing of FR will say?
32 posted on 01/11/2008 12:50:38 PM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: weegee
I've observed corrupt DMV employees coaching Spanish speakers through a driver's license exam at the Poway, CA office. I don't have any proof, but it's a fair supposition that these non-English speakers weren't citizens of the U.S.. I'll further hazard a supposition that they were registered to vote in compliance with Clinton's Motor Voter Act.
33 posted on 01/11/2008 12:53:58 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: goron

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/alan26.htm

FOX AND FRIENDS OR FOX AND FOES?

Must read for true American conservatives —


34 posted on 01/11/2008 12:53:59 PM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: beltfed308
"If a state were to opt out of this, then their license would no longer as a matter of law be accepted as as proper identification for getting on an airplane," said Chertoff.

LOL, I posted that exact comment on a FR thread a several years ago. Chertoff must be reading FR and taking my advice.

35 posted on 01/11/2008 1:03:10 PM PST by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: Just another Joe
Will a US passport, even an expired one, be sufficient?

A US passport is the most definitive identification document there is in the US.

36 posted on 01/11/2008 1:08:20 PM PST by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: ECM

Show me your papers, comrade!?!?!

We did NOT defeat the Soviet Union just so we could become them.

This march towards overwhealming government must be stared down. That it is currently emmanating from our side means we’re the ones that have to stop this.


37 posted on 01/11/2008 1:10:19 PM PST by skipper18 (Fred or Bust)
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To: weegee
I’ll use my passport to get on a plane. The State has no business in this.

Passports are best and will be acceptable, these state IDs are for people who don’t want to spend $90 on a passport.

38 posted on 01/11/2008 1:12:12 PM PST by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: goron

Mark o’ the beast! Mark o’ the beast!! AAAAAUUUUUUGGGHHH!


39 posted on 01/11/2008 1:17:07 PM PST by jagusafr ("Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" - Robert Heinlein)
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To: skipper18

Germany was the same way.

We have learned nothing.


40 posted on 01/11/2008 1:18:35 PM PST by rineaux (tagline on strike.)
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To: skipper18
We did NOT defeat the Soviet Union just so we could become them.

I am confused by your overreaction, are you saying that people should not have to prove their identity when applying for a state ID? Should I be able to walk into a DMV and get a legal drivers license in your name with your address?

Should a state be producing identification documents that have no security features so that the documents could be reproduced in mass and sold at swap meets?

There is nothing Orwellian going on here, we are just cleaning up the system that has been in place since the 1920s by applying some consistent standards.

41 posted on 01/11/2008 1:25:05 PM PST by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: Myrddin

In the 1990s I went to take care of something right after motor voter went through.

There was a uniformed police officer standing duty at the DPS office. He tapped his gun and said something akin to “you can check that box to become registered now. Make sure you mark it Democrat.” Now he was “joking” of course and wouldn’t USE that gun to enforce his belief and was making it as a general discussion to all of us in the line, not a specific driver, but I still see it as a veiled threat.


42 posted on 01/11/2008 1:27:17 PM PST by weegee (Those who surrender personal liberty to lower global temperatures will receive neither.)
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To: usurper

The DMV has a culture of corruption.

I don’t feel safe giving those crooks my information knowing that false IDs will still be “approved”.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1881610/posts
Former DMV employee faces federal charges for fake licenses
The Associated Press ^ | 8/15/2007 | The Associated Press
Posted on 08/15/2007 10:46:14 AM PDT by Dubya

HIGH POINT, N.C. | A former Division of Motor Vehicles employee faces federal charges for distributing fake driver’s licenses produced on the job.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/626243/posts

Feds fear license examiner is dead - Memphis Woman’s co-defendants tied to 9/11, judge told
GoMemphis.com ^ | February 12, 2002 | Tom Bailey Jr.
Posted on 02/11/2002 10:19:36 PM PST by Shermy

A missing Tennessee driver’s license examiner charged with conspiring to provide licenses fraudulently was probably the victim of a “most unusual and suspicious” death, a federal prosecutor said Monday.

Asst. U.S. Atty. Tim Di Scenza also raised the possibility in court that Katherine Smith’s five codefendants are involved in terrorism against the United States, citing “connections” to Sept. 11 and the World Trade Center.


43 posted on 01/11/2008 1:30:17 PM PST by weegee (Those who surrender personal liberty to lower global temperatures will receive neither.)
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To: usurper
There is nothing Orwellian going on here, we are just cleaning up the system that has been in place since the 1920s by applying some consistent standards.

The Federal government cannot "apply" standard to State issued IDs.

There is a federal ID called a passport. But people might get more nervous about having to present that to enter all federal buildings and to fly even domestically.

44 posted on 01/11/2008 1:31:51 PM PST by weegee (Those who surrender personal liberty to lower global temperatures will receive neither.)
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To: jagusafr

“Mark o’ the beast! Mark o’ the beast!! AAAAAUUUUUUGGGHHH!”

No this isn’t the mark of the beast even though you are being sarcastic.

The beasts mark will be well known and will not be optional.


45 posted on 01/11/2008 1:33:49 PM PST by driftdiver
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To: usurper

In due time we will all need passports. If only to leave this country.


46 posted on 01/11/2008 1:34:35 PM PST by weegee (Those who surrender personal liberty to lower global temperatures will receive neither.)
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To: driftdiver

This is optional for now. If you don’t want to drive or fly. And don’t ever have to set foot in a federal building (like a social security office or congress).


47 posted on 01/11/2008 1:35:59 PM PST by weegee (Those who surrender personal liberty to lower global temperatures will receive neither.)
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To: Manly Warrior
Great question, I tell "all" this is the USA and I do not need to carry ID.

If Police would ask my name I would tell them. That is all they need.


Notice that I did not mention driving a vehicle in the above.

48 posted on 01/11/2008 1:37:09 PM PST by Buddy B (MSgt Retired-USAF)
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To: ECM
Bull, Mr. Chertoff!!!!

Americans and legal visitors and people here working w/work visas have NO problem, it's the 12/20 Million illegals that your administration refuses to do anything about!!!

You have a way to check their driver's licenses, social security cards, etc. against ID theft, how else can the IRS find us, social security locate us, etc.

The State Department's failure to keep up with visas, etc. is hardly the problem for legal Americans!!!

Hire some contract companies, check docs. against people you know who are here legally, send everyone else home - NO DEPORTATION hearings!!!!

49 posted on 01/11/2008 1:37:18 PM PST by zerosix (native sunflower)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

BTTT


50 posted on 01/11/2008 1:39:32 PM PST by dforest (Duncan Hunter is the best hope we have on both fronts.)
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