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Indiana Jones meets the Da Vinci Code
Asia times ^ | 14 jan 08 | Spengler

Posted on 01/14/2008 12:56:52 PM PST by rellimpank

By Spengler

Islam watchers blogged all weekend about news that a secret archive of ancient Islamic texts had surfaced after 60 years of suppression. Andrew Higgins' Wall Street Journal report that the photographic record of Koranic manuscripts, supposedly destroyed during World War II but occulted by a scholar of alleged Nazi sympathies, reads like a conflation of the Da Vinci Code with Indiana Jones and the Holy Grail.

The Da Vinci Code offered a silly fantasy in which Opus Dei, homicidal monks and twisted billionaires chased after proof that Christianity is a hoax. But the story of the photographic archive of

the Bavarian Academy of Sciences, now ensconced in a Berlin vault, is a case of life imitating truly dreadful art. It even has Nazis. "I hate those guys!" as Indiana Jones said

(Excerpt) Read more at atimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: angelikaneuwirth; antichristian; antonspitaler; davincicode; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; gunterluling; islam; islamofascism; muslims; opusdei; religion; worldwareleven; wot

1 posted on 01/14/2008 12:56:55 PM PST by rellimpank
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Here’s some information about the “Lost Archives” I mentioned I’d read about in the WSJ.


2 posted on 01/14/2008 1:03:03 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ

What’s to debate...Muhammad was a rapist, murderer, child molester, pederast, homosexual, megalomaniac, and all around scumbag.


3 posted on 01/14/2008 1:11:42 PM PST by Ouderkirk (Hillary = Senator Incitatus, Clintigula's whore...er, horse.)
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To: rellimpank
To give some idea of how radical these manuscripts are for Islam:

It would be like finding a manuscript copy of the Gospels written in 60 AD - i.e. a copy older than any other existing Gospel manuscript - and discovering that it presented a different chronology of events and that key turns of phrase memorized by Christians for centuries like "only-begotten Son", "blessed are the meek" etc. were originally different.

And even that doesn't give the whole story, because Christians believe that the Gospels were inspired by God, not directly dictated by God verbatim.

4 posted on 01/14/2008 1:14:31 PM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: blam

interesting ping (GGG?)


5 posted on 01/14/2008 1:14:55 PM PST by xcamel (FDT/2008)
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To: rellimpank

In the end, people believe whatever they want. Facts, reason, and logic make little difference. Faith will trump the truth every time.


6 posted on 01/14/2008 1:17:05 PM PST by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: Ouderkirk
What’s to debate...Muhammad was a rapist, murderer, child molester, pederast, homosexual, megalomaniac, and all around scumbag.

I presume your list is meant to be representative, not exhaustive.

7 posted on 01/14/2008 1:25:42 PM PST by RobinOfKingston (Man, that's stupid...even by congressional standards.)
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To: rbg81
Faith IS the key.

"The Critique of Pure reason" by Emmanuel Kant.

8 posted on 01/14/2008 1:27:25 PM PST by Sacajaweau ("The Cracker" will be renamed "The Crapper")
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To: SJackson; Alouette; Salem; NYer

Ping


9 posted on 01/14/2008 1:28:26 PM PST by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: rbg81; rellimpank; Sacajaweau
Faith is different from credulousness, gullibility. Ultimately it takes Faith (I'll spell that with a capital "F") to accept the inherently un-proveable position that all of this exists, that the phenomenal world is real (and not just maya, not an illusion) and that it has a comprehensible structure that corresponds to the cognitive structures of our minds, and that it actually matters.

Thus it makes sober sense to say, "I believe in order to understand." "I believe that without which nothing else is believable."

The question for the Muslims --- a serious question ---is whether they "believe" that faith must be reasonable -- must follow some interior set of laws which may transcend, but may not contradict, the truths apprehended by reason.

As we saw from Benedict 16's Regensberg address, it's a question which many Muslims find almost intolerably disturbing.

10 posted on 01/14/2008 1:44:21 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Do not accept a "truth" that comes without love, or a "love" that comes without truth. Edith Stein)
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To: SuziQ

Thanks for this. See mine at #10.


11 posted on 01/14/2008 1:45:25 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Do not accept a "truth" that comes without love, or a "love" that comes without truth. Edith Stein)
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To: wideawake
And even that doesn't give the whole story, because Christians believe that the Gospels were inspired by God, not directly dictated by God verbatim.

The contrast is more interesting when you realize that, for instance, the original teachings of Jesus were delivered in Aramaic, and the Gospels render most of them in Greek, of course. (Here and there you find an Aramaic word quoted.) But the Qur'an was supposed to have been transcribed directly from a heavenly original that Muhammad saw in visions; as such, it is essentially Arabic words, which would be blasphemous to translate.

12 posted on 01/14/2008 1:48:40 PM PST by thulldud (“America is a mean country and South Carolina is a meaner state,” ( Lonnie Randolph, NAACP))
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I take it you never read Kant.


13 posted on 01/14/2008 1:53:49 PM PST by Sacajaweau ("The Cracker" will be renamed "The Crapper")
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To: Ouderkirk
Muhammad was a rapist, murderer, child molester, pederast, homosexual, megalomaniac, and all around scumbag.

And those are his GOOD points! (rim shot).

14 posted on 01/14/2008 1:55:20 PM PST by SlowBoat407 (Just how will wrecking the U.S. economy save the planet?)
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To: Sacajaweau

Can’t say that I have. ;o)


15 posted on 01/14/2008 1:55:45 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (An honest man is the noblest work of God.)
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To: rellimpank

The Virgins and the Grapes: the “Christian” Origins of the Koran

* * *

A. – “I began from the idea that the language of the Koran must be studied from an historical-linguistic point of view. When the Koran was composed, Arabic did not exist as a written language; thus it seemed evident to me that it was necessary to take into consideration, above all, Aramaic, which at the time, between the 4th and 7th centuries, was not only the language of written communication, but also the lingua franca of that area of Western Asia.”

Q. – Tell us how you proceeded.

A. – “At first I conducted a ‘synchronous’ reading. In other words, I kept in mind both Arabic and Aramaic. Thanks to this procedure, I was able to discover the extent of the previously unsuspected influence of Aramaic upon the language of the Koran: in point of fact, much of what now passes under the name of ‘classical Arabic’ is of Aramaic derivation.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1119114/posts


16 posted on 01/14/2008 1:59:40 PM PST by SirJohnBarleycorn
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To: SirJohnBarleycorn

That is an interesting article...it will be a while before much can be made of these documents. Telling a Muslim his book may have been altered over time is like telling a King James Only believer that Jesus did not talk in Elizabethan English.

I thought it was common knowledge though that the Islam originated as a group of ticked off Jews trying to put people back on the way, so of course they borrowed Jewish and Christian writings to create their own. I think it was Mohamed himself that really messed things up with his visions.


17 posted on 01/14/2008 2:24:39 PM PST by DonaldC
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To: DonaldC

Uhmmm... Islam was not invented by Jews.


18 posted on 01/14/2008 2:31:02 PM PST by SolidWood (Al Gore: "I have never heard of this, but I think it is a very good idea,")
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To: DonaldC
Telling a Muslim his book may have been altered over time is like telling a King James Only believer that Jesus did not talk in Elizabethan English.

Say what?

If 'thee' and 'thou' were good enough for Paul and Silas then they're good enough for me.

8-) Hey, I'm kidding.

19 posted on 01/14/2008 2:33:01 PM PST by Ole Okie
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To: SolidWood

“Uhmmm... Islam was not invented by Jews.”

I did not mean invented by Jews, but an offshoot of them, a sect so to speak.

Personally, I like the theory that the Pope created the Muslims to combat the Anabaptists! hehehe


20 posted on 01/14/2008 2:42:23 PM PST by DonaldC
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To: Ole Okie; DonaldC

—the reason I eagerly await the “Rapture” is to see if any of those driverless cars careening down the highway collide with any with a “If It Ain’t the King James, It Ain’t the Bible” bumper sticker-—


21 posted on 01/14/2008 3:05:56 PM PST by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: rellimpank
Luxenburg's thesis became notorious for explaining that the "virgins" provided to Islamic jihadis in paradise were only raisins.

Some people are going to be very disappointed.

22 posted on 01/14/2008 3:15:14 PM PST by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: rellimpank
From the article:

The Islamic world is forced to adopt an openly irrational stance, employing its power to intimidate scholars and frustrate the search for truth.

Golly, we'd hate for them to adapt an openly irrational stance, for the first time, wouldn't we?
23 posted on 01/14/2008 3:34:29 PM PST by horse_doc (Visualize a world where a tactical nuke went off at Max Yasgur's farm in 1969.)
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To: horse_doc
--I doubt that there has been a rational stance taken by an Islamic scholar in about a thousand years--but of course, Islam is not the first religion to "intimidate scholars and frustrate the search for truth."--
24 posted on 01/14/2008 3:55:37 PM PST by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
As we saw from Benedict 16's Regensberg address, it's a question which many Muslims find almost intolerably disturbing.

So true. If these archives show that the Koran has, in fact, been changed over time, it will be difficult for the more fundamentalist Muslims to accept. As you pointed out, just asking them to be reasonable brought out the worst in them.

25 posted on 01/14/2008 7:21:40 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: DonaldC
I thought it was common knowledge though that the Islam originated as a group of ticked off Jews trying to put people back on the way

Common knowledge among whom?

26 posted on 01/14/2008 7:31:12 PM PST by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: wideawake
It would be like finding a manuscript copy of the Gospels written in 60 AD - i.e. a copy older than any other existing Gospel manuscript - and discovering that it presented a different chronology of events and that key turns of phrase memorized by Christians for centuries like "only-begotten Son", "blessed are the meek" etc. were originally different.

There are fragments of Mark that are older than that.
27 posted on 01/14/2008 7:35:26 PM PST by aruanan
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To: rellimpank

Most of the truly ancient copies of the Koran and other related writings were destroyed by the Muslims themselves.


28 posted on 01/14/2008 7:38:01 PM PST by aruanan
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To: rellimpank
Islam is bound by the simple fact that it is completely made up.
A group who hated Christians and Jews, fabricated their own religion.
Mohamed was a fiction writer who didn’t go on strike.
29 posted on 01/14/2008 7:43:45 PM PST by HereInTheHeartland ("We have to drain the swamp" George Bush, September 2001)
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To: aruanan
There are fragments of Mark that are older than that.

Indeed. But these Koran texts are more than just fragments - they are close to being an entire manuscript.

30 posted on 01/15/2008 2:58:32 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: HereInTheHeartland
A group who hated Christians and Jews, fabricated their own religion.

Actually not at first. The Christian and Jewish societies of the Arabian Peninsula were the high tech societies and the founders of the first permanent cities of that region. The wandering nomads who hired themselves out as mercenaries to both Rome and Persia in their wars against each other used both Christian and Jewish elements in proto-Islam to attract adherents from both religions. It didn't work. Both Christians and Jews told them to pound sand. It was after that rejection that they became implacable toward Christians and Jews. Besides, by that time the Black death had reduced both Rome and Persia to the point that they didn't need the services of the nomads, so they had to turn to other pursuits--they started to prey on other nearby societies, the Jewish and Christian kingdoms of the Arabian Peninsula.
31 posted on 01/15/2008 4:00:15 AM PST by aruanan
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To: SunkenCiv

ping

Related thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1956567/posts


32 posted on 01/20/2008 4:57:40 AM PST by Perdogg (Huckabee got his foreign policy from IHOP, McCain got his immigration policy from The Waffle House)
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To: Perdogg

Thanks Perdogg.

Ancient Islamic Texts Resurface
(Impugning The Legitimacy of the Koran,Islam)
The Third Eye Concept | January 14, 2008 | Staff
Posted on 01/19/2008 5:38:36 AM EST by america4vr
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1956189/posts


33 posted on 01/20/2008 4:57:40 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__________________Profile updated Wednesday, January 16, 2008)
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To: Perdogg

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Note: this topic is from 1/14/2008.

Blast from the Past.

Thanks rellimpank.

Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


34 posted on 05/28/2012 5:44:09 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FReepathon 2Q time -- https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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