Skip to comments.‘Renaissance Couldn’t Have Happened Without Muslim Input’
Posted on 01/15/2008 5:15:30 AM PST by forkinsocket
click here to read article
Seems to me I just recently read in the Smithsonian Magazine about the destruction of the great library in Alexandria, Egypt by the conquering mohammedens. Maybe that was just an isolated incident, though.
Why were those Byzantine scholars fleeing to the west?
Because Byzantium was under attack from moslem hordes.
Giving moslems credit for the renaissance is like giving a burglar credit for thwarting later attempted robberies, because his initial burglary made the victim install a better alarm system.
To be completely honest it was the 4th Crusade with crippled the Byzantine Empire and left it ripe for the taking.
And I thank you for your very interesting and informative post.
Thank you for the link.
I minored in Portuguese and we studied the history of the Muslims and their achievements on the Iberian peninsula. There is a lot of truth to this - with the West overlooking a lot of the achievements by the Islamic empire.
Makes one wonder why that dropped off. No denying that it did.
“Try doing algebra some time, and math without arabic numerals”
You mean the symbols that the arabs call Hindu numerals?
And the 4th Crusade was in response to raging Buddhists?
Which the Muslim conquerers of India got from Indian mathematicians, then re-labeled as their own
And from Venetians. And from Persians. And from Greeks.
Arabs were not his sole tutors, and he knew enough about the system of calculation he was using to know that it was Indian, not Arabic.
my understanding is that some of the Greek texts, especially in mathematics, were eventually translated into Latin and vernacular from Arabic translations.
The argument can be made that several texts were only available in Arabic because Muslim invasions of Greek territories and the destruction of Greek monasteries had rendered the preferred Greek originals unavailable.
It's hard to call that a net contribution to scholarship.
I would also point out that many of these Arabic texts were translated and preserved by Arabic-speaking Jews, not by Muslims.
My point is not that there was absolutely no interaction with Muslim sources in the Renaissance, but that Muslim contributions are far, far less than what Muslim and philoIslamic sources would have people believe.
If the Muslim invasions had never happened, Hindu and Persian mathematical research would have continued, and countless treasures of Greek antiquity in every field would have survived.
As it stands today, all the surviving texts of the Athenian golden age can fit in an standard set of bookshelves from Home Depot. And that's not the fault of all the Greek monks who studiously preserved those texts until they were murdered by janissaries.
That’s the whole point, to take Christ out of everything.
That COMMON era crap just irks me to no end.
Don’t know about Spain, but I know that it’s taught in Portugal.
Constantinople was a Christian city...and they sacked it, not the Muslims. By the time the Muslims got to it less then 200 years later, the city had shrunk so much that it had individual villages inside the walls.
I will only say that once I was discovered to have instruments of math instruction....
But let's not protract this discussion . . .
ping to post 50 and 65
And with some versions, it goes on and on. Only math dweebs can really appreciate this stuff!
if you only knew . . .
Diophantus of Egypt is credited as the "father of Algebra" (400 years before Mohammed), and Algebra was developed gradually over centuries from China to India to Persia. Arabic numerals predated Islam. That is the point. Arab culture produced much, but post-Islamic conquest, those developments declined rapidly.
The book? "The Bible for Dummies".
I kid you not.
I am not familiar with “The Bible for Dummies”, but I suspect it was not prepared by conservative evangelicals.
By chasing Christians out of the middle east?
Renaissance Couldnt Have Happened Without Muslim Input
These towel hats, currently living in the 6th century, have the nerve to imply they are the seeds of western knowlege.
What arrogant @$$wipes.
Your attitude is not very useful, I think. Civilizations are interconnected in all kinds of ways. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that. I’m feeling too lazy right now to actually look anything up, but to give a small example, I went to the National Folk Festival this summer and heard, among other things, classical Persian music. I was surprised at the similarity to classical Indian music. This is not surprising, considering the geographical proximity of ancient Persia to India. Various traders were instrumental in spreading cultural influences.
The name-calling (towel hats, arrogant @$$wipes) does nothing to protect us from Islamic extremists. In fact, it helps them by further alienating more moderate Arabs.
Rockefeller showed them how to pump oil.
“This article is a piece of nothing.”
And from the Arab News no less. Go figure.
It still sounds too much like the strange-looking sheep trying to explain away the wolf’s tail dragging along behind him.
It would be more accurate to say that Syrian, Greek, Persian and Coptic cultural achievement peaked before Islam mostly because Islam conquered those cultures and crippled them with shahada, jizyah and jihad.
Avicenna was a Persians who flourished in the Bukhara area in the first half of the eleventh century. Bukhara was militarily conquered by the Arabs in 750. They tried to rule and convert it for a hundred years without success until around 840 the Saman clan - prominent Zoroastrian nobles who converted to Islam - made it their capital.
The largely Zoroastrian population at that point began converting to Islam.
It is possible that Avicenna was only a third generation Muslim and still had Zoroastrian relatives.
Alhazen may have been Persian. He was from Basra, which was a mixed Persian and Arab city at that time. He was an almost exact contemporary of Avicenna and he was obviously very well-versed in Persian/Indian mathematics.
Clearly both were building on Persian cultural achievements - there was no Arab mathematics in the late 900s for them to draw on - but there was plenty of Persian and Indian work.
One could also mention Alfarabi, a Muslim philosopher and scientist of Baghdad in the 900s - who was tutored in the disciplines by a Monophysite Christian priest named Yochanan bin Hailan. Again, an example of a Muslim thinker who did not base his work on Islam or indigenous Arab culture.
Averroes was an Arab who lived 150 years after and 2,500 miles away from the other two. He was considered an apostate from Islam, however and his philosophical models were Greek - again there was no indigenous Arab philosophy to build on.
There was also a great period of Muslim-Jewish cooperation at the time with Maimonides in Egypt.
Of course, the only reason why Maimonides was living in Egypt instead of Cordoba is because he and his family escaped being put to the sword like the rest of the Jews of Cordoba at the hands of Sunni fanatic Abd Al-Mumin.
He prospered in Egypt under the leadership of the Kurdish non-Arab Saladin, who is acknowledged as one of medieval history's most uniquely tolerant monarchs.
Certain Arab thinkers proposed something close to heliocentric theory centuries before Copernicus did.
Bishop Nicolas Oresmes did as well.
“Renaissance Couldnt Have Happened Without Muslim Input”
I love these Islamic Apologia articles.
Never a mention of what cultures/technology the Muslims simply
appropriated or destroyed when they took over The Middle East,
North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula in a campaign of rape,
torture, murder and conversion at the point of the sword.
The REAL reason there was a Renaissance is that the center of Western
Civilization kept Muslims the h-ll out of Western Europe by force of arms!
so what have you done lately..?
Almost all of the “discoveries” they are trying to claim are either Indian in origin, or predate Islam by centuries. Islam is a dead-end religion with nothing to offer the world but destruction.
Thank Islam for the Dark Ages and collapse of western civilization - read “Mohammad and Charlemagne”
Islam’s spread throughout northern Africa and slave and commerce raiding in the Mediterranean made communications by sea in Europe on the northern shore of the Mediterranean difficult or impossible.
Neither of which are Islamacists' inventions. You can thank the Indians for both.
No, that’s like saying Europe invaded, divided, and occupied the US for a century starting in 1812, and for the next century was plagued with dictators and civil war and was finally taken over by Mexico.
If you’re in a time of no significant technological change, you can screw over a country for centuries.
Radical Islam is an insane murder cult.
Moderate Islam is its Trojan Horse in the West. ( borrowed from another freeper)
I think there are moderate Muslims, they are even the large majority, but I do not believe there is a moderate Islam,
Philippe de Villiers, head of the anti-immigrant Movement for France (MPF) party
as reported by Pope Benedict XVI 9-12-2006:
Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached. Byzantine Emperor -Manuel II Paleologus 1391
In the year 1768 the Muslim siege of Vienna (Austria) was broken and the last (before Today) great Muslim conquest ended.
Eight short years later, in 1776 a great country is born; it experiences the greatest prosperity in the history of the world. While Islam declines -continually.
As the liberals are fond of asking: “why do they hate us?”
From the historic perspective, the answer is good ol’Democrap envy.
I presume you've heard of Emperor Manuel II Palaiologos (the one who said "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."). He went on a long tour of Western Europe, hat in hand, because what was left of the empire after the reunification wasn't able to sustain itself without aid.
One of the goals Osama lists is the reacquisition of the Iberian peninsula. Maybe Islam can accomplish via immigration what it is unable to do by military strength.
I wonder how severe the Muslim immigration to Spain in. I’ve never been there. In Portugal, the Muslim presence is nonexistent. There might be some, but it would come as a surprise to most Portuguese. Their immigration consists of blacks from Brazil & their African ex-colonies.
Portugal does not seem to be getting most of the Muslim immigrants. France and Spain? Big time.
Bookmarking this thread for your reply.
Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.
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Posted on 01/17/2008 10:24:05 AM EST by forkinsocket
Islam is still in the 7th century.
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