AIDS Patients Face Downside of Living Longer (effects of AIDS drugs "worse than having AIDS")

New York Times ^ | January 6, 2008 | JANE GROSS

[GodGunsGuts]

Those explanations do not satisfy Larry Kramer, founder of several AIDS advocacy groups. Mr. Kramer, 73 and a long-term survivor, said he had always suspected “it was only a matter of time before stuff like this happened” given the potency of the antiretroviral drugs. “How long will the human body be able to tolerate that constant bombardment?” he asked. “Well, we are now seeing that many bodies can’t. Once again, just as we thought we were out of the woods, sort of, we have good reason again to be really scared.”

[tacticalogic]

Fair enough.

[jas3]

Whatever. I’m right. Your still wrong.

And we’re done.

The "nanny-nanny-poo-poo" argument is generally not considered to be authoritative in questions of medicine or science.

The fact is that you stated viruses can't be stopped. I demonstrated that they can by giving two specific examples (smallpox, which has been eliminated, and yellow fever, which is stopped via vaccine).

So then you changed your argument to claim that viruses can only be stopped with other viruses. I demonstrated that statement to also be false. Of the many types of vaccination, only one uses live, attenuated viruses. There are at least three other vaccination types which are: toxoids, subunits, and those that use dead pathogens. There are several other types of newer vaccines as well.

And we’re done.

That's about what I expect from people on this thread who make preposterously false claims when those claims are demonstrated to be patently wrong.

jas3

[Badeye]

There is no cure for a virus. Period.

[GodGunsGuts]

I of course disagree with the negative characterizations of Duesberg I am reading by some on this thread. The AIDS establishment never acted responsibly with respect to Duesberg’s challenge to the HIV-AIDS hypothesis. When his first paper was published in the Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), rather than behaving like responsible scientists, the AIDS establishment bristled that the paper had escaped being “flagged” during the pre-publication process, and then they immediately launched a campaign to counter it. First they tried to persuade Peter Duesberg to recant, failing that they dispatched various generals in the War on AIDS to counter it, not once bothering to determine if Duesberg was onto something. All of this can be documented. In short, Duesberg has been surpressed by the AIDS establishment from day one.

Now, I ask you again, will you read the paper carefully or not? If you require and older paper, or a more recent paper, I can provide those too.

[dgiovan]

That’s the biggest load of horse manure I’ve ever seen. Anti-HIV drugs cause AIDS? And repair shops cause auto accidents, too, I suppose!

[tacticalogic]

Maybe I should have been clearer. Has the research been peer reviewed, and can you provide any of that review that supports him, or subsequent research that reproduces his results and conclusions?

So far all you've done is ask me to read it, submit that any and all criticism of it is a conspiracy of lies by the "AIDS establishment", and apparently expect it to be accepted as self-evident truth.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Nice post #76!

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Thousands of people....

My point is that there is no reason for them to die from AIDS.

The current drug regimes eliminate the virus from detection.

If they're dying of AIDS its because they won't take the drugs, or they're dying of some of the other STD's that travel with HIV.

[Osage Orange]

If they're dying of AIDS its because they won't take the drugs, or they're dying of some of the other STD's that travel with HIV.

Actually...thousands die, because they cannot get treatment.

[jas3]

There is no cure for a virus. Period.

That's your second modification to your original statement that viruses couldn't be stopped (which was wrong). Your first modification was that viruses could only be stopped with other viruses (which was also wrong).

I'm not sure how to respond to "there is no cure for a virus." I'm not even sure what you mean. I'm not even sure YOU know what you mean.

Is there also no cure for a bacteria? Or for a protozoa?

Generally it is medical conditions which are cured not viruses or bacteria or protozoa. So one would say "I have found a cure for Lyme" whereas one would not say "I have found the cure for Borrelia burgdorferi ."

The goal in HIV/AIDS research and in medicine generally is to make sick people healthy and to prevent healthy people from becoming sick.

We can achieve those goals without "curing" a virus, just as we have eliminated smallpox, nearly eliminated polio, and have reduced many other viruses to mere nuisances. So whether we agree on the semantics of the word "cure" or not isn't really relevant.

jas3

[Badeye]

Whatever.

[jas3]

That’s the biggest load of horse manure I’ve ever seen. Anti-HIV drugs cause AIDS? And repair shops cause auto accidents, too, I suppose!

It is a Conspiracy Theory that was long ago disproven. But the original poster of this thread has been repeatedly spamming Free Republic by posting HIV/AIDS articles as a ruse so that he can go on and on about his Conspiracy Theory.

This is the 7th such thread on which I have found him doing so. His MO is to post a few lines of an HIV/AIDS article and then drop several thousands of words on his pet theory into the comments on that first post.

He operates on the strategy that if he posts the same thing over and over again, people will believe him.

Fortunately there are some MDs and scientists on FR who are willing to spend their time countering this nonsense.

jas3

[jas3]

Thanks.

If people are going to post long ago disproven HIV/AIDS Conspiracy Theories to Free Republic, then I’m going to post the facts so people can judge for themselves.

jas3

[CDHart]

Conor is right.

Carolyn

[nicmarlo]

(1) AIDS is not contagious. For example, not even one health care worker has contracted AIDS from over 800,000 AIDS patients in America and Europe.

That is CDC propaganda and is a lie.

Evidence contradicting these assertions have been presented long ago in case reports wherein "infection was acquired by a mother (a nurse) who was providing out-of-hospital nursing care for her infant and knew standard infection control practices; an English home-care nurse who became infected for caring for an African patient; a German child infected with HIV nonsexually from his three-year-old brother; an unexplained transmission in an 11-year-old male with a two-year-old sibling and mother infected; as well as an elderly impotent male who infected his 601-year-old wife. Moreover, the CDC released three cases in which health care workers were infected from splatter type exposures, one of whom had the infected blood spilled only on her hands."

O'Connor, W.T. (1988). AIDS: The Alarming Reality. [See also: Friedland, G., Saltzman, B., et al. (1986). "Lack of transmission of HTLV-III/LAV infection to household contacts of patients with AIDS or AIDS-related complex with oral candidiasis. New England Journal of Medicine, 314:6:344-349.]

[nicmarlo]

an elderly impotent male who infected his 601-year-old wife.

should read: an elderly impotent male who infected his 61-year-old wife.

[najida]

What about the high percentage of victims who are kids?

Do you rejoice in their suffering?

(I know the answer)

[GodGunsGuts]

==So far all you’ve done is ask me to read it, submit that any and all criticism of it is a conspiracy of lies by the “AIDS establishment”, and apparently expect it to be accepted as self-evident truth.

You were the one who requested a paper that wasn’t “too new” or “too old.” I supplied one. As for the suppression of Duesberg’s work by the AIDS establishment, I said I could document it. Why don’t you take me up on it? If you need a newer paper, I can supply it. If you need an older paper, I can supply it. I’m starting to think you are afraid to read Duesberg’s work lest you too become convinced that his work deserves to be funded.

[najida]

Thanks,
The ‘Burn the Witch’ crowd are quite annoying and tiresome.

[jas3]

That is CDC propaganda and is a lie.

You are right that it is propaganda and it is a lie. But the propagandizer/liar is Duesberg, the author of that sentence, and not the CDC which agrees with you, me, and the rest of the scientific and medical community that HIV is contagious.

The only people who disagree are Conspiracy Theorists like Duesberg and a couple posters on this thread with no medical or scientific training or education.

jas3