Be prepared to go on forever with jas3. He claims to be a scientist, and yet I kicked his you know what in a 500+ reply debate re: AIDS. Unfortunately, the thread was pulled. But be prepared for jas3 to go on forever using a scattershot approach designed to keep you chasing your tail. If you are going to engage him, my suggestion is to ignore his scattershots and focus on one thing at a time, and don’t leave the point until you have thoroughly proved him wrong. Just a little advice from your friendly, neighborhood GGG.
What do think is the best evidence that failure to use ARVs is fatal for those who are HIV positive.?
Clinical evidence. HIV+ people who don't take ARVs
Consider the late editor of Continuum magazine who published Duesberg's works. He's dead today because he refused to take ARVs. Talk to physicians who treat the HIV+, including those who are FREEPERS and post on this board. They report that HAART therapies are extremely effective at keeping their patients alive and that those who don't take ARZs die.
Here's a representative sample of people who believed that tripe that GodsGunsGuts passes off as truth:
Ken Anderlini was a co-moderator of the AIDS Myth Exposed message board on MSN. Anderlini died in April of 2007. Denialist David Crowe from the Alberta Reappraising AIDS Society wrote an announcement of his death, saying: Over the past couple of years his health had declined rapidly with a strange neurological disease for which nobody could pinpoint the cause (except doctors who claimed it was HIV related, of course).
Fela Anikulapo-Kuti, the great Nigerian music star, died in 1997 of a disease he claimed didnt exist, and certainly not in Africa: AIDS. No matter that Felas older brother, Professor Olikoye Ransome-Kuti, had served as the countrys health minister and launched Nigerias much-lauded early AIDS program. . . . There was hardly an illness African herbs couldnt cure, Fela maintained, and he dismissed condoms as unnatural, unpleasurable, and a white plot to reduce the black birthrate. He believed, says Olikoye, that all doctors were fabricating AIDS, including myself. Fela was 58.
(Mark Schoofs, A Tale of Two Brothers Part 2: Fela Didnt Believe AIDS Existed. But then he died of the disease. His brother is still trying to convince Felas fans that HIV is real. Village Voice, November 10 - 16, 1999.)
A member of the denialist ACT UP/San Francisco, Michael Bellafontaine died on May 10, 2007. He was 41. His Bay Area Reporter obituary said that According to Andrea Lindsay, a friend and fellow activist, Mr. Bellefountaine died of a sudden systemic infection, though the exact cause has not been determined. http://ebar.com/obituaries/index.php?sec=ob&article=252
Sophie Brassard, a Canadian, was the HIV-positive mother of two HIV-positive, perinatally-infected sons. Citing the influence of HEAL, Alive and Well, Duesberg and Mullis, she refused to allow her children access to medical care when the became ill and fled the country with them. She consequently lost custody and parental rights. She died of AIDS on September 16, 2002, at age 37. http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000186.html
Ronnie Burke was a member of the dissident group ACT UP/San Francisco (which has been denounced by other legitimate ACT UP groups). He died from AIDS in March of 2003 at the age of 47.
Sylvie Cousseau contributed to a list of testimonials from people who tested HIV positive but embraced AIDS denial and rejected HIV treatment. This list of testimonials features on several different websites, including HEAL Toronto and the personal web pages of Rudolf Werner, Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology at the University of Miami.
Sylvie Cousseau was the partner of Mark Griffiths. Sylvie died in 2001 at age 41. Cousseaus death was reported in postings to AIDS denial message boards in France.
Mark Griffiths ran a denialist website called Altheal (along with a French version, Sidasante), until he died in October 2004. In the article linked below, the AIDS denialist Liam Scheff ponders the cause of his death, suggesting Griffiths may still have been using heroin (because he seemed a bit groggy sometimes); this is despite the fact that Griffiths had undergone successful recovery in the late 1980s. Scheff ultimately concluded that Griffiths died because he was abusing alcohol. http://www.altheal.org/altheal/markmemorial.htm
Another associate, Emma Hollister, suggests Griffiths death was related to a course of antibiotics taken several months before for dental work: http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/emma_holister/2005/01/07/aids_dissidence_movement_loses_a.htm
Robert Johnston was a co-founder of HEAL Toronto and a co-author of the self-described rebuttal of the Durban Declaration that was posted to HEAL Torontos website in 2000. At the time, he wrote: Robert Johnston is a co-founder of HEAL Toronto, and has been HIV-positive since 1985 yet has suffered no unusual illness since that time. He attributes his good health to not taking any anti-HIV medications and to not believing that his positive antibody test has much significance.
Johnston died three years later on April 3, 2003. As with all other similar cases, Johnstons colleagues claim his death was not caused by HIV infection. David Crowe wrote that he died of liver failure completely unrelated to AIDS.
Kelly Jon Landis
We regret to report that Kelly Jon Landis died December 3, 2007 in Santa Monica, CA, at age 39 after suffering for several months with lymphoma and other AIDS symptoms. Self-described as the dissident saint, he was a health food fanatic and avid bicycle rider who avoided standard medical care and sought alternative therapies. He felt that simply leading a drug-free healthy lifestyle would protect him from disease.
Although a dissident himself, Kelly Jon Landis vocally opposed the homophobia rampant among HIV/AIDS denialists.
Jack Levine was a regular poster to the Virusmyth message board. When he became sick and began to question denialism, the other board members turned on him, which eventually led to the Virusmyth message board being taken permanently offline in order to hide the appalling record of what happened. Levine died from AIDS in March of 2002 at the age of 47. http://www.thebody.com/cgi-bin/bbs/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=living&Number=41833&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=9&o=&vc=1
Raphael Lombardo was a gay man who believed Peter Duesbergs claims that HIV was harmless. Lombardo wrote to Duesberg on May 30, 1995, noting that he had never used any recreational drugs or pharmaceuticals and was not sick, despite testing HIV positive (the letter was titled Life without AZT !). Duesberg published the entire letter in his book Inventing the AIDS Virus and wrote of Lombardo: His letter proves that true science does not depend on institutional authority. (The letter is posted at: http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/pdazt.htm
Raphael Lombardo died of AIDS a little over a year later, on June 11, 1996. When asked about Lombardos death, Duesberg wrote: In hindsight, I think his letter was almost too good to be true. I am afraid now, he described the man he wanted to be [e.g. that he did not use recreational drugs] and his Italian family expected him to be, but not the one he really was. I think he died from Kaposis. (Source: Email to Richard Jefferys from Peter Duesberg, Wednesday, April 05, 2006)
When this correspondence was published on the internet, Duesberg was contacted by Raphael Lombardos sister, Regina, who was incensed by Duesbergs claim that her brother had covertly used poppers or other recreational drugs (as Duesberg was implying). Duesberg wrote back to her and told her that she was wrong, too.
Peter Makoba, a senior politician in South Africas African Nationalist Congress Party and a prominent denialist, died in 2002 at the age of 43 from AIDS-related pneumonia after a long illness. He denied that he had AIDS and rejected antiviral drugs as poison. http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,753812,00.html
Marietta Ndziba was used by the vitamin salesman Matthias Rath to market multivitamins as an alternative to antiretroviral treatment. In a pamphlet distributed by Rath and his agents in Cape Town, South Africa in September 2005, she was quoted as saying that her CD4 count rose from 365 to 841 due to Raths vitamins. She implied that these vitamins treated boils on her arm, her grey skin, diarrhoea and vomiting. She said I just thank God that he brings vitamins here to South Africa to help our lives. As far as the South African AIDS activist organisation Treatment Action Campaign could ascertain Ndziba never took antiretrovirals. She died in about October 2005. One family member reportedly claimed that she died of a stress headache. Raths vitamins clearly did not help Ndziba. She should have been treated by qualified doctors in the public health system, not Rath or his agents.
Astoundingly, a video recording of Ndziba claiming the benefits of Raths vitamins continued to be available on the front page of Raths South African website until January 2006. (Source: TAC)
David Pasquarelli, a leader of the denialist group ACT UP San Francisco developed PCP, anemia, thrush, meningitis, mycobacterium and disseminated CMV before he died in March of 2004. He was 37. http://www.davidpasquarelli.com/
Casper G. Schmidt
Casper G. Schmidt was a psychiatrist who published The Group-Fantasy Origins of AIDS in the Journal of Psychohistory in 1984. The article, which claimed that AIDS was not a real disease but a product of epidemic hysteria, is still regularly cited by AIDS denialists. Schmidt died from AIDS in 1994.
Tony Tompsett wrote for the denialist newsletter Continuum from 1993 until just before his death in 1998 at age 39 from Kaposis sarcoma, toxoplasmosis and possible pneumonia. http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/cgi-bin/res.pl?keyword=Tony+Tompsett&offset=0
Huw Christie Williams
Huw Christie (Huw Christie Harry Williams) was an editor of Continuum, a long-running AIDS denialist newsletter from the UK that folded when all the editors died. Huw Christie developed Kaposis sarcoma and died in August of 2001. He was 41. http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/mbobituaryhc.htm
In an email, Peter Duesberg described Christies death as follows: Did you know Hugh* Christie? Also a gay friend of mine from London, filmmaker and editor of the very popular British gay-interested journal, Continuum. Christie campaigned actively against the health and AIDS hazards of poppers in Continuum. Like me, he was invited by Mbeki, to discuss the causes of AIDS in Africa in 2000. And a year or two later he passed away with Kaposis, from long-term over- use/addiction to poppers!* (Source: Email to Richard Jeffreys from Peter Duesberg, Wednesday, April 05, 2006. *Name misspelled and exclamation point in the original.)
Jody Wells was the founder of the U.K. denialist newsletter Continuum. He had multiple bouts of PCP before he died in August of 1995. http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/continuum/obituary.htm
Scott Zanetti, Morristown NJ, died October 6, 2002 at age 52. Scott Zanetti is another contributor to the list of testimonials mentioned in the entry on Sylvie Cousseau, above. Zanetti also wrote to POZ magazine about being inspired by the writings of Celia Farber, and contributed to the personal stories on the HEAL San Diego website.
There are hundreds more dead Americans who contracted HIV from a variety of sources who are dead because they believed the nonsense that GodsGunsGuts posts here on FreeRepublic.
Most of the "HIV is Harmless" sites are no longer updated, in large part because the founders/owners of those sites were HIV+ and decided to refuse HAART. They are by and large now dead.