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Giuliani isn't swaying them in Florida
LA Times ^ | 01/15/08 | Louise Roug

Posted on 01/15/2008 9:12:08 PM PST by advance_copy

For an hour Monday, Rudolph W. Giuliani passionately made his case to voters seated in the Shell Point retirement community chapel.

He talked of tax cuts and terrorist attacks, of building up the military and cracking down on illegal immigration.

But in the end, he didn't seem to close the deal.

Dozens of the more than 1,000 who attended the town hall event took off before Giuliani finished his speech, leaving rows of seats empty.

"I didn't hear anything I hadn't heard before," said Barbara Vitello, 71. "It's the first time ever I'm going into the [presidential] election not knowing who I'll vote for," she said.

Her 79-year-old husband, Joe, agreed.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; giuliani; giulianitruthfile; gungrabber; itsoverrudy; liberal; rino; stickaforkinit
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And Giuliani only got 3% tonight in Michigan. He finished behind Ron Paul.
1 posted on 01/15/2008 9:12:09 PM PST by advance_copy
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To: advance_copy

Boy, he’s sounding truly pathetic.


2 posted on 01/15/2008 9:13:35 PM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: advance_copy

Boy, he’s sounding truly pathetic.


3 posted on 01/15/2008 9:13:35 PM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: advance_copy

Niters Ruti.


4 posted on 01/15/2008 9:17:41 PM PST by doc1019 (Rabbit and the Hare … Fred ‘08)
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To: advance_copy

There’s a real opening for Fred in Florida if he cinches South Carolina.


5 posted on 01/15/2008 9:19:53 PM PST by counterpunch (GOP Convention '08 — Go For Brokered!)
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To: advance_copy

Rudy is the biggest flop since Ryan Leaf.

6 posted on 01/15/2008 9:20:58 PM PST by yellowhammer ( Mitt Romney '08)
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To: advance_copy

Probably because his supporters voted for Romney to stop McCain.


7 posted on 01/15/2008 9:21:16 PM PST by Ooh-Ah
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To: advance_copy

Back to Nu Yerk Rudi.


8 posted on 01/15/2008 9:22:43 PM PST by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
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To: advance_copy

There’s still plenty of time for Romney to pull off an upset.


9 posted on 01/15/2008 9:23:25 PM PST by Romneyfor President2008
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To: advance_copy

I kind of miss the dear old days of Rudy bashing....:(


10 posted on 01/15/2008 9:24:36 PM PST by HerrBlucher (Fred will crush the beast and send her back through the gates of hell.)
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To: advance_copy

Rudy is not on a roll.


11 posted on 01/15/2008 9:25:14 PM PST by beaversmom
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To: HerrBlucher
I kind of miss the dear old days of Rudy bashing....:(

LOL I wonder what they even talk about over at WideAwakes--given Rudy's 'Howard Deanesque' total collapse in the national polls?? (no scream even required)

12 posted on 01/15/2008 9:29:15 PM PST by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will UNITE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: advance_copy

I don’t trust the L.A. Times’ facts, let alone their opinion pieces disguised as news pieces.


13 posted on 01/15/2008 9:40:28 PM PST by Moral Hazard (Fred Thompson/Joe Don Baker in 08, because America needs bald, beefy character actors!)
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To: ConservativeMind
I will say I told you so when republicans lose badly in November because they don’t nominate Rudy,Conservative are signing their own death certificate,Rush is right,the conservative movement will die.I know I will get alot of negative responses but some conservatives, like Rush stated, have tunnel vision and it will kill the movement.Conservative will be nothing but a joke to the liberals.
14 posted on 01/15/2008 9:53:57 PM PST by patriciamary (9)
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To: All

“Culture of life:

ABC clip:

George Will: “Do you think Roe v Wade was good constitutional law?”

Rudy Giuliani: “Yes I believe, I believe it is.”

Cnn Clip:

Announcer: “Giuliani was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial birth abortions, something Bush strongly supports.”

Rudy Giuliani : “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing.”

Immigration

CNN clip:

Announcer: “Back in 1996, mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants.”

Rudy Giuliani: “There isn’t a mayor or a public official in this country that’s more strongly pro immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about two or three years ago.”

Gun control:

CNN clip

Rudy Giuliani: “I’m in favor of gun control”

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: “How about registration of all handguns?”

Rudy Giuliani: “You know I’m in favor of that. I’ve been on your show many times.”

Gay Rights:

CNN Clip:

Announcer: “As mayor he supported civil unions, and extending health and other benefits to gay couples.”

ABC Clip: “I supported domestic partnership legislation and signed it”

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: “So should gay people be openly allowed to serve?”

“I think people should be judged on the merits. And there should not be a specific focus on someone’s sexual orientation.”

First Amendment:

ABC Clip

Cokie Roberts: “Would you vote in the senate in favor of Mccain / Feingold?”

Rudy Giuliani: “Yes, I’m a big supporter of Mccain / Feingold. I have been for a long time.”

Party Loyalty:

ABC Clip:

Rudy Giuliani: “Frankly George, I’d like to run on all the lines. I’d like to run on the liberal line, the conservative line, I’d like to run on the democratic line if I could figure out how to do it.”

Conservative Values:

Meet The Press:

Tim Russert: “Whether it’s gays in the military, gun control, campaign finance, late term abortion - you and Hillary Clinton are in sync on those issues.”

Rudy Giuliani: “Well then maybe the other side should stop the ‘He’s part of the vast right wing conspiracy’.”

....
CNN clip:

Announcer: “Back in 1996, mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants.”

Rudy Giuliani: “There isn’t a mayor or a public official in this country that’s more strongly pro immigrant than I am. Including disagreeing with President Clinton when he signed an anti-immigration legislation about two or three years ago.”’

See Rudy for yourself on YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM


15 posted on 01/15/2008 9:56:05 PM PST by Sun (Duncan Hunter: pro-God/life/borders, understands Red China threat, NRA A+rating! www.gohunter08.com)
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To: advance_copy
And Giuliani only got 3% tonight in Michigan. He finished behind Ron Paul.

Yea, so did Fred, with 4%. Pathetic.

16 posted on 01/15/2008 9:58:56 PM PST by Huck (Ok, I'll sneak in a few posts here and there and try to stay out of trouble.)
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To: patriciamary

I doubt Rush wants Rudy to win.

Rudy causes huge heartburn to prolifers. In some ways, he’s a flawed candidate just like Huckabee is, just like McCain is. They have some good positions, but they also have things that just go too far against what the Reagan coalition stands for.

We can keep the coalition together, but only if we stick to either Romney or Thompson. Rudy, McCain and Huckabee are too much at odds with the party on key issues.


17 posted on 01/15/2008 10:06:48 PM PST by WOSG (Proamnesty-antiBushtaxcuts-proCO2caps-CFR-RINO John McCain delenda est!)
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To: advance_copy

Everyone kept saying he was the only one who could beat Hillary - maybe he should have run as a Democrat.


18 posted on 01/15/2008 10:16:16 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: WOSG

Assuming, arguendo, Rudy is the nominee, the question becomes do the moderate Republicans and conservative Democrats he attracts at the margin outweigh the Conservative Republicans he blows away? I do not know the answer to that now, but that’s the problem with Rudy.


19 posted on 01/15/2008 10:47:57 PM PST by Wally_Kalbacken (Seldom right but never in doubt)
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To: patriciamary

So we have to nominate the most non-conservative candidate in the race to save the conservative movement.

Yea, that’s the ticket!


20 posted on 01/15/2008 10:53:19 PM PST by SoConPubbie
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To: yellowhammer

Let’s be fair...I don’t think I’ve seen anyone who flopped quite so badly as Ryan Leaf. ;)


21 posted on 01/15/2008 10:58:57 PM PST by CaspersGh0sts
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To: All
I thought that another primary in which Rudy is a nonentity would hurt him. But, in checking Intrade, Rudy had a big day. His chances of winning Florida went way up, presently 38.9%, what with Romney knocking McCain down a few pegs.

No Graph Available!

22 posted on 01/15/2008 11:00:55 PM PST by Plutarch
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To: stockstrader
...Rudy's 'Howard Deanesque' total collapse in the national polls?? (no scream even required)

Maybe he can dress up like a girl and cry like Hitlery did...

23 posted on 01/16/2008 1:57:16 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: WOSG
Rudy causes huge heartburn to prolifers.

You are forgetting about the Second Amendment, which I think is even bigger...

24 posted on 01/16/2008 2:00:35 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Rudy, McCain and Huckabee are our ‘Three RINOs of the Apocalypse’...
25 posted on 01/16/2008 2:14:09 AM PST by johnny7 ("But that one on the far left... he had crazy eyes")
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To: advance_copy
Giuliani and Paul should BOTH give it up.

They both have no committed GOP delegates for Minnesota this summer, and those two are also trailing Romney, Huckabee, McCain, Thompson and Hunter in that order, as of this morning.

26 posted on 01/16/2008 2:27:36 AM PST by AmericanInTokyo (Why should RINOs ask for my vote in November when they & MSM screwed True Conservatives?)
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To: patriciamary
Conservative are signing their own death certificate,Rush is right,the conservative movement will die.

Already dead.

27 posted on 01/16/2008 2:41:31 AM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: advance_copy

Giuliani, who was joined in church by Katherine Harris

No wonder he is tanking...she is the kiss of death. Thank you Katherine!!! Why she would support Rudy is beyond me.


28 posted on 01/16/2008 2:57:32 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: stockstrader
I wonder what they even talk about over at WideAwakes

I dropped in lasr night, they had their own civil war last summer/fall, MadIvan is running it now, and just endorsed John McCain. Not much support for Rudy, none for Huck, naturally, Fred has some and Romney has more.

29 posted on 01/16/2008 3:00:35 AM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (Mike Huckabee: If Gomer Pyle and Hugo Chavez had a love child this is who it would be.)
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To: SoConPubbie
So we have to nominate the most non-conservative candidate in the race to save the conservative movement.

Unaccountably, many seem to think that if we could just get the Democrats to vote Republican, everything would be peaches and cream for the Republican party.

30 posted on 01/16/2008 3:05:23 AM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: advance_copy
How many of the other candidates have had over a thousand people show up to their events?

Rudys plan from the beginning was to wait for Florida, if it works remains to be seen, but as of the latest polls he is still at least tied for first there.

Mitt winning in Michigan tonight was the best news Rudy has had in a couple of weeks. This race is still wide open, and McCain going down a few notches helps Rudy more than anyone else.

No one knows what will happen before Super Tuesday, but this is playing out exactly like Rudy said it would when he planned his big state "Super Duper Tuesday" strategy. I don't think he planned on his numbers tanking quite as much as they have, but as Fred supporters like to point out, a candidate can go from single digits in South Carolina, to a possible win in a week, anything is possible.

31 posted on 01/16/2008 3:22:41 AM PST by codercpc
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To: Gondring

That is from the Boston Globe.

Hardly a credible source.


32 posted on 01/16/2008 3:28:44 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: advance_copy
I wonder how the Giuliani Network[Fox News] is gonna handle this and his spokesman Hannity.
33 posted on 01/16/2008 3:40:04 AM PST by BGHater ('A Nation's best defense is an educated citizenry'-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: advance_copy

I live in Florida and There is NO WAY i’d vot for Rudy. He supports:
The homosexual agenda
Amnesty
big govt
gun control
abortion
govt paid for abortion
Rudy is a DAMN RINO and he can forget it.


34 posted on 01/16/2008 4:00:24 AM PST by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Lucius Cornelius Sulla

Wow, thanks. Given how hardcore they (especially MadIvan) all were on Rudy—that surprises me.


35 posted on 01/16/2008 5:04:54 AM PST by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will UNITE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: stockstrader
Not that long ago McCain was written off as done. I am not counting Rudy out - - yet.
36 posted on 01/16/2008 5:07:24 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Obama - all smoke not even a mirror.)
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To: patriciamary
The only difference between Hillary and Rudy is that Rudy has better legs. Why on earth would ANY conservative support him? Do you have conservative and Republican mixed up?
37 posted on 01/16/2008 5:09:46 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Obama - all smoke not even a mirror.)
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To: BGHater
I think we are getting through to Vannity. He has laid down some on the Rudy stuff and FNS had Fred on this morning - for too short of time but they had him on.
38 posted on 01/16/2008 5:13:03 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Obama - all smoke not even a mirror.)
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To: mad_as_he$$

I agree. Actually—as long as CHAOS prevails (as it sadly does now in the Party)—it plays perfectly for Giuliani. Chaos is Rudy’s best friend.


39 posted on 01/16/2008 5:58:17 AM PST by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will UNITE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: patriciamary
I will say I told you so when republicans lose badly in November because they don’t nominate Rudy,Conservative are signing their own death certificate,Rush is right,the conservative movement will die.

That's one of the more ridiculous statements I've ever seen on here.

Let's see here,,,hmmm,,,the Republican Party has been moving to the 'left' for years now,,,,so to help the conservative cause--we need to nominate someone guaranteed to ACCELERATE THAT MOVEMENT TO THE LEFT even further???

Yarite. (rolling eyes)

40 posted on 01/16/2008 6:23:14 AM PST by stockstrader (We need a conservative who will UNITE the Party, not a liberal who will DEMORALIZE it!)
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To: patriciamary
Nominating a sleazy person of questionable judgement (Rudy 911) would be a big mistake.

If all you care about is winning, you would be better off backing McCain. America is not about to elect the first non-Christian President since Jefferson who keeps the company of Grant. Rudy is not a good choice, whether you care about winning or care about principles.

41 posted on 01/16/2008 8:35:09 AM PST by Clemenza (Ronald Reagan was a "Free Traitor", Like Me ;-))
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To: advance_copy
And Giuliani only got 3% tonight in Michigan. He finished behind Ron Paul.

He also lost to Ron Paul in Iowa.

Rudy barely edged out Paul in the "Live free or die" state.

42 posted on 01/16/2008 8:36:58 AM PST by NeoCaveman (It's a Texas Hold Em Primary and Fred is "All In" in South Carolina)
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To: All
Giuliani got rattled and was chased away from a Florida campaign stop when pro-lifers showed up at his speaking event. Giulini ran the other way rather than face pro-lifers---the campaign speech was cancelled.

Rooty's private life epitomizes Planned Parenthood's condomized Fully Fornicating society (Giuliani donated to PPhood; NARAL donated to Mayor Rudy's campaign then honored Rooty's exhaustive efforts to advance abortion rights.)

Unzipped Rudy is something else. Mayor Rudy had no qualms causing the public humiliation of his second wife by dumping her at a news conference without even telling her. He tried to dump his two young kids out in the streets---saying he was dividing the Mayoral mansion in two---to move in his mistress. Married Rudy was also porking his mistress on the public dime and hiding the theft of public services in obscure city agencies, then lying about it to voters.

Giuliani's messy personal life is a big turnoff to women voters. It makes wives and moms around the country skeptical of putting him in the White House. If Rooty can't control his zipper, how can he control the country?

One news poll found 50% of women overall - and 48% of GOP women - are less likely to vote for Giuliani because he publicly humiliated and dumped his second wife by calling a 2000 press conference without telling her first.

Lots of women say Giuliani's assigning seven tax-funded bodyguards/drivers to his girlfriend while his wife was still NYC's First Lady was EVEN WORSE than Rudy's public humiliation of the mother of his children. "Rotten" is a word that came up again and again when women refer to Rudy.

Rooty's "family values" are nonexistent----an astounding 88% of those polled had a problem with Rooty not attending his own son's graduation.

43 posted on 01/16/2008 10:55:30 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: taxesareforever
Back to Nu Yerk Rudi.

New York doesn't want him.

He's been badmouthing New York for months on the stump, figuring that NY's a safe vote and other states want to hear the badmouthing.

How's that working for you, Rudy? You've only shown that you have no loyalty at all. Not to your wives, not to your city, not even to your team (no real Yankee fan can ever root for the Sox, no matter how many votes you think they'll give you).

The irony is that former New Yorkers living in Florida, the very constituency he's counting on, love their former home. There's a reason that the New York papers are sold there, after all. They obviously don't take kindly to his besmirching their city, either.

44 posted on 01/16/2008 10:56:13 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: advance_copy

Rudy’s whole schtick of “vote for me and I’ll protect you from the terrorists” has been decrepit for a while. His campaign has money problems and I hope a loss in Florida will finish him off.


45 posted on 01/16/2008 11:01:40 AM PST by LiveFree99
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To: All
NBC's Tim Russert said Giuliani's tanking was due to:

(1) Bernie Kerik's legal problems (Kerik is Rudy's former driver, bodyguard, police Commissioner, business partner, failed Homeland nominee, and admitted felon (in that order),

(2) Rooty's porking his mistress on the public dime, and hiding the theft of public services in obscure city agencies, and,

(3) Rooty's secrecy about his business dealings (a bonanza for global Rudy if Giuliani ever got his hands on the federal budget).

GIULIANI CONTRACT CONDITIONS: Use of Mr. Giuliani's Name: the "trade names and trademarks 'Rudolph Giuliani,' or 'Giuliani Partners LLC"..... shall not be used . . . without prior written consent. Doing anything that "tarnishes, degrades, disparages or reflects adversely on the Giuliani name" will be grounds for terminating the contract.

Doesn't specify conditions if Giuliani tarnishes or degrades his own name. (/sarc)

46 posted on 01/16/2008 11:02:42 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: LiveFree99
Rudy’s whole schtick of “vote for me and I’ll protect you from the terrorists” has been decrepit for a while.

Rooty's built his campaign around the only skill he has---cleaning up after bombings. Robot Rooty is programmed for problems---to repeat 9/11 over and over. It's the only thing he's campaigned on.

Rooty's the chaos candidate---he needs chaos to thrive. Reflexively 9/11 ---he manages to sneak 9/11 into every sentence he utters. As the shortest candidate, and the only lisper, 9/11 gave him the opportunity to fulfill a deep psychological need----to strut around pretending he's somebody.

Can voters honestly say Giuliani will be a peacemaker? Giuliani seems the least likely of all the candidates to be a level-headed negotiator to calm world tensions. One can only ponder how many US allies will be alienated (and enemies inflamed) by this egomaniac's compulsion to strut on the global stage.

Losing NH, Iowa and coming in last in Mich musta been good news for Giuliani's strange, wacko strategy of hiding out in the dugout until the final innings.......then strolling in to hit 22 home runs on Super Tuesday (snicker).

47 posted on 01/16/2008 11:09:55 AM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: Liz

Rudy’s “strategery” appears to have been flawed. He used 9/11 to vault himself into the first tier of candidates but then failed to go beyond that. He did talk a little about tax cuts but he always did return to 9/11. The revelations last month about some of his sleaze really gut shot him and marked the beginning of his political demise.


48 posted on 01/16/2008 11:24:46 AM PST by LiveFree99
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To: LiveFree99
The revelations last month about some of his sleaze really gut shot him and marked the beginning of his political demise.

No question----married Rudy porking his mistress on the public dime and hiding the theft of public services in obscure city agencies did not go over well with voters.

Women say Giuliani's assigning 7 tax-funded NYPD bodyguards/drivers to his girlfriend while his wife was still NYC's First Lady was EVEN WORSE than Rudy's calling a press conference to publicly humiliate the mother of his children by announcing their separation WITHOUT EVEN BOTHERING TO TELL HIS WIFE BEFOREHAND.

Vindictive Giuliani then cut his wife's security detail thus endangering the mother of his childred.

Giuliani's savagery against his family knew no bounds. He then rubbed his family's nose in it, by increasing tax-paid security for his mistress....even though the bimbo had no official duties (unless one calls getting Rudy sexually blized an "official" act.) .

49 posted on 01/16/2008 12:04:14 PM PST by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: advance_copy

Rudy’s probably praying for another 9/11 between now and Florida.


50 posted on 01/16/2008 12:13:38 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture™)
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