Methodist Agency Head Winker Wants Divestment of Caterpillar

Christian News Wire, Peoria Journal Star, IRD Renew et al. ^ | 10 Jan 2008 | Christian News Wire

[tabsternager]

Oh, please. Israel withdrew from Gaza, or didn’t you know that?

[tabsternager]

“All the houses that have been bulldozed by Israel were owned by people who were harboring terrorists.”

No doubt some have been. But it’s also a pretty convenient excuse to expand the settlements, wouldn’t you say?

I’ve posted this before, but maybe you haven’t see it (Stephen Sizer’s interview of the prinicapl of Bethlehem Bible College, 1999):

“Bishara Awad : Bethlehem Bible College
I also visited an old friend, Bishara Awad, the Principal of Bethlehem Bible College. Bishara is a father figure, gracious, patient, yet this time, when we met, he was clearly distressed. The story he shared typifies the reasons why peace is so elusive and why many Palestinians are sceptical of ever seeing the Oslo agreement implemented. ‘Tony is a student of the College. He loves the Lord. He is a Christian. All his family are Christians. The family own a piece of land on the outskirts of Bethlehem which they bought in 1924. One day the family went to work on their land and found a bulldozer opening up a new road into their land near the edge of the Neve Daniel settlement. When they tried to stop the bulldozer, the Israeli settlers took Tony’s brother to the police station. He was not released until he signed a document promising never to go back to his land again. This has naturally been very disturbing for the family. It’s not strange for us because it is happening all the time. But this is something near to our hearts and to our students. It happened just two weeks ago. All we could do as a College is have a prayer right on the land. We prayed for peace, for justice. We prayed for the settlers, that the Lord would give them a soft heart, that they would not take someone else’s land.’”

[safisoft]

Supporting Israel’s right to exist and protect its citizens is one thing. But supporting demolishment of homes that belong to people because they’re not Jewish is quite another.

You are wrong on two fronts. First, you are wrong in a very practical way. I wonder why you are even on FreeRepublic when you continue to spout your anti-Jewish-pro-terrorist drivel. There is no place called "Palestine" and there is no ethnicity called "Palestinian." The fight for a homeland of these people you refer to is simply a sick joke foisted on the world by the Arab nations that hate these people almost as much as they hate the Jewish people.

But most seriously, you are wrong biblically. Your theology is riddled with what some might see as benign anti-Semitism. I would not say it is benign. As a student of church history, I know that your theology has its origins in the Second Century and from the start was rabidly anti-Semitic. All throughout the church's sad history it remained such. When faced with a choice even John Calvin decided he hated Jews more than Roman Catholics.

You have chosen poorly. Repent. It is your only hope. How can you imagine that when Jesus spoke of giving food, drink, clothing, and compassion to "My brothers," He was speaking of anyone other than the Jewish people? You have shunned the promises... and exchanged them for a curse.

[tabsternager]

The Pharisees who didn’t believe in Christ were Jewish — did Christ call them His brothers? Of course not. The Bible is very clear that it is circumcism of the heart, not the flesh, that makes one a Jew and Christ’s brother:

Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

Luke 8:21: He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”

[Alouette]

I’ve posted this before, but maybe you haven’t see it (Stephen Sizer’s interview of the prinicapl of Bethlehem Bible College, 1999):

You're so determined to cut and paste your stupid propaganda everywhere, you don't even realize that Bethlehem was given away to the Palestinians as part of the Oslo Accords. While Israel was "occupying" Bethlehem, the population was over 80% Christian. Now that those horrible Zionists are gone, Bethlehem is 80% Moslem.

Who are the land thieves now?

[tabsternager]

Propaganda? I guess the 2005 committee report by Congressman Henry Hyde, when he chaired the International Relations Committee, was “propaganda” too?

Novak article, 2005:
“Hyde’s committee report employs stronger language than the congressman had used previously. It calls for insistence that Israel ‘honor its pledge to stop settlement expansion’ and suggests the security barrier is ‘a pretext for annexing territory.’”

“The report rejects the widespread impression that the Olmert regime really is abandoning the West Bank and disbanding the settlements.

“The report says ‘the Bethlehem area is home to over 20 Israeli settlements and there are plans to build more. The settlements in the barrier completely encircle the Christian triangle of Bethlehem, Beit Jala and Beit Sahour (Shepherds’ Field).’”
(end of quote)

Once Henry Hyde looked into the facts, he criticized the Israeli government. But facts don’t seem to matter to some people because they believe what they want to believe to suit their religious or political agenda.

[safisoft]

Sorry bub. You have outed yourself as a complete anti-Semite. I feel sorry for you. You have no idea what "Christ" would call the "Pharisees."

Your only hope is to repent.

[tabsternager]

Oh, yes, the “A” word. That figures.

When you can’t refute facts or Scripture, then resort to name calling. Very clever.

[safisoft]

When you can’t refute facts or Scripture, then resort to name calling. Very clever.

What scripture? You are blabbing about some "first hand accounts" which are clearly anti-Semitic. You didn't comment on the recent rocket attack on Sderot, did you, an inequality which screams anti-Semitism.

BTW, for every "scripture" you quote, you ignore 10.

[tabsternager]

“BTW, for every ‘scripture’ you quote, you ignore 10.”

Scripture never contradicts Scripture. Therefore, Christian Zionism is unbiblical. Even worse, it’s a form of idol worship since it exalts the state of Israel over all other nations.

Abraham is the “father of many nations,” not just one. The Jews of the OT were God’s chosen people because it was through them that people of many nations believed in the one true God and through them Christ came to save many. Since God does not show favoritism, neither should we.

Romans 9-11 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. FOR GOD DOES NOT SHOW FAVORITISM.

[tabsternager]

“BTW, for every ‘scripture’ you quote, you ignore 10.”

Scripture never contradicts Scripture. Therefore, Christian Zionism is unbiblical. Even worse, it’s a form of idol worship since it exalts the state of Israel over all other nations.

Abraham is the “father of many nations,” not just one. The Jews of the OT were God’s chosen people because it was through them that people of many nations believed in the one true God and through them Christ came to save many. Since God does not show favoritism, neither should we.

Romans 9-11 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. FOR GOD DOES NOT SHOW FAVORITISM.

[safisoft]

Scripture never contradicts Scripture.

Agreed. Which means you must explain a lot away.

The word of the L-RD came to Jeremiah: "This is what the L-RD says: 'If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time, then my covenant with David my servant—and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me—can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne. I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.' " The word of the L-RD came to Jeremiah: -"Have you not noticed that these people are saying, 'The L-RD has rejected the two kingdoms he chose'? (this is talking about you, tabsternager) So they despise my people and no longer regard them as a nation.

This is what the L-RD says: 'If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed laws of heaven and earth, then I will reject the descendants of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his sons to rule over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. For I will restore their fortunes and have compassion on them.' " Jeremiah 33:19-25

Why not just go aheard and cut out the front 3/4 of your Bible. You don't use it in your twisted idolatry.

[tabsternager]

On the contrary, it is Christian Zionists who must either discount or twist many parts of the Bible in order to suit their belief.

Scripture is clear that the true descendants of David are those who believe. Ruth, a Moabite, was considered one of Abraham’s descendants. Why? Because of her faith:

Romans 2: No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.

Galatians 3:29: If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

BTW, the promise is not about inheriting a strip of land in the Middle East — the land in the OT was a type and shadow. The promise is inheritance of the true Promised Land, by faith alone.

Heb. 11:9-10 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.