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Pro-Abortion Religious Leader Bemoans Lack of Clergy Backing Roe v. Wade
Life News ^ | 1/16/08 | Steven Ertelt

Posted on 01/16/2008 4:36:46 PM PST by wagglebee


Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- With the thirty-fifth anniversary of the infamous Roe v. Wade Supreme Court case coming next week, the head of a pro-abortion group for religious groups and leaders is bemoaning the fact that not enough clergy are promoting abortion.

However, the organization will be hard-pressed to find converts from among the Catholic and Protestant denominations that strongly oppose abortion.

Reverend Carlton Veazey, the head of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, says he's worried that, on this anniversary of Roe, "our country is on the brink of abandoning its commitment that abortion will be" available.

Veazey, a pastor of a Baptist church in Washington, D.C., is worried that the Supreme Court's upholding the national ban on partial-birth abortions and state personhood initiatives and abortion bans are "sounding the death knell for the landmark constitutional decision."

"At this point of crisis, compassionate clergy leadership is needed to awaken the silent majority of Americans who are pro-choice," he says in a statement LifeNews.com obtained.

"They know there is no one right or wrong decision about abortion," Veazey adds, saying "They deserve to know that the majority of their religious communities support abortion being legal and available to all women."

However, polls of religious Americans paint a very different picture.

However, an April 2005 Gallup survey found a strong majority of Catholics believe the Catholic Church should retain its view against abortion.

Approximately 59 percent of those polled favor the church's pro-life stance while just 37 percent of respondents opposed it. Catholics who attend church on a weekly basis were more likely to back the church's pro-life position, by a 69 to 29 percent margin.


An August 2007 Pre Research poll also found 64 percent of Americans who want abortions banned or restricted.

Just 31 percent of the public agrees with Veazey that abortion to be generally available and not have more restrictions placed on it.

Evangelicals, black evangelicals and Catholics were more likely to be pro-life than members of mainline Protestant churches and non-Christians, the survey found.

Finally, an October 2007 CBS News survey found 79 percent take one of the three pro-life stances with 35 percent taking the life of the mother position and the same percentage taking the rape, incest and life of the mother position. Nine percent opposed all abortions.

Among self-described evangelical voters, just 17 percent supported abortion.

Despite the polling data, Veazey promised that "hundreds of clergy and religious leaders in the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice" will continue "speaking out to protect" the so-called right to abortion.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; christianity; dncfalseprophets; moralabsolutes; proaborts; prolife; religiousleft
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"They know there is no one right or wrong decision about abortion," Veazey adds, saying "They deserve to know that the majority of their religious communities support abortion being legal and available to all women."

What a demented monster!

1 posted on 01/16/2008 4:36:50 PM PST by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 01/16/2008 4:37:22 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 230FMJ; 49th; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; ..
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

FreeRepublic moral absolutes keyword search
[ Add keyword moral absolutes to flag FR articles to this ping list ]


3 posted on 01/16/2008 4:37:44 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Reverend Carlton Veazey, the head of the Religious SATANIC Coalition for Reproductive Choice ... there now, more accurate.
4 posted on 01/16/2008 4:40:23 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: wagglebee

Some good news from the pro-infanticide crowd. Remind me to shed some crocodile tears for their inability to find quislings.

I found the statistics to be heartening. Looks like the power of compounding is working it’s magic. It’ll take another 10-20 years, but infanticide for convenience’s sake will eventually go away in the U.S. Not because of anything that happens in the political sphere of course, but because women will stop allowing their unborn children to be eliminated.


5 posted on 01/16/2008 4:47:54 PM PST by RKBA Democrat (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner!)
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To: wagglebee
They know there is no one right or wrong decision about abortion.

Then, there is no right or wrong decision about anything! How can they claim to be religious or moral leaders when they say such things? What kind of moral authority can they claim? These types of religious leaders are only concerned with "social justice", and their own narrow interpretation of that.

6 posted on 01/16/2008 4:49:01 PM PST by PatrickF4 ("The greatest dangers to liberty lurk...with men of zeal, well meaning, but without understanding.")
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To: wagglebee
"Veazey, a pastor of a Baptist church..."

I guess anybody can come along and call themselves a "Baptist" church. I wonder what kind of a "Baptist" this turkey is.

7 posted on 01/16/2008 4:49:06 PM PST by Past Your Eyes (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.)
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To: wagglebee
Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

This would suggest that 100% of Catholics oppose abortion. I guess those who have excommunicated themselves still keep showing up and pretending they are Catholics.

8 posted on 01/16/2008 4:50:08 PM PST by ALPAPilot
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To: NYer; Coleus; narses; Salvation; Pyro7480; sionnsar; Huber; TonyRo76; tutstar; WKB; ...

General Christianity Ping


9 posted on 01/16/2008 4:54:13 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

Oh yes how shocking that ministers are not in favor of irresponsible sexual behavior or killing unborn children when that behavior leads to pregnancy. How uncompassionate of them to not condone sin and selfishness and irresponsiblity. /s


10 posted on 01/16/2008 4:56:13 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: wagglebee

He is a Baptist Minister in Washington DC, if anyone should be concerned with the well being of his flock, it should be Veazy(like Weezy)...

Instead, he is championing the death of infant life?

My goodness, what is the clergy coming too?


11 posted on 01/16/2008 4:59:47 PM PST by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Isaiah 3.3)
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To: wagglebee
I wonder if Veazey's grandfather bemoaned the closing of the last concentration camp, or if Veazey's great-great-great grandfather bemoaned the Civil War ending slavery.

I mean 3/5th of a person isn't a person and neither is someone less than human, right Veazey?

12 posted on 01/16/2008 5:06:16 PM PST by Tanniker Smith (Geek Squad -- if you're desperate and don't need a PC for over a month, we're here for you.)
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To: wagglebee
"They know there is no one right or wrong decision about abortion," Veazey adds, saying "They deserve to know that the majority of their religious communities support abortion being legal and available to all women."

No one right or wrong decision on abortion? I don't have wonder why some Americans just despise so-called religious leaders. It is one thing to be a clergyman in favor of the right to abortion, but Veazey shirks all pretense of politeness and just says "abortion."

The biblical case for abortion rights is almost as strong as the Jewish case for self-internment.
13 posted on 01/16/2008 5:10:25 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: padre35
My goodness, what is the clergy coming too [sic?

The clergy in Aldous Huxley's Ape and Essence.
14 posted on 01/16/2008 5:15:12 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: Past Your Eyes
I guess anybody can come along and call themselves a "Baptist" church. I wonder what kind of a "Baptist" this turkey is.

Perhaps a "Zen Baptist." I've heard that label quite a bit lately, as though there's really no conflict between the fundamental philosophical presuppositions of traditional Anabaptists and/or English Baptists and Zen Buddhism.

Maybe a "Roe Baptist." It's a tough hoe to Roe, but I'm sure some Marxist vector might popularize the term some time in the near future. Have you ever heard the phrase "gay Baptist preacher?" Wait a few years.
15 posted on 01/16/2008 5:23:39 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: Das Outsider

Nope, haven’t heard that one yet. As a Baptist, I hope I never do but I certainly will not be surprised when I do.


16 posted on 01/16/2008 5:31:09 PM PST by Past Your Eyes (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.)
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To: Past Your Eyes
Nope, haven’t heard that one yet. As a Baptist, I hope I never do but I certainly will not be surprised when I do.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. My saying such is a sad reflection on the state of Christianity in general. How did we let this happen? Answer: We tried to be "nice," instead of cleaving to the Word of God and standing steadfast by it.
17 posted on 01/16/2008 5:35:48 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: wagglebee

As a former (recovering) member of the clergy, this doesn’t surprise me at all.

You see, to be a pastor, you must be elected by the congregation, and those votes are taken by paper ballot as well as paper money (check). Quite frankly, you p*ss off the wrong person, and you’re packing up the parsonage.

So, the “successful” pastors are the ones that keep the peace. The last thing that 99% of their congregations want is their pastor to take a stand that puts them on the front page of the newspaper, where they are somehow made to feel “unsophisticated” or “intolerant”.

In time, those “successful” clergy are the ones who are promoted to positions of supervisory power — bishops, moderators, etc.

I once saw a pastor whose parishioner had been accused of ritual molestation of dozens of kids (Grass Lake, MI). His pastor shunned the guy, not even offering the comfort that one might give to a convicted man on death row. The pastor was horrified to be with the guy, and standing up for his innocence (was found innocent later) was out of the question.

MLKing bemoaned the fact that the clergy of his day might’ve talked a good game, but were all missing when it came time to take action. Many didn’t even talk a good game, instead writing King while in jail asking him to avoid confrontation instead of doing his marches.

Things haven’t changed much today.


18 posted on 01/16/2008 6:07:38 PM PST by TWohlford
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To: RKBA Democrat; wagglebee
I found the statistics to be heartening.

Too bad Lifenews.com can't even cite their own stories correctly!

They say...

An August 2007 Pre Research poll also found 64 percent of Americans who want abortions banned or restricted.
And they link to their own story... of a Pew Research poll that was conducted in August 2006. And most telling of all is that they totally made up the 64 percent number--it isn't in there.

For example:

Abortion continues to split the country nearly down the middle. But there is consensus in one key area: two out of three Americans (66%) support finding "a middle ground" when it comes to abortion. Only three-in-ten (29%), by contrast, believe "there's no room for compromise when it comes to abortion laws." This desire to find common ground extends broadly across the political and ideological spectrum.
and
Public opinion about the legality of abortion is largely unchanged from previous polling. While about one-in-three (31%) prefer for abortion to be generally available to those who want it and one-in-ten (11%) take the opposite position that abortion should not be permitted at all, most Americans fall in between, preferring what might be described as a "legal but rare" stance. One-in-five (20%) say that abortion should be available but under stricter limits than it is now, while about one-in-three (35%) say that abortion should be illegal except in cases of rape, incest or to save the woman's life.
As for the CBS News poll claim...
...79 percent take one of the three pro-life stances...
Okay, first of all, what they are citing in the poll itself was a number for WHITE EVANGELICALS (yet LifeNews implies that it's either everyone polled, or else [from their previous paragraph] it's "Evangelicals, black evangelicals and Catholics.") I don't know many black evangelicals who consider themselves white evangelicals. Perhaps some Catholics do.

And secondly, they say: "one of the three pro-life stances," so they are saying that "abortion is okay in the case of rape" is a "pro-life" stance. Interesting. Only 9 percent of White Evangelicals (4 percent in general) said abortion should be banned entirely, though 35 percent of White Evangelicals said it would be okay only to save a woman's life.

Bottom line: a lot of sloppy game-playing with the numbers, and lumping "some restriction" in as "pro-life"

19 posted on 01/16/2008 6:32:32 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: wagglebee

Abortion kills people!


20 posted on 01/16/2008 7:34:53 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: wagglebee

The reason so many clergymen don’t back Roe vs. Wade is because they can’t do so without undermining their credibility.


21 posted on 01/16/2008 7:50:50 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (You can't be serious about national security unless you're serious about border security)
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To: Past Your Eyes
I wonder what kind of a "Baptist" this turkey is.

I think he is American Baptist - they are very liberal, and very much in the liberal wing of the Church. This certainly would be consistent with policies of the National leadership...although not necessarily of the local churches.

22 posted on 01/16/2008 10:13:31 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Past Your Eyes

Sorry - just found out he is National Baptist Convention USA


23 posted on 01/16/2008 10:18:47 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: wagglebee

Well there would have been more clergy supporting abortion now.....

but, they were aborted.


24 posted on 01/16/2008 10:26:50 PM PST by exit82 (How do you handle Hillary? You Huma her.)
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To: LiteKeeper

My church is affiliated with the ABC. I’m glad this guy isn’t one of us. But I’m not real proud of the ABC, either. About the best thing to be said about the ABC is that it ain’t the UCC.


25 posted on 01/17/2008 3:52:29 AM PST by Past Your Eyes (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.)
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To: wagglebee
Veazey, a pastor of a Baptist church in Washington, D.C., is worried that the Supreme Court's upholding the national ban on partial-birth abortions and state personhood initiatives and abortion bans are "sounding the death knell for the landmark constitutional decision."

I thought I'd read that this guy was from some kind of fringe religion...surprised to see that he is from a Baptist church, and a pastor even....favoring infanticide? Shocking.

26 posted on 01/17/2008 3:59:23 AM PST by nicmarlo (I hereby declare my support for Duncan Hunter. 1/10/08; late to the party, but I have arrived!)
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To: wagglebee
Pinged from Terri Dailies

8mm


27 posted on 01/17/2008 4:25:44 AM PST by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Past Your Eyes; Das Outsider
If you Google "Gay Baptist,", you get 2,300+ results, including several which feature directories which you can use to locate Gay Baptist churches in your area.

Evidently you have little experience with the so-called Gay Christian movement. They're quite convinced that they are the true Christians and that "the Bible tells them so". Yeah, follow those links and read along. If you're like me, you'll be amazed and appalled.

28 posted on 01/17/2008 6:59:23 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Sorry: Tag-line presently at the dry cleaners. Please find suitable bumper-sticker instead.)
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To: Past Your Eyes
I was ordained by the Southwestern area of ABC in 1979. I was subsequently endorsed for Active Duty as a chaplain in 1985.

Found out recently that my entire area departed the ABC two years ago...lock, stock, and barrel!

29 posted on 01/17/2008 1:56:01 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Evidently you have little experience with the so-called Gay Christian movement. They're quite convinced that they are the true Christians and that "the Bible tells them so". Yeah, follow those links and read along. If you're like me, you'll be amazed and appalled.

I'm familiar with the oxymoronic movement. The main lines of argumentation always betray a rather low view of Scripture. I've heard, "Oh, that was just Paul's opinion," and the like more times than I can count.
30 posted on 01/17/2008 3:33:28 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: LiteKeeper

Nothing would please me more than for our church to get out of the two denominations that we are with. (The other one is the UCC, most unfortunately.) I’m afraid the only way to make that happen would be to shut it down and I’m not willing to do that, at least not yet.
I see you were FA. I spent 13 years in a Firing Battery in the National Guard. Five of those years were on active duty. I mostly enjoyed it. Not the active part as much as the reserve component time. Prior to that I had been in the Marine Corps.


31 posted on 01/17/2008 3:55:07 PM PST by Past Your Eyes (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.)
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To: Past Your Eyes

I was in the FA for 19 years; then I was an Active Duty chaplain for 10 years. Retired in Sep95. Loved it...even the 19 months in Viet Nam (well, maybe I didn’t love that period...but I felt like I was doing something)


32 posted on 01/17/2008 3:57:07 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: LiteKeeper

Never had the pleasure of going there. I got drafted into the Marine Corps in ‘69 (served ‘70 to ‘72) and only did what I was told, which didn’t happen to involve WESTPAC service.
“;^)
Well, I suppose technically I got drafted in ‘69 but it wasn’t until ‘70 that I went in and that was when the Marine Corps decided they had to have me. OOOrah.


33 posted on 01/17/2008 4:28:28 PM PST by Past Your Eyes (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.)
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To: Das Outsider
The "Gay Christian" movement has gotten a lot more sophisticated than saying "Oh, that was just Paul's opinion."

I do wish that somebody would go to the links I've posted,and take this seriously, because souls and whole societies are very much at risk because of the "new" "gay" "Biblical" "scholarship" (yes, quotes around each word.) It is straight-from-the-seminaries slick, and highly misleading to people who may actually be trying to discern God's purposes and do the right thing.

Their basic Scriptural claim is that all of the supposed condemnations of homosexuality in the Old and New Testaments referred to "straight" people engaging in same-sex relations for sinful lustful reasons, and not to "naturally-gay" people who are honorably in love-and-marriage type relationships.

Genesis: Sodom: it said "all the men in the town." Clearly, most would have been straight. And they wanted to rape Lot's visitors. Clearly, rape is wrong. Has nothing to do with people who are "naturally gay" involved in loving sexual relations.

Deuteronomy and Leviticus: primitive Hebrew tribal rules which both Jesus and Paul said we New Testament people don't have to follow. It includes prohibitions against round haircuts, tattoos, working on the Sabbath, wearing garments of mixed fabrics, eating pork or shellfish, eating non-kosher foods; also requires that non-virgin brides and all adulterers should be stoned to death.

ROMANS 1:26-27 -- NATURAL AND UNNATURAL -- This is explicitly about men giving up natural relations with women, and lying with men. Does not refer to men who are "naturally" gay who never had relations with women, and therefore never gave them up. Refers to people who "refused to acknowledge and worship God," "and for this reason were abandoned by God into sexual depravity." Therefore does not refer to Gay Christians who have never refused to worship and acknowledge God, and who are not involved in sexual depravity, but rather, are involved in relationships equivalent to marriage.

And here's the trump: 1 CORINTHIANS 6:9 AND 1 TIMOTHY 1:10 condemning "MALOKOIS" AND "ARSENOKOITAI" (Greek words usually translated "effeminates" and "male prostitutes."); But the "Gay Christians" say those words refer only to ritual prostitutes in pagan temples. Again,they claim that there is no reference to just-plain homosexuals per se.

It tires me to write all of this, because I don't accept the validity of any of these arguments. I'm just trying (doggedly) to illustrate the fact that they have engaged linguists and professors and ministers and so forth to develop arguments based on plausible Scripture scholarship and the "correction" of supposed "mis-translations." But I don't see anybody addressing this point-for-point.

And thus many are being misled, to their great misfortune in this life and the next.

And they think they have a HIGH view of Scripture. Sad.

34 posted on 01/17/2008 5:03:50 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Jo Nuvark; Pelham
It tires me to write all of this, because I don't accept the validity of any of these arguments. I'm just trying (doggedly) to illustrate the fact that they have engaged linguists and professors and ministers and so forth to develop arguments based on plausible Scripture scholarship and the "correction" of supposed "mis-translations." But I don't see anybody addressing this point-for-point.

Forgive me if I was a little brief in my previous response. A good lawyer might argue in defense of homosexuality based on Scripture, due to "errors" in the Scriptures which somehow obscured an otherwise neutral position on same-sex relations, i.e., given that the old Torah civil laws are no longer applied, they were written from--or for--a certain perspective, etc. I am not a good lawyer, but I'm decent at dismantling the arguments from the so-called Gay Christian movement, just like social justice "Christians," just like pro-choice "Christians," and so on.

We can do it point-for-point, if you'd like. I'm not at all impressed by the radical homosexual movement's apparent sophistry, or "sophistication," if you'd prefer.
35 posted on 01/17/2008 5:18:37 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: Jo Nuvark

I may have to whip out the now-famous Nestle-Aland text! ;)


36 posted on 01/17/2008 5:40:18 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: Das Outsider
"I'm decent at dismantling the arguments from the so-called Gay Christian movement... point-for-point, if you'd like."

Thank you! I mean it! There are hundreds of Gay Christian sites. One I was looking at awhile ago had its arguments in compact form focused on the 6 or 8 major "clobber passages" (as they called them), 4 in the OT and 4 in the NT. Can't find that particular article right now, but this one has similar arguments. Can you take 'em apart, or show me where somebody else has done so? You'd be doing a grand service for us all.

37 posted on 01/17/2008 5:56:05 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Pelham; Jo Nuvark
Thank you! I mean it! There are hundreds of Gay Christian sites. One I was looking at awhile ago had its arguments in compact form focused on the 6 or 8 major "clobber passages" (as they called them), 4 in the OT and 4 in the NT.

The "clobber passages" aren't nearly as intimidating as one would think. Ever read the Skeptic's Annotated Bible?

Can you take 'em apart, or show me where somebody else has done so? You'd be doing a grand service for us all.

Perhaps with a little insight from my FRiends (if they're willing to take the challenge), to badly paraphrase Joe Cocker. Arguments from Masoretic Hebrew, Koine Greek, linguistics in general, philosophy, first-century Mediterranean culture, and ancient history shouldn't be too big of a problem. ;)
38 posted on 01/17/2008 6:11:40 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: wagglebee

Minister Beelzebub - skeletons in his closet.


39 posted on 01/17/2008 6:13:50 PM PST by eleni121 (+ En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Part I:

First of all, let's deal with your basic assessment of the arguments:

Their basic Scriptural claim is that all of the supposed condemnations of homosexuality in the Old and New Testaments referred to "straight" people engaging in same-sex relations for sinful lustful reasons, and not to "naturally-gay" people who are honorably in love-and-marriage type relationships.

I hate to bring attention to an act of equine abuse, but there is a dead horse that has been savagely beaten with regard to the NT. St. Paul says the following:

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

(Romans 1:24-28, NIV)

While it could be that St. Paul was referring to heterosexual men and women engaging in homosexual acts, there is not one single favorable mention with regard to homosexual acts in the Old Testament or in the Talmud. In other words, Hebrew scripture and tradition, when they did address the subject, did so in the negative. Provided that "abomination" does not mean "non-abomination", there is little left but an argument from silence. Argumentum ad silentio is a logical fallacy, regardless of who uses it...
40 posted on 01/17/2008 6:58:30 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
In addendum, Part I:

Is incest to be considered an equal non-abomination if Levite civil law is to be wholly disregarded? What does the Gay Christian movement have to say about this?
41 posted on 01/17/2008 7:04:29 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
In addendum, Part I, retread:

Is incest to be considered an equal non-abomination if Levite civil law is to be wholly disregarded? What does the Gay Christian movement have to say about this?

Just one last passing comment on the OT and homosexuality: Why is it that God made Adam and Eve, male and female, so that a man would cleave unto his wife and leave his family if he could just shack up with his "partner" in North Beach, SF? One could cite "loving relationships," but isn't the Torah loaded with examples of genuine loving--whether they be romantic or platonic--relationships? Do I need to list them?

According to the so-called Gay Christian movement, King David might have been queer.
42 posted on 01/17/2008 8:25:49 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: ALPAPilot

An abortion is not an excommunicable offense for the mother if it occurs naturally; miscarriages and stillborns occasionally occur despite following available medical advice or because of unforeseen injury or criminal violence against the mother.


43 posted on 01/17/2008 8:33:46 PM PST by dufekin (Name the leader of our enemy: Islamic Republic of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, terrorist dictator)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Part II—of what will probably become a 20-plus posting series—resumes tomorrow. Have a blessed evening.


44 posted on 01/17/2008 8:40:46 PM PST by Das Outsider ("Fools are paramount in politics..."--Kenneth Minogue)
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To: Das Outsider; Mrs. Don-o; ALPAPilot; eleni121; wagglebee; Pelham; LiteKeeper; Past Your Eyes; ...

OK DO KEY... I’m comin’ in!

OLD TESTAMENT
“The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both
parties. They have committed a detestable act and
are guilty of a capital offense.”
(Leviticus 20:13)

NEW TESTAMENT
“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit
the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither
the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers
nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.”
(ICorinthians 6:9)

JO TESTAMENT
I have gay Christian friends who live normal hetero
lives. Though tempted, they choose not to “practice”
homosexuality. They live out a Godly life relying on
God (what a concept) to help them resist the temptation
to act out.

We are all flesh and Spirit and we all have weaknesses.
Though, not all of us have the weakness oF homosexuality.
Some have the weakness of murder, or drugs, or anger,
or gossip. For all of these things we must practice
self control through the power of the Holy Spirit.
My next point is touchy.

Of the men I know who admitedly struggle with
homosexuality, not surprisingly, many were as
young as four years old when they were molested
by a relative, neighbor, friend or camp counselor.
At the time of the attack, their bodies responded
to sexual stimulation in the way God intended. Being
too young to understand this is normal, they made
this tragic assumption ...

IF ... I was aroused,

THEN ... I must be attracted to men.

THAT ... is a lie from the pit of hell.


45 posted on 01/17/2008 10:14:00 PM PST by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: Das Outsider; Mrs. Don-o; ALPAPilot; eleni121; wagglebee; Pelham; LiteKeeper; Past Your Eyes; ...

It is my humble opinion that homosexuals
are created by other homosexuals.


46 posted on 01/17/2008 10:16:11 PM PST by Jo Nuvark (Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse Israel will be cursed. Gen 12:3)
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To: Jo Nuvark

Dittos, m’Lady.


47 posted on 01/17/2008 10:49:19 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: Jo Nuvark; Mrs. Don-o

Don’t know why I was pinged.

But since you pinged me, I will just point out that your posted English translation failed to address the points brought up by Mrs. Don-o. For example, do you have evidence that “MALOKOIS” AND “ARSENOKOITAI” apply beyond the pagan-temple prostitutes?


48 posted on 01/17/2008 11:39:36 PM PST by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

That was simply pathetic on the malformed writer’s part Mrs. Don-o.

Malakis (Similar to Malkois)for example is still used in modern Greek and it means exactly what it meant “back then”. As well as the writer disqualifies themselves by saying “Well I’m no expert on the Greek Language...but”

Thirdly, the entire webpage is choc a bloc filled with false premises and errant “logic”, the writer would have one believe that the problem wasn’t engaging in such acts, but accepting money for engaging in such behavour...

For all of the issues with Sola, errors such as these do not pass the smell test. It is the work of those who wish to have Faith in Christ and still run ruin with a seared conscience, one that is branded shut..


49 posted on 01/18/2008 3:35:30 AM PST by padre35 (Conservative in Exile/ Isaiah 3.3)
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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