Please Freep Mail me if you'd like on/off
Posted on 01/18/2008 5:25:03 AM PST by alnitak
Shattering all its previous records, the U.S. wind energy industry installed 5,244 megawatts (MW) in 2007, expanding the nation’s total wind power generating capacity by 45% in a single calendar year and injecting an investment of over $9 billion into the economy, the American Wind Energy Association (AWEA) announced today. The new wind projects account for about 30% of the entire new power-producing capacity added nationally in 2007 and will power the equivalent of 1.5 million American households annually while strengthening U.S. energy supply with clean, homegrown electric power.
“This is the third consecutive year of record-setting growth, establishing wind power as one of the largest sources of new electricity supply for the country,” said AWEA Executive Director Randall Swisher. “This remarkable and accelerating growth is driven by strong demand, favorable economics, and a period of welcome relief from the on-again, off-again, boom-and-bust, cycle of the federal production tax credit (PTC) for wind power.”
“But the PTC and tax incentives for other renewable energy sources are now in danger of lapsing at the end of this year—and at the worst moment for the U.S economy,” added Swisher. “The U.S. wind industry calls on Congress and the President to quickly extend the PTC—the only existing U.S. incentive for wind power—in order to sustain this remarkable growth along with the manufacturing jobs, fresh economic opportunities, and reduction of global warming pollution that it provides.”
The U.S. wind power fleet now numbers 16,818 MW and spans 34 states. American wind farms will generate an estimated 48 billion kilowatt-hours (kWh) of wind energy in 2008, just over 1% of U.S. electricity supply, powering the equivalent of over 4.5 million homes.
(Excerpt) Read more at awea.org ...
ping!
That blows.
At what point will this technology pay off and no longer need tax dollars to get it started and prop it up?
law-of-small numbers alert.
< / environut>
Since wind normally supplies about 1/3 of installed capacity due to the unreliability of wind I’m suspicious of the numbers.
Lapse is good. Let alternative energy production techniques live or die on their own merits. For that matter, let standard energy production techniques live or die on their own merits.
So, wind power is nearly $2/watt installed. (Not including maintenance.)
The new wind projects account for about 30% of the entire new power-producing capacity added nationally in 2007
Please remember to thank a greenie for prohibiting the production of most real power plants.
and will power the equivalent of 1.5 million American households annually
Why, that's just $6000 per household, only a few times more than buying each one a small diesel generator.
“This remarkable and accelerating growth is driven by strong demand, favorable economics, and a period of welcome relief from the on-again, off-again, boom-and-bust, cycle of the federal production tax credit (PTC) for wind power.”
In other words, it can't be done without subsidies.
“But the PTC and tax incentives for other renewable energy sources are now in danger of lapsing at the end of this year—and at the worst moment for the U.S economy,” added Swisher. “The U.S. wind industry calls on Congress and the President to quickly extend the PTC—the only existing U.S. incentive for wind power—in order to sustain this remarkable growth along with the manufacturing jobs, fresh economic opportunities, and reduction of global warming pollution that it provides.”
Hey dude, if it were a net economic benefit, you wouldn't need coercive and involuntary subsidies. The money that fills your trough comes away from things people would rather spend their money on, which is to say, would provide greater economic benefit to them if they could only choose to spend it that way.
Won’t be much longer before we are told wind mills are stripping so much energy out of the winds across the plains that the weather is being negatively impacted!
We are DOOMED! DOOMED!
Only the ones too stupid to fly around.
Darwin effect.
... and really tall basketball players ... windmills hate really tall basketball players.
And I know how we could double the amount of wind energy in 2008.
Set wind turbines up in rings around Washington D.C. and the state capitol cities. Whether the the politicians there are full of hot air, or the laws they pass are so bad that it sucks, there will be enough airflow to match what is already being used in today’s turbines.
My guess would be that we'll never find out. Tax incentives are just another form of welfare, and once they start, they're nearly impossible to end.
He showed YOU COMMONERS what Green Power Wa$!
The article stated capacity, which as you note is significantly different than generation. Your 33% capacity factor is optimistic. I think the industry average is in the range of 25-30%. Which is weird because if any other form of capacity produced in that range there’d be calls for whoever planned it to be sacked on the spot.
LOL! That was claimed yesterday on FR.
“At what point will this technology pay off and no longer need tax dollars to get it started and prop it up?”
Solar power as well as any power that can be generated by water is probably a good thing. It’s a resource that is forever.
When I living in South Dakota, students at the school of Mines & Tech created an engine that got over 100 miles per gallon. The newspapers heralded it as a major breakthrough.
A couple of weeks later the engine was gone and the students were not talking. The press didn’t say a thing.
The only way in our lifetimes will we see anything other then the combustion engine is when environmentalists and business sit down together to discuss how we can best do this. Where business can continue to make the profits they are used to and the environment gets cleaner.
Really, there is no incentive for business to do it with the mandated government regulations that prohibit businesses from investment in these energy sources.
Wonder how much that cost to put in and save 1% on our usage?
They didn't want to admit they had been fooled again.
Let's be fair in stating that the PTC is a tax credit. These aren't checks being handed out. This is tax credit of 1.9 cents per kwh -- simply money the govt is not collecting, which is fine with me. I'd rather the money stay in the hands of private developers and manufacturers than go to DC. And although coal and nukes are critically important and I support both, let's not fool ourselves into thinking those industries don't get MUCH more government benefits than wind energy. (How about multi-billion dollar govt insurance guarantees for nuke plants for starters)
Please Freep Mail me if you'd like on/off
What new coal plant is getting government benefit besides increased expenses and regulation?
Do you have a source link for this?
Soon the whole country can look like the Amish farmlands. Each neighborhood will have its own phalanx of windmills. Anything that screws the OPECkers is a winner to me. Realistically, we need a massive rebirth of nuclear power. Japan & France can do it; so can we. Japan is the only country to have actually been nuked and their willing to employ nuclear power. What excuse can we have for being afraid of it?
If you want to be fair, admit a tax credit is a market distortion just as a subsidy is. It’s an indirect subsidy, but it can make an otherwise unprofitable enterprise profitable, if all its customers don’t have to pay some taxes.
Government help on insurance costs for nukes is merely a fix for a government problem, that of over-regulation. The government has never taken the bully pulpit and explained to a hysterical public how safe nuclear power really is, and why Chernobyl could never happen here. (Three Mile Island was a huge disaster, but there were zero fatalities - something that can’t be said for coal, oil, gas, solar, wind plant “huge disasters.”) But they don’t, they just subsidize the outrageous insurance rates that they are partly responsible for the high price of.
Well, for one thing, there's plenty of coal operators who wash a pile of coal and get a big subsidy for creating "clean coal". Just google "clean coal subsidy"
And this isn't all as tax credits the PTC. There's huge pork checks being handed out in this program.
Say what? If students at one school can be brilliant and invent something, surely students in another school can do the same, your conspiracy theories notwithstanding.
Another claim : “injected 9 billion into the economy”.
No, it didn’t. You were subsidized by the taxpayer. You “injected” NOTHING into the economy.
“Do you have a source link for this?”
This is 27 years ago. I was stationed at Ellsworth.
The laws of thermodynamics dictate that whatever energy you extract, well, you do extract.
Now, whether (weather) that has a measurable impact on the energy in weather systems...
Excellent point (along with your other observations).
Just follow the money, and the "green power" is a joke; simply costing taxpayers subsidy money to bring power to certain areas where the landscape becomes a propeller nightmare, and the cost to produce semi-reliable power is five or six times the cost of similar "old" technology like Nuclear power.
Between carbon trade/cap futures, alternative energy "solutions", etc., we are being duped into taxpayer oblivion....
Sounds like one of those “cars that run on water” stories.
My nuke E prof (who worked on the Manhattan Project) in college took one look at a picture of Chernobyl and said - "that's not a power plant, that's a bomb factory".
Something about being able to access the reactor while it was running.
“Say what? If students at one school can be brilliant and invent something, surely students in another school can do the same, your conspiracy theories notwithstanding.”
I was not inferring that there was a conspiracy theory. Products are bought by companies all the time and buried. What I was saying was that there was great fanfare about this and then it just died.
Think about it. We hear all the time about all these great inventions. Are we to believe that in almost 30 years there hasn’t been an engine that can run at 100+ miles per gallon?
How come they are not in our vehicles?
I understand there is government funding for pilot plants of new technologies of clean coal. I was mistaken in not counting that. But I don’t find funding for ongoing operations of washing coal. Can you help direct me to some info besides unsupported claims by bloggers?
BZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTTT....wrong.
The collecting to pay for OTHER entitlement programs is picked up by the taxpayer. It's simple wealth re-distribution at taxpayer expense, where a lobbyist interest gains a "credit" (which means THEY don't get taxed), but to fund this shortfall, taxpayers get gouged somewhere else.
Follow the money, and EVERY sudsidy is a payoff, no different than the Global Warming scare to provide interests with a Carbon Cap+Trade market, stadiums to be built/subsidized by tax incentives, businesses to be located with tax breaks, etc. In EVERY case, their burden on infrastructure, their lack of contribuiton to taxes that would be used for tax-based entitlement programs, etc. is offset by taxpayer raping.
South Dakota is supposed to be the Saudi Arabia of wind energy and these monsters fill the landscape in man areas. Two problems: First the cost of electricity generated by windmills is about 4 times more per kilowatt that electricity produced in nuclear plants and almost twice as expensive as electricity produced by coal plants. Second even if every inch of space in this state were covered in windmills they wouldn’t produce but a fraction of our current electric needs.
A couple of weeks later the engine was gone and the students were not talking. The press didn’t say a thing."
Yep, years ago a guy I know was getting about 60 mpg from his new diesel truck.
He stopped talking about it after his buddies stopped adding fuel to his tank.
Such a vehicle would be a toy, not move people safely and timely. Physics of energy contained in gasoline and the energy required to move mass in while overcoming friction, drag and the Carnot limits of a heat engine do not go away.
Do you think China or Russia would care about who bought up the patents to gain such ability?
Repeating lies over and over do not make them true. But the do sell magazines to gullible with stories of Bigfoot & UFO's.
Not following the logic here. Just because a wind developer pays less tax doesn't mean somebody else necessarily pays more. You're arguing that $1 less sent to the US treasury means somebody else is charged some incremental $1 somewhere else?
When Bush lowered your tax rate, let's call it a tax credit on the revenue of "traditional1, inc.", did somebody else get charged more?
And that Altamont pass photo is very disingenuous — modern wind farms look nothing like that monstrosity.
Well think about it... do you think if these engines were in Fords, Chevies, and Dodges they might suddenly make more money than Toyota? Now why wouldn’t someone want to do that? Further, some Saudi Sheik isn’t going to care. There’s plenty of ways to burn oil. Besides all he has to do is cut production, reduce supply and make the same amount if not more money.
This is just sad. They just completed a huge highly enriched uranium storage facility over here in Oak Ridge. Most of the uranium came dismantled weapons from the former Russian states and the US. It's not too hard to down blend the enriched uranium into fuel for power plants rather than spending $Billions to store it.
Nuclear is the only proven technology we could use to rapidly decrease our dependence on oil and avoid eventual energy rationing and/or sharp decreases in standards of living.
1. No containment structure.
2. Positive power feedback coefficient of reactivity in certain operating regimes (which is what they were in when they had their accident).
LWR technology as deployed in the West has neither of these shortcomings.
At what point will tax breaks and subsidies be equal for innovations within the oil business so that the pursuit of “alternative” energy stops getting in the way of the actual solutions in front of us?
How can we win the war by subsidizing boondoggles that are only a small part of the solution if that? How long can effectively spend hundreds of millions subsidizing boondoggles that only block the solutions?
Isn’t this the very definition of Washington subsidiaing and not solving the problem and yet we don’t hear a single candidate speaking of it.
You'll get no argument from me we need to rapidly expand nukes and oil development. But the govt doesn't "spend" hundreds of millions on wind energy -- wit doesn't "collect" the money. (see #21).
You know how us conservatives go nuts when liberals call a tax cut a "cost"? Or when the rate of growth in a govt agency budget is slowed it's called a "cut".
Well, let's all please use proper terminology here in the case of what the PTC tax credit is.
The Price-Anderson Act establishes the legal framework within which a privately-funded liability pool is established to provide protection against losses on a no-fault basis. No taxpayer dollars are involved. Private companies (utilities, etc.) pay into the pool and fund it. A private company writes the policies.
Buy your nuclear reactor insurance here
Price-Anderson establishes liability limits, but all insurance policies have liability limits. There is a provision for the government guaranteeing losses that exceed the liability pool limit (currently something like $10 billion), but along with that there is provision for Congress to pass legislation that raises the liability for plant owners/operators, with the intent that losses above the liability pool would be ultimately subrogated to the industry. And, between you and me, given the political climate, I have a feeling that if such legislation were required, it would be passed in record time by the Congress.
US government makes every molecule of fuel in every nuclear power plant, and US government invented the processes in the first place, with massive investments over decades. Yet, that’s not a subsidy in your book.
US government built the power lines across most of the country in TVA, Rural Electrification, Bonneville Power Authority. US government makes the waterways that bring the coal to coal fired plants safely navigable. US government subsidizes gas wells with special tax treatment. US government is so thoroughly entrenched in every aspect of the US energy market that the mere notion of a “free market” level playing field for alternative energy is a farce.
Thanks for the detail on it, but there is still a govt guarantee on top of the pool to make it work.
And how many billions of taxpayer dollars went into Yucca Mountain, which is a huge support to the industry?
I very much support Yucca Mountain and rapid development of nuke plants, btw. Just saying people ought not get up in arms that the PTC credit for wind energy is some huge pork check, or something way out of proportion compared to govt support in other areas of the energy industry.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.