Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list
Posted on 01/18/2008 7:40:41 AM PST by NYer
Gainesville, FL (AHN) - Dr. Jack Kevorkian surprised a crowd of over 5,000 people at the University of Florida (UF) Tuesday night when he unleashed an attack on the "made up mythology of religion," and said that while in medical school he never took the Hippocratic Oath.
Kevorkian, 79, spent his time in Gainesville meeting with the UF ACCENT Speakers Bureau and speaking with students at a question-and-answer session ahead of his sold-out speech at the Stephen C. O'Connell Center, Tuesday evening. Throughout the day though, Kevorkian's theme remained focused on the often overlooked 9th Amendment and the "terrible crisis" that is gripping the nation.
Aside from what some students called a "rambling tirade on law," Kevorkian did take some time to address the issue that most had come to hear; physician-assisted suicide. Kevorkian said he disagreed with an Oregon law that mandated a patient must take the suicidal medicine himself. Kevorkian has long maintained that suicide must be treated as a medical procedure, with the direct intervention of a physician, who will make sure there is an immediate and painless death.
"It's got to be a medical service. That's the only way to control it... It must be a medical service, so the obstacle is the [American Medical Association]. All you have to do is declare it to be a medical service, legitimately, and they'll take care of all the rest of it, just like they do with every medical procedure. You can't dictate medical procedures by law; they change all the time; research changes."
"My aim was not to cause death, that's crazy. My aim was to end suffering." Kevorkian cited modern examples of physician-assisted suicides, including the medically-involved deaths of author Mark Twain, psychologist Sigmund Freud and British King George V.
Yet from there, Kevorkian digressed into an attack on Catholic doctors, the Hippocratic oath and religion. Kevorkian said that the Hippocratic oath "wasn't discussed in medical school, and our class never took the oath. It isn't a medical oath; you pledge allegiance to all the gods and goddess, the pagan gods and goddesses of Greeks - what sense is that today?" He added that the Hippocratic oath was the byproduct of a "secret, small Pythagorean sect" that was the only group to oppose the ancient tradition of a physician helping a terminally ill patient end his life.
"The only oath we have, the only ethics we have in medicine are religious ethics" and "religion is nothing more than a made-up mythology [and] the basis of religion is fear."
"A doctor limited by dogma isn't a real physician; he should have been a priest," Kevorkian said. "They think life's sacred... I don't feel sacred, frankly. I've got a life and I don't feel sacred."
Overall, students felt Kevorkian should have spent more time talking about physician-assisted suicide, the issue that brought him to trial five times in the 1990's and finally led to his conviction in 1999. "It's good to hear his point of view," UF undergraduate student Kristen Perry said. "I don't know if i would go so far as to say that euthanasia should be legalized, but I think if it is, he's definitely right about how we should go about doing it."
Another issue ahead of the speech was protests. While local activist groups like the UF on-campus branch of the Pro Life Alliance organization claimed almost a hundred demonstrators would show up, AHN found a meager handful of bused-in retirees and high school students on hand for the event. A graphic banner equating abortion to physician-assisted suicide was silently put up while bland signs saying "DEATH isn't welcome here" were handed out to a handful of demonstrators who braved 40-degree weather to get their message out.
Bobby Schindler, brother of the late Terri Schiavo, was also scheduled to make an appearance amid the tight security the university arranged for the event. However, despite starting a petition to persuade UF to rescind its offer to Kevorkian and speaking out against the speech to several pro-life groups, Schindler was an inexplicable no-show on Tuesday.
Local and university police were on hand, but the protesters gathered without even a chant and went largely unnoticed by a sold-out crowd that began lining up hours before the event. In the end, it was Kevorkian's radical comments on race, religion and the state of the Union that became the bombshell.
So much for the Left's most recent strategy of attack on the Death Penalty.
Kevorkian, 79,..."
Mr. KeCORPSEian might consider the fact that he has very few years left before he must stand before this so-called "FAKE" God we peoons all worship in blind ignorance...
Hope he's ready...
Kevorkian, 79,..."
Mr. KeCORPSEian might consider the fact that he has very few years left before he must stand before this so-called "FAKE" God we peons all worship in blind ignorance...
Hope he's ready...
sorry for the double post
Twain dropped dead of a heart attack.
George V
George V was murdered. He didn't even consent to Dawson's murdering him and his family was not informed by Dawson that he intended to murder the King.
Until Dawson died and his diaries became public, the royal family believed Dawson's lying tale that the King had succumbed to his illness.
Had Dawson's true actions been known, he would have been justly hung for treason.
Yep, there you have it.
I’d like to see a piano fall out of nowhere and crush this bastard.
His mind is going. Maybe it’s time for the hemlock to do its thing.
“I’d like to see a piano fall out of nowhere and crush this bastard.”
You kidding me? It would miss him since he is so scrawny and gaunt.
He would go right threw a crack unscathed.
He is a spiritually sick man. But the not-so-even-handed write up sure rubbed it in that there was a big crowd with lots of Dr. K sympathizers.
Kevorkian digressed into an attack on Catholic doctors, the Hippocratic oath and religion.
Why do I get the feeling that 'dr' Kevorkian is related to this guy....
Dr. Josef Mengele 
At the least, they must be 2nd cousins.
OK, you choose your physician - Catholic Doctors whose religion tells them all life is a gift from God, or someone nicknamed “Dr. Death.” Hmmmmmm
Dr. Mengele was more of a kindly Dr. Marcus Welby type in manner. Kevorkian seems like Dr. Death even on the outside.
The point is that doctors aspire in bedside manner to be kindly and caring professionals. Dr. Jack aspires to be a ghoul.
True love is shown in the poem “Do not go gentle into that good night”. In which a dying father is asked to fight on even though it is good on the other side. These “quality-of-lifers” say on the other hand, “it troubles me to look upon such suffering so off with you”.
Christians should not fear death but should still fight for that last breath and try to take another. Life has a spiritual value and should not be surrendered lightly.
I could be wrong, but I thought the terms of Kevorkian’s early release were that he wasn’t supposed to murder anyone else, and he wasn’t supposed to run around drumming up support for others to euthanize their fellow citizens.
How sad, he's got a burned out hole where his soul should be.
Jack’s back and just a moronic as ever.
Mr. Kevorkian is the Brian Warner of the medical profession. While Brian plays a celebrity self-name Marilyn Manson and takes glee from causing outrage, so does celebrity known as Dr. Death.
He’s made a cottage industry of himself. Speaking enragements, grotesque paintings, etc. Hope his victims are happy they made him richer by succumbing to his contraption.
I would think that any early release would require some remorse and contrition over what you’d done to get locked up.
My dad was left a large dose of morphine, which my step-sister kept in the fridge. He took a little at a time. However, the entire bottle would have killed him. The hospice nurse came everyday, so the large amount was unnecessary. We all knew why it was there. In fact, I talked about it so that we were not fooling ourselves.
If your religion precludes you from doing this, even faced with debilitating pain, then God be with you, but don't codify your believes and prevent the rest of us from using the option.
Kevorkian is doing a needed service and he has placed himself on the line for it.
Plus all of those gift certificates he has to honor.
The Michigan jury found Kevorkian guilty of second-degree homicide. It was proven that he had directly killed a person because Thomas Youk was not physically able to kill himself. The judge sentenced Kevorkian to serve a 10-25 year prison sentence and told him: “You were on bond to another judge when you committed this offense, you were not licensed to practice medicine when you committed this offense and you hadn’t been licensed for eight years. And you had the audacity to go on national television, show the world what you did and dare the legal system to stop you. Well, sir, consider yourself stopped.”
Has he announced his suicide plans yet?
His killing of all those helpless people was not for humanitarian purposes but rather to satisfy his own sick and twisted curiosity.
Throw him back in prison.
Kevorkian would have it where those who do not really want to die (as in those sad cases in the Netherlands) are pressured into bumping themselves off anyway.
Pain can get out of control but it can still be fought. An intentional fatal dose of morphine is never the solution.
Either way. the facts of the case does not change my position. If you want to address my position and not the facts of the case or the doctor's license, then have at it.
He’s terminal but his is a “quality” life still.
Just refuting your praise of Jack Kevorkian.
The larger issue, is do you believe a person has a right to commit suicide? If not, what punishment should the government enact for your decision?
Some day, the government will not play a role in enforcing whay some consider sins alone, or interfere with someone's personal freedoms on personal issues.
It is not your decision to kill another person who is suffering.
Suicide is against the law in most of the civilized world. The law is gentle when the suicide attempt fails and help is usually given.
The problem occurs when they can't make it, as we have seen in cases recently. Just to create another dissonance for you. If I am the decision maker delegated in an advanced medical directive and I'm asked whether or not to "pull the plug" on another person, who's decision is it to do so?
No one has the “right” to end his own life. That is law and it is morality. If you desire to change the law then you have the right to lobby for it. But you’ll find yourself in strange company.
My father was a neurosurgeon and he had the backbone to speak his mind. He was on the side of the INTRINSIC VALUE of life.
We have examples of how others delegate the decision making. You can characterize the hospital procedures all you want, but it's ending the person's life. And in some cases as explained by a third party. Are you proposing no removal from life sustaining equipment because you have an "intrinsic value"" of life?
If you father doesn't want to participate, he should also have that right. I don't believe doctors should be forced to perform abortions. In fact, I oppose abortions because the victim clearly is not making the decision. But the law let's doctors perform the abortion and end the life.
explained = decided
It appears that what you really want is someone to argue with. Nothing more, nothing less.
The Dr. Death issue was not about one person committing suicide or punching his own ticket or whatever. It was about Dr. Death killing people and calling it a service. That friend, is MURDER.
You inadvertently sent me a copy of your post to weegee.
I guess you really didn’t read my comments or you would address the issue, not that particular case, as I did. Or you can just keep telling me how evil the guy is without addressing the issue of assisted suicide.
Don't act sacred either, do you? More like a worthless POS, to tell you the truth.
There is freedom, then there is license.
There are reasons for stop signs, courts and prisons.
Doing as you please is not freedom...
Doing what you should is.
Maybe someone slept with your daughter who was 12 years of age... why not, she’s a woman now physically; In the old days they were married off that age. Would that make it okay with you? (I know, only if your 12 year old didn’t have a problem). How about a man with your young son... I guess if it were part of his culture and history... why not? How about lack of service for your dad because of what a hospital viewed as sucky insurance... contrasted with that rich guy across the hall. Would that be okay?
Let’s say your father had a better chance of survival if treated vs. the other... any different?
Let’s say we put Groningen Protocol in place here and kill children after birth... maybe even up till 12. I’m sure for the disabled it would be fine for you (they’re such a burden), but what of the poor kids? Is it better for them to be taken out than live in poverty? BTW, three doctors make the decision, the parents don’t have say. But since other physicans agree, i’m sure you wouldn’t have a problem with that either. You would just be the parent is all... we may actually have to pay taxes for your kids care.
How about cloning folks for organs? Hell, how about using inmates organs... who are they anyway (they’ll get to do something positive with their lives for once). Might as well use them for testing too. Nevermind if they’re guilty of whatever crime they were charged with.
What if I helped myself to several items in your home... well the world belongs to everyone in my eyes, and a single person cannot claim land that he didn’t make (Or charge for water thinking about it), who produces soil and water?
Your questions about sex with children are ridiculous and not related to the question at hand.
Your other questions are people doing things to other people without their consent.
I guess you can't relate to the simple straight forward subject at hand, so you have made up situations which are not analogous.
F for logic. B- for nice try.
Jack Kevorkian...the perfect Surgeon General for the Democratic Party.
My father struggled with pulmonary fibrosis for 17 years before he finally died. He was on hospice. He had enough medicine to knock down 10 horses, to include high quantities of morphine and oxycontin (when my mom disposed of the meds after he died, she commented that the street value of the drugs could have her living in luxury for the rest of her life...and provide me a very substantial inheritance). His quality of life, particularly the last five years, was crap. He went through h3ll and put my mom through h3ll.
My dad was not a religious man. In fact, for the last forty years of his life, he had a deep and burning hatred and resentment of all things religious. His greatest disappointment was when I became religious. We worked out an agreement, though, the last several years of his life. He would not rant against my religion if I agreed not to proselytize him. I held to that agreement until the day he died (although I did pray for him without his knowledge).
I cannot picture that his physician prescribed him his pain medication for any reason other than to provide palliative care. His physician, I am certain, recognized that had my dad wanted, he could have overdosed, but that would not have been the motivation for writing the prescriptions. (Physicians typically prescribe a 30-day supply of maintenance drugs, even if the patient could have gotten more frequent refills)
But I could never have imagined discussing the subject of suicide with my father. "Gee, Dad, if you took this bottle at once, you'd be out of pain forever." I can't even imagine bringing the subject up in the context of discouraging it, as I wouldn't want to "plant the idea."
My dad was a lot of things, not all of them good. But one thing he wasn't was a quitter or a wimp. The last three years of his life he had a DNR (do not resuscitate) order. And when it was finally time, he gave up the ghost (and they didn't resuscitate). But for all the years he went through what he went through, I don't think that suicide was even an option on the table for him. Not for religious reasons (as I said earlier, he despised all things religious). Not for some extraordinary strength of character (I rule that out for reasons that I will keep private). But he, for all his flaws, recognized that suicide was not the way to go.
You then stated,
If your religion precludes you from doing this, even faced with debilitating pain, then God be with you, but don't codify your believes and prevent the rest of us from using the option.
My dad had no religious beliefs. He had no joy in his life. He had no hope of heaven. He only knew the pain and the degeneration in his life. Suicide simply wasn't an option.
All people with a degenerative condition are not the same. Most do the right thing and fight until they're worn out and then expire. Religious belief or not. Not all people do what your dad did and took the easy way out. Suicide is the ultimate egocentric act of an egocentric person. You might be able to act high-and-mighty with some, but I went through as much, if not more, with my dad than you did with yours...so don't even try it with me.
And don't ascribe a desire to 'assist' patients into offing themselves to physicians who prescribe high doses of potentially lethal meds. Some may do that. Most don't.
If somebody wants to take his own life, then nobody can stop him. Therefore, he has the freedom to do so. But a society that sanctions that behavior has terminally (no pun intended) turned the corner to its own destruction. If you like that behavior, I suggest that you move to the UK or to the Netherlands (where people are free). God help the US if we ever do so.
If you think that amount of medicine was left there because he needed a month supply of morphine, you are naive.
I pray for the day when the government or dogooders like yourself do not impose a course of action on what I do with my life.
After Schiavo the Euthanasia Society and legal cohorts had legislation waiting to spring on 13 states.
If you saw the CSPAN conference with governors re: insurance costs and social security, you would see where they were going. Cited repeatedly were the huge cost of elderly and disabled, as well as their burden on Social Security and Medicare.
This is a part of the eugenics tree... it has many branches. For us, the Buck decision kicked it off.
I have found many who died in the home... the children come down from CT, NH or elsewhere, just to collect. They hadn’t visited, and could give a damn about their mothers and fathers. This is a different world and God forbid anyone should be inconvenienced.
I feel very sorry for you.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.