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Posted on 01/22/2008 12:50:17 PM PST by BGHater
Strategist says move would show U.S. is committed to Latin America
MIAMI — The Navy is considering restoring the 4th Fleet in the Atlantic Ocean, a bureaucratic change that would raise the prominence of Pentagon maritime activities in Latin America and the Caribbean.
Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, made the disclosure during a visit to the Southern Command last week — calling it "a great idea" that "as far as I know is moving forward."
The move would bring no new vessels to the region but would put Southcom on par administratively with other Pentagon outposts that have large budgets and bigger muscle. For example, the Central Command operates the Fifth Fleet in the Middle East.
It would also restore an institution that sent U.S. Navy ships into southern waters in search of Nazi U-boats. The Navy created the 4th Fleet in 1943 to hunt submarines in the South Atlantic during World War II.
It was disbanded seven years later with naval operations in the region run from Norfolk, Va.
Still in planning stage At the Pentagon, Navy Cmdr. Jeff Davis said no final decision has been made. Mullen said if such an institution were created, it would be worked out between the Navy's top officer, Adm. Gary Roughead, and Adm. James Stavridis, the Southcom commander, who runs the region's U.S. military operations out of South Florida.
In theory, the 4th Fleet would operate out of Mayport, Fla., now a smaller headquarters for Navy South, which coordinates Navy activities in Latin America and the Caribbean for Southcom. It is run by a one-star officer, Rear Adm. James Stevenson. A 4th Fleet would be run by a two- or three-star admiral, and may need congressional approval.
Davis emphasized that no new vessels — and no additional budget — would come with the creation of a 4th Fleet.
Instead, warships from various bases would be assigned to sail in the fleet — in waters stretching from the Caribbean through Central and South America.
'A bigger profile' Military analysts said the establishment of a 4th Fleet admiral could elevate Southcom's prominence in discussions on where ships are deployed — and would surely send a signal to southern neighbors.
"It gives the Navy a bigger profile in the region," said Frank Mora, professor of national security strategy at the National War College in Washington, D.C. "It sends a message to the region that you are important at a time when there is a sense that we don't care."
Moreover, it may also reflect the Navy's increasing commitment to Latin America and the Caribbean at a time when the Pentagon is preoccupied — and when ground forces are focused on Middle East operations.
In recent years, the Southern Command has increasingly relied on the Navy for humanitarian operations.
"Symbolism is something that has some currency," Mora said. "It's a way of compensating for limited resources and funds, perhaps lack of focus in Washington or other things."
Mullen, the top U.S. military officer since October, was at Southcom as part of a five-day trip to the region that includes Colombia and El Salvador.
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I remember a movie, “The Enemy Beneath” if memory serves me right, starring Robert Mitcham, about destroyers and Nazi U-boats in the South Atlantic. I think it must be the only movie ever made about WW2 Naval warfare in that part of the world.
Jacksonville could take any of the carriers with almost no modification needed. Pensacola also used to have a carrier, but more work would probably be needed there. You’d probably have to start from scratch at Charleston. As a practical matter, aircraft based out of Florida and Cuba could probably provide routine air cover for the Carribean, Texas for the western Gulf.
The Pursuit of the Graf Spee, 1956. It is my recollection that one of the British cruisers involved in the battle played itself in the movie.
perhaps this signals a time when a reserve carrier is needed to patrol the area’s of the 4th fleet....perhaps the JFK?
“Another fleet? Well, by God, I love the Navy, but where are the ships coming to come from?”
Yup. The Navy is actually shrinking. Are you telling me we’re gonna canabalize the Atlantic and Pacific fleets with a resurgent Russia and a growing China to be dealt with? Why, so we can take a piss on Hugo Chavez? Come on....
That would be sublime.
“The Enemy Below” benefits from an unconventional performance and writing that makes it stand out from the pack of World War II films produced in the same era.
Robert Mitchum plays the commander of an American destroyer and Curt Jergens as the commander of a German U-boat. They’re stalking each other at sea playing a high stakes game of chess with each man carefully considering each move and countermove. Mitchum’s commander may be a bit layed back compared to some but it’s what keeps his men devoted him to him. Jergens plays his captain as someone who is doing his duty but doesn’t believe in the Nazi cause.
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read more here:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050356/
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HEY HUGO...GET A LOAD OF THIS!
Well, DUH! China, silly!
We “dock” carriers all the time in Mayport, FL. It has been home port for many a fine bird farm including USS Saratoga CVA-60.
No work needed at all Mayport FL has been, is and always will be homeport for US Carriers.
Maybe this link will work, I don’t know...
If it does you will see a Google Earth image
of the Kennedy (CVA/CV-67) docked in Jacksonville.
http://maps.pomocnik.com/satellite-maps/?map=1881
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also, this shot shows 3 unidentified carriers
docked nearly side-by-side up in Norfolk.
http://maps.pomocnik.com/satellite-maps/?map=99
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In the past, they have always been conventionally powered. Some mods might be necessary to accommodate that. Is the navy making any changes Japan in connection with the change of ships there? At one point it was argued that the nuclear ships would have higher pier side electrical requirements, for example and some changes in maintenance facilities. Don't know if that was true or FUD, but it should give a pretty good picture of what, if anything, would need to be done at Jacksonville.
The navy, up through the commander-in-chief, has foolishly put all of the carrier eggs in one basket in the Atlantic. At least the Pacific fleet are spread out to 3 or 4 different home ports.
I know you’re right but its fun to think of them hammering a coastline somewhere. I’ve kept a scrapbook of stuff on the Iowas. They reach back (concept/drawings) to the 1930s...
Besides, the Gulf is a large place to patrol with regards to the WOT and the WOD and illegal immigration.
I'd just figure Ms. Kitty would have some years left in her.
Those Navy pilots (bless their hearts) could easily get their monthly flight hr requirements in and still keep a serious eye on things.
With our sats, coastal surface radars and their eyes in the sky (especially the P3 crews), would help keep tabs on the bad guys.
Back in the late '70's, got to go out on the Enterprise out of Pensi as a closely chaperoned guest with other civies for an overnight float and watch nighttime flight training ops. Those pilots and deck dudes have kahunas made of elements not found in most men.
I’d like to see those ‘under-development’ super sneaky Navy ships they show on the military channel get honed in harassing the drug runners, etc. running around in the Gulf, Cuba, etc.
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