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Real ID and Reality
Campus Report ^ | January 23, 2008 | Amanda Busse

Posted on 01/23/2008 11:49:13 AM PST by bs9021

Real ID and Reality

by: Amanda Busse, January 23, 2008

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has conceded in its battle with state officials to implement secure state-issued driver’s licenses and identification cards as part of the REAL ID Act of 2005. DHS recently announced plans for a 73 percent reduction in the cost of putting the identification system in place, and an $80-million grant to assist in the procedure. The reduction brings costs down from an original estimate of $14.6 billion to $3.9 billion.

The REAL ID laws were a top a recommendation of the 9/11 Commission after investigators found that the hijackers had obtained 17 driver’s licenses and 13 state-issued identification cards in the process of carrying out terrorist actions.

“Terrorists take advantage of the system being blind,” said Janice Kephart, President of 9/11 Security Solutions...

“This is going to make three groups of people unhappy: terrorists, illegal workers, con men and criminals,” said Stewart A. Baker, the Assistant Secretary for Policy at the DHS. The new laws are making others unhappy as well. Because the REAL ID Act does not institute a national identification card, it is left to the states to enforce the new standards. This leaves a large financial burden on state governments...

More than 30 states have taken up bills and resolutions opposing the law and asking Congress to repeal it, or fully fund the mandate. As a result, the deadline for implementation has been pushed back twice.

(Excerpt) Read more at campusreportonline.net ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: barriers; identification; implementation; realid

1 posted on 01/23/2008 11:49:14 AM PST by bs9021
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To: bs9021
“This is going to make three groups of people unhappy: terrorists, illegal workers, con men and criminals,” said Stewart A. Baker, the Assistant Secretary for Policy at the DHS."


How's your math skills?

I counted one group.

Criminals.

2 posted on 01/23/2008 11:57:08 AM PST by G.Mason (And what is intelligence if not the craft of out-thinking our adversaries?)
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To: bs9021
Baker asserted that the Act will not infringe on civil liberties. He confronted privacy concerns by stating that REAL ID will not allow the federal government to gain more access to personal information, and will not create a national database of personal information.

No more information THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE ON YOU. Geez
3 posted on 01/23/2008 12:01:39 PM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: bs9021
Real ID is a perfect example of one of Burnham's Laws,, "Who says A, must say B."

There are lots and lots of folks who get upset about the number of illegals ... and naturally they want to expel them. The problem, of course, is identifying them -- and it's long been obvious that it requires, among other things, a foolproof ID system; i.e., RealID or something very much like it.

What's ironic (and predictable), is that you'll find folks screaming bloody murder about both of these things -- they want to get rid of illegals, and they're opposed to RealID.

What it really suggests, is that folks are not thinking things through sufficiently.

4 posted on 01/23/2008 12:15:47 PM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb
"There are lots and lots of folks who get upset about the number of illegals ... and naturally they want to expel them. The problem, of course, is identifying them -- and it's long been obvious that it requires, among other things, a foolproof ID system; i.e., RealID or something very much like it."

Malarkey. All that is needed is to have employers check social security numbers, have ICE follow up on the discrepancies, and deport the ones found to be illegal. Putting the biometric ID data of every human body in the USA on a central computer in Washington, DC, is NOT needed to accomplish the illegal alien problem.

5 posted on 01/23/2008 12:36:16 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Rick.Donaldson
"No more information THAN THEY ALREADY HAVE ON YOU. Geez"

Wrong. The goal is to eventually have the biometric ID data of every human body in the USA on that computer. If you don't think that is dangerous, then you're an idiot of the first order.

6 posted on 01/23/2008 12:37:56 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog
All that is needed is to have employers check social security numbers, have ICE follow up on the discrepancies, and deport the ones found to be illegal.

LOL! Yeah, that's "all." You need to think it through a bit more. Start with this: how is the employer going to be able to verify that the valid SSN he was handed, corresponds to the person who handed it to him?

Hint: biometrics, name , address, and so on. That differs from RealID ... how?

7 posted on 01/23/2008 1:08:34 PM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb
It is true that if the 'er gets a card saying "Ivan Ivanovich" and when he sends the number to DC, it either comes back "No Such person" (or "Mary Smith" who died at age 10), then he, or ICE should boot the fellow.

The bug is, for those who don't think the gov't is infallible, that when "Wayne Wilson" (US Citizen) sends in his card, and the computer can't find him, and HE's booted.

I don't know how often that will happen, but for those who want the gov't computer to be the omniscient decider, you have to contend with those who think it will.

8 posted on 01/23/2008 1:27:21 PM PST by BohDaThone
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To: BohDaThone

The other side ... suppose a person supplies a valid SSN. What would tell the employer that he needs to contact ICE?


9 posted on 01/23/2008 1:36:32 PM PST by r9etb
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To: r9etb
well, if it"s "valid" but in another name, that's a tip-off. You are correct that if it is "valid" and in the same name, then either he has gotten phony ID in the name of the same person as his number (possible), or he has gotten the SSN of someone with the smae name (also possible).

Down the road, if SS notices wages being paid the same week on the same number in Dallas and Miami, they could become suspicious. It's all a matter of resources v. results, and there are lots of ways to calculate it. But the posters who say that there is SOME correlation between greater enforceability of immigration status and greater pervasiveness and security of ID are exactly right. So that's also a trade off. Some people seem to want to believe that you can have 100% of both -- ID of illegals and no ID of citizens. Can't be done.

10 posted on 01/23/2008 5:46:32 PM PST by BohDaThone
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To: BohDaThone

Thanks for the well-reasoned discussion....


11 posted on 01/23/2008 7:45:05 PM PST by r9etb
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