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Arizona Law Takes a Toll on Nonresident Students
New York Times ^ | 1/27/08 | Jesse McKinley

Posted on 01/27/2008 10:16:06 AM PST by Knutsdatter

PHOENIX — When Marco Carrillo, went to meet with his college counselor, her major worry about his future had little to do with his SAT scores or essay or extracurricular activities. It had to do with his citizenship. Such questions have become commonplace in Arizona, where voters passed a 2006 referendum, Proposition 300, that forbids college students who cannot prove they are legal residents from receiving state financial assistance. The law does not forbid nonlegal residents from attending college or require colleges to report them to the authorities. . . .supporters said the law would save the state millions of dollars and provide a powerful disincentive to prospective border-jumpers. State Representative John Kavanagh, a Republican from Fountain Hills, east of Phoenix [said] “Denying the in-state tuition, besides being fair to residents, also deters illegal immigrants from coming here.” [Teresa Guerra said] “A lot of people I’ve grown up with have gone through that whole thing. They’re raised in the American educational system, and now they have no future. These are people who have basically lived in America their whole lives, know nothing else, and now their shot at the American dream is gone.” Representative Kavanagh said the law’s intent was not to rob young, assimilated Mexicans of the opportunity to go to college, but merely to try to tame a problem Washington had not solved. “I would be more than happy to take care of those kids who came here at a young age — they are as American as my kids and would be totally lost if they were deported,” he said, challenging Democrats in Arizona to draft a bill that “doesn’t have amnesty attached to it.” Mr. Carrillo, the Arizona State student, said he knew of several nonlegal residents considering returning to Mexico for college.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: illegalaliens; instatetuition
"Nonresident"? Now the NYT stoops to being totally inaccurate in order to avoid writing "illegal". They ARE residents. The whole problem is that they are residents.

Earth to Representative Kavanagh: giving them reduced tuition just postpones the inevitable. Even if they get a degree, they are still illegal and, thus, unemployable. The sooner they repatriate the better, for them and for us. And they will not be "totally lost". They will have a K-12 U.S. education, putting them head and shoulders above almost everyone in their native country.

1 posted on 01/27/2008 10:16:08 AM PST by Knutsdatter
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To: BufordP

From the “Booooooo Hooooooo!!!!” department.

I’m surprised that Governess Napolitano hasn’t torpedoed this yet. The state legislature is going to try to.


2 posted on 01/27/2008 10:19:54 AM PST by nerdwithamachinegun (All generalizations are wrong.)
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To: Knutsdatter

“Representative Kavanagh said the law’s intent was not to rob young, assimilated Mexicans of the opportunity to go to college, but merely to try to tame a problem Washington had not solved.

“I would be more than happy to take care of those kids who came here at a young age — they are as American as my kids and would be totally lost if they were deported,” he said, challenging Democrats in Arizona to draft a bill that “doesn’t have amnesty attached to it.”


3 posted on 01/27/2008 10:20:42 AM PST by M. Dodge Thomas (Opinion based on research by an eyewear firm, which surveyed 100 members of a speed dating club.)
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To: Knutsdatter
“Arizona has been overwhelmed with illegal immigration and all the negative things that follow — crime, increased public service costs, especially education, and depression of our wages — and the federal government seems barely capable of doing much,” said State Representative John Kavanagh, a Republican from Fountain Hills, east of Phoenix. “Denying the in-state tuition, besides being fair to residents, also deters illegal immigrants from coming here.”

Here's the important part.

4 posted on 01/27/2008 10:23:12 AM PST by donna ("We can create Kingdom on earth" - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Knutsdatter
“A lot of people I’ve grown up with have gone through that whole thing. They’re raised in the American educational system, and now they have no future. These are people who have basically lived in America their whole lives, know nothing else, and now their shot at the American dream is gone.”

If you are an illegally present foreign national, you are considered a non-resident, irrespective of where you live, and subject to out-of-state tuition rates. Additionally, since you are neither a U.S. citizen nor a permanent resident, you are ineligible for Federal, state, and institutional financial assistance, as you are classified as an international student.

Giving illegals access to financial aid is tantamount to legally-sanctioned discrimination against legally present international students.

5 posted on 01/27/2008 10:23:40 AM PST by rabscuttle385 (Admin Moderator for President.)
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To: M. Dodge Thomas

Deport them. They are breaking the law.


6 posted on 01/27/2008 10:25:12 AM PST by donna ("We can create Kingdom on earth" - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Knutsdatter
Now.................

I hope the following 14 reasons are read so many times that the readers get sick of reading them. I have included the URL’s for verification of the following facts.

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border.

Homeland Security Report
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf

12. The National Policy Institute, ‘estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.’
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. ‘The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States’.
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals

The total cost is a whooping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR !

7 posted on 01/27/2008 10:26:47 AM PST by B4Ranch (( "Freedom is not free, but don't worry the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share." ))
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To: Knutsdatter

“Mr. Carrillo, the Arizona State student, said he knew of several nonlegal residents considering returning to Mexico for college.”

Perfect.


8 posted on 01/27/2008 10:29:01 AM PST by Magic Fingers
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To: donna

The real crime here is that we have so little respect for the law that we allow illegals to go to school. Just try to register your kid outside your own district.
This personal trajedy has been brought to you by the people who won’t enforce our borders and won’t allow schools to deny illegals enrollment.
The sooner we stop all that..the soone there’ll be no more stories like this.


9 posted on 01/27/2008 10:29:06 AM PST by Oldexpat
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To: Oldexpat

It comes from the federal judges.


10 posted on 01/27/2008 10:31:22 AM PST by donna ("We can create Kingdom on earth" - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: rabscuttle385

As an Arizonian, the intent of the bill was excactly that: No undocumented immigrant should get tax payer support to fund their higher education. It’s bad enought that my state is forced to provide mult-language specialists to teach these kids english, provide free education thru 12th grade,etc. This is no different than what an out of state student would pay.
The only way to stop the invasion is to turn off the spiggot of benefits illegals come here to get.


11 posted on 01/27/2008 10:32:12 AM PST by boilinghot
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To: donna

>>Mr. Carrillo, the Arizona State student, said he knew of several nonlegal residents considering returning to Mexico for college.

“It’s expensive going to school in Mexico over there because there’s no such thing as financial aid,” he said. “You pretty much have to scrape it. But at least you’re not worried that you’re going to get deported.”<<


12 posted on 01/27/2008 10:33:50 AM PST by B4Ranch (( "Freedom is not free, but don't worry the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share." ))
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To: Knutsdatter
These are people who have basically lived in America their whole lives, know nothing else, and now their shot at the American dream is gone....

They "have basically lived" in America their whole lives which means they were not born here and are citizens of another country.

They say "now their shot at the American dream is gone". The American dream is still there but as the saying goes, it's for Americans and since you were neither born here nor are an American citizen, you can't claim a right to that dream any more than billions of other people on this earth that are not Americans or here legally with our approval.

13 posted on 01/27/2008 10:34:32 AM PST by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: Knutsdatter
Officials at the University of Arizona in Tucson said that some of the 200 to 300 dropouts from last fall were also illegal immigrants. Pima Community College, estimated that as many as 1,000 students may have been affected by the law.

More than enrollment declines, however, what worries some educators here is that nonlegal residents — some of whom have lived in the United States since infancy and attended American high schools — will be afraid to pursue any form of higher education.

“The most frightening thing about the policy in place isn’t necessarily its measurable effect, it’s the immeasurable effect,” said Paul R. Kohn, the vice provost for enrollment management and dean of admission at the University of Arizona.

“It’s likely that there are hundreds of high school senior or college-age students whose plans for college have been compromised,” Dr. Kohn said. “And it’s likely there are thousands in K-12 who will no longer make those plans because the cost of university is now out of reach or they fear deportation if they attempt to attend school.”

>



And..........

Go back to Mexico and attend College there! Then you can achieve the 'Mexican Dream'.

14 posted on 01/27/2008 10:36:16 AM PST by Condor51 (I wouldn't vote for Rooty under any circumstance -- even if Waterboarded!)
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To: Knutsdatter
“now they have no future...now their shot at the American dream is gone.”

I guess all the people from my high school who told me they paid out-of-state tuition when they went to college in another state were lying to me. Apparently it is actually impossible to do that.

15 posted on 01/27/2008 10:46:21 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: Magic Fingers

Exactly. They SHOULD go back to Mexico for college. If anything, being educated in the U.S. will maybe help them improve the economic situation in Mexico, and will, in turn, make it less attractive for others to flood the U.S. That’s not uncompassionate, it’s actually a good thing......for Mexico.


16 posted on 01/27/2008 10:51:23 AM PST by VegasBaby (<---Just one of many who refuses to vote for McCain or Huckabee under any circumstance)
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To: Magic Fingers

My thoughts exactly. Attend college in Mexico and then stay there and try to improve that POS country so everyones main desire is not to flee it.


17 posted on 01/27/2008 10:56:21 AM PST by SledgeCS (A pacifist destroys his weapons and welcomes a non-pacifist into his home - to have it destroyed.)
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To: Knutsdatter

They are ILLEGAL RESIDENTS. If they want a cheap college education, let them go to Mexico. They teach good! Otherwise they can pay OOS tuition and still be illegal ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL ILLEGAL


18 posted on 01/27/2008 10:56:25 AM PST by dbacks (Taglines for sale or rent.)
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To: Knutsdatter
This whole subject is stupid. It's stupid because we can all easily see that the working citizens of this country can no longer afford the education, welfare payments, and free medical that we are currently providing for illegals.
It's that simple. The illegals are bankrupting our governments at all levels and yet we have to listen to the whiners and zealots who ignore the realities of simple math.
Ca faces a 14 Billion dollar short fall in the next two years. If we passed a law like AZ did and then enforce it we would save more than the 14 Billion dollars over the next tow years.
Amazing isn't it? Look at the numbers on the cost side of the issue. The presence of the illegals is costing every working American a mint!!!!!
It's time for America to be for Americans!!!!!!
19 posted on 01/27/2008 10:58:02 AM PST by oldenuff2no
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To: All

Who needs a college education to learn how to do the jobs Americans won’t do?


20 posted on 01/27/2008 10:59:25 AM PST by pallis
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To: Knutsdatter

I, as a nonresident of Arizona, although a citizen of the USA and taxpayer all my life, would not be able to receive instate tuition or state aid for education from Arizona. Yet there is an argument as to why an illegal who is NOT a citizen of this country is barred from receiving the same?
This is just ludicrous. Thats how insane this country has become.


21 posted on 01/27/2008 11:12:31 AM PST by donnab (don't blame me ...I supported Fred.)
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To: rabscuttle385

< Additionally, since you are neither a U.S. citizen nor a permanent resident, you are ineligible for Federal, state, and institutional financial assistance, as you are classified as an international student. >

When I earned my degrees, the Universities I attended had a separate rate for foreign students which were greatly higher than the out of state tuition.

Since these people are NOT US citizens, they should be made to pay the foreign rates, not just the out of state rates.


22 posted on 01/27/2008 12:10:01 PM PST by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: Knutsdatter
Mr. Carrillo, the Arizona State student, said he knew of several nonlegal residents considering returning to Mexico for college.

“It’s expensive going to school in Mexico over there because there’s no such thing as financial aid,” he said. “You pretty much have to scrape it. But at least you’re not worried that you’re going to get deported.”

Wow. Fancy that. In Mexico there is no free ride. So they come here to suck off the American teat to put their ass thru college.

23 posted on 01/27/2008 12:13:25 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (Benedict Arnold was against the Terrorist Surveillance Program)
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To: B4Ranch

bump


24 posted on 01/27/2008 12:45:51 PM PST by B.O. Plenty (Give war a chance......)
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To: Knutsdatter
“A lot of people I’ve grown up with have gone through that whole thing. They’re raised in the American educational system, and now they have no future. These are people who have basically lived in America their whole lives, know nothing else, and now their shot at the American dream is gone.”

If they are not in the country legally, how can they expect to have a job upon graduation? Why educate them if they are unemployable???????

25 posted on 01/27/2008 12:51:48 PM PST by Cowboy Bob (Real men don't vote Democrat.)
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To: nerdwithamachinegun
You think after McCain drops out of the Republican primary he should run for Governor? I heard he "gets it" now.
26 posted on 01/27/2008 2:50:33 PM PST by BufordP (Had Mexicans flown planes into the World Trade Center, Jorge Bush would have surrendered.)
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To: BufordP

I hate to say it but I think Nappy is a better governess than The McCainiac would be.

He’d probably get elected. The only McCainiac supporters I’ve met have been old retired military guys that just mumble “pow, war hero” and refuse to acknowledge that the guy is Hillary with fewer wrinkles.


27 posted on 01/27/2008 3:14:39 PM PST by nerdwithamachinegun (All generalizations are wrong.)
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To: OldMissileer
Since these people are NOT US citizens, they should be made to pay the foreign rates, not just the out of state rates.

The University that I attend has no such extra rate, but foreign students are ineligible for financial aid (including loans) and must jump through more hoops than other out-of-state students, including proving that they have financial support to the tune of tens of thousands a year.

28 posted on 01/27/2008 6:34:13 PM PST by rabscuttle385 (Admin Moderator for President.)
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To: Knutsdatter

Heck, I’m against taxpayer-funded “in-state” tuition for actual, legal residents. I’m strongly against illegals getting yet another benefit as well. They can go to college back in their home country.


29 posted on 01/27/2008 6:52:10 PM PST by meyer (Illegal Immigration - The profits are privatized, the costs are socialized.)
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To: B4Ranch

Thanks for the handy list! I have printed out so many “costs” pages, but they have gotten lost in the stack. Will try to keep track of this one. Can use it when replying to the lies and misrepresentations and omissions in the editorial in the NY Times last Friday (One Argument, 12 Million Holes 1/18/08).


30 posted on 01/28/2008 2:34:13 AM PST by Knutsdatter
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